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Goodbye Jesus

A Simple Method To Prove The Bible Is Not Inspired By A God


EdwardAbbey

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So I asked you to explain to me what kind of a god would be satiated by ordering the stoning and burning of little kids.

 

Simple question.

 

That's easy - the one true god! :pyth:

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I am in a forum inhabited by people resentful towards their parents wrongful upbringing and those who never believed for one reason or another.

 

:Hmm:

 

My parents taught me to do my own thinking, not simply accept what was fed to me. Sure we disagree on some things. My dad is fine with where I'm at, Mom is somewhat spiritual...but it's very much a "just in case" kind of way (though I respect her too much to tell her that). We occasionally get into discussions in which I disagree......and if things get too heated (and they sometimes do), by the next day we've had time to appreciate each other's point of view.

 

Now....a little background. My father is a Vietnam vet, 3 purple hearts, NEVER victimized by Post Traumatic Stress (he thinks it's a load of hooey, and that anyone who came out screwy....went IN a little screwy), worked two jobs, one full-time for 30 years, one part-time for 18 (his "fun" job), and during part of the year would also take on a third job as his wife's employee so he could see her more. A greater man I will NEVER meet.

 

My mother took jobs that would allow her to spend as much time with me as possible, or allow her to bring me to work with her. She had me reading alone before I was four. I was able to answer a telephone without sounding like an ignorant ass before I was six.

 

My parents have been married 40 years as of November. We celebrated by taking a month long tour of Southern Europe. And we toasted the day itself in Florence Italy. In no way did they pay any part of my trip. I paid it. I offered to pay for theirs too, but no-way (I at least managed to snag the check for their anniversary dinner though....ha!).

 

I'm college educated and solidly employed.

 

Now the REASON I've laid this out for you TheListener.........

 

According to most so-called "experts", I am supposed to be a criminally minded substance abuser because I'm adopted. I'm supposed to resent my parents for not being my bio-parents, and I'm supposed to blame every ill in my life on not being raised by my genetic contributors. I think this is a load of shit. Unfortunately, much of this thinking has managed to make it's way into popular opinion.

 

In case you hadn't guessed....I REALLY don't like it when people assume based on stereotypes. And you have no business assuming the manner of our familial relationships. Especially when you guess wrongly about them enough to piss me off.

 

If you feel resentful towards your parents....I feel for you. That's a rough road I've been fortunate enough not to have to travel. Please do not generalize further about our upbringings, or our characters. You are not qualified to do so.

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I am in a forum inhabited by people resentful towards their parents wrongful upbringing and those who never believed for one reason or another.

 

Oh shit! I'm in the wrong fucking forum again? Damn!

 

I love my parents, my mother always told me "believe none of what you read and half of what you see". Great advise, and I took it.

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I had a mostly happy homelife when I was growing up. Odd, I love my parents. Resentful? If I am resentful about anything it's that they reaised me Christian.

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Yes. I am as you say.

Then maybe you understand our viewpoint that Christianity is not morally superior.

 

People don't become better people because they become Christian.

 

So that leaves us with a very important question.

 

 

Someone believes in Jesus, but steal, murder and commit sins like judging people, will still go to Heaven, while a person who is morally and ethically correct, doesn't believe in Jesus, and will go to Hell.

 

Is this justice to you?

 

Now we're back to your bank robber and murderer allegories.

 

This is Christianity:

 

The murderers and robbers go free, because they know the bank owner's son. While the innocent passerby on the street get booked by the police for not knowing the bank owner's son.

 

That is not justice, so God is not just and not good. He doesn't behave like the loving God Father, But he behaves like a godfather in the maffia.

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Then maybe you understand our viewpoint that Christianity is not morally superior.

 

People don't become better people because they become Christian.

 

Has anyone ever claimed that? Do you think being a Christian makes you automatically wear a superman cape and give you super powers? Do you think I think I'm better than you because I am a Christian? It is not my work, I can not boast in it.

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I am in a forum inhabited by people resentful towards their parent’s wrongful upbringing and those who never believed for one reason or another.

Just a suggestion here, but perhaps you should do more listening and try living up to your moniker, or maybe change it to TheJudger? I’m not resentful towards my parents at all – where are you getting silly ideas like that?

 

As far as believing goes, I once believed to the point where I was a born-again Christian. Can I get an Amen? I never doubted until I was in college and began to educate myself and was unable to reconcile reason and faith. I became a Deist, because I still believed for one reason or another, I just couldn’t be intellectually honest with myself and stay a Christian.

 

When I was an atheist God was never an issue for me, I didn't even talk about it.

There are all sorts of atheists.

 

Rational Atheists lack belief in God based on logical grounds - from an objective evaluation of the evidence of at hand. These people seek knowledge and facts uncolored by emotional prejudices. Rational Atheism can intellectually defend itself dogmatic theistic claims, and is often compelled to do so due to the reckless pursuits of theists who seek to force their worldview upon others around them.

 

Emotional Atheists aren't really atheists. These people say they lack belief based, but that claim is usually founded on some sort of traumatic personal experience. Typically these people make a conscious rejection of god, but on irrational grounds. These may include people angry at their parents, or maybe people angry over the loss of a loved one. Since these people were never Rational Atheists to begin with, they are susceptible to falling back towards their former theistic belief system

 

Apathetic Atheists lack a belief, but only out of a general lack of interest, and maybe sometimes out intellectual laziness. These people likely have never really sifted through the God question, and claim atheism but often cannot provide cogent supporting reasons. These people are also susceptible to falling for theistic claims, since they have never made an objective evaluation of evidence.

 

There are more iterations of Atheists out there, including combinations of the above, as well as varieties of Rational Atheists (e.g. weak atheists, strong atheists, agnostic atheists, etc.). Some members here are not even atheists. There are Deists, Pagans, etc.

 

That being said, you do us a disservice by lumping everyone here into a generalized category of your own misguided imagining.

 

Tell me Listener, what category of Atheist would you have considered yourself before you became a Christian? I'd be interested in seeing the details...

 

Here you all get together just to bag out Christianity, why?

Here’s a clue - please take careful note of the name of the this site. It is called exchristian.net. :scratch:

Sarcasm aside (for the moment), there are many purposes to this site, but the main purpose of the exchristian.net is a support site for those people who have found Christianity wanting, and realize they can no longer call themselves Christian. This particular section (The Lions Den) that your post was moved to is all about debate, and you’re more likely to see more energetic, uncensored and colorful exchanges here. Since there are lots of reasons ex-Christians have found for leaving Christianity, odds are you will find many of them posted here.

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Then maybe you understand our viewpoint that Christianity is not morally superior.

 

People don't become better people because they become Christian.

 

Has anyone ever claimed that? Do you think being a Christian makes you automatically wear a superman cape and give you super powers? Do you think I think I'm better than you because I am a Christian? It is not my work, I can not boast in it.

I'm really fascinated with how you keep on avoiding the heart of the questions. The question wasn't if there are bad Christians, that was a postulate based on factual observations from your behavior and responses. The question was if you thought it is justified to punish the good man that doesn't believe, while rewarding the bad man that believes?

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Ok, I'll answer that. There is no such thing as a good man. Everyone deserves punishment.

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There is no such thing as a good man. Everyone deserves punishment.

 

I'd say you're half right. No offense listener, and maybe you discussed this before, but if no amount of "man's wisdom" is going to change one iota of what you believe, why are you here?

 

IMOHO,

:thanks:

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Same reason atheists come into Christian forums and discuss issues: curiosity.

 

I'm still waiting for a new argument I haven't heard before in christianforums.

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I'm still waiting for a new argument I haven't heard before in christianforums.

 

Fair enough. Tell you what, I've got one I've never seen fully addressed. If you like it, we can start a new thread perhaps:

 

Is there absolute morality? I would say no, how about you? :shrug:

 

:thanks:

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I'm still waiting for a new argument I haven't heard before in christianforums.

 

Fair enough. Tell you what, I've got one I've never seen fully addressed. If you like it, we can start a new thread perhaps:

 

Is there absolute morality? I would say no, how about you? :shrug:

 

:thanks:

 

 

More than happy to discuss it. Start a new topic and lets have a try. :)

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Has anyone ever claimed that? Do you think being a Christian makes you automatically wear a superman cape and give you super powers? Do you think I think I'm better than you because I am a Christian? It is not my work, I can not boast in it.

 

You supposed to have super powers according to the bible. Supposed to be able to heal people, drink poison, and do miracles greater than Jesus. You have the faith of a mustard seed don't you? Let's see your super powers the bible says you are supposed to have.

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You supposed to have super powers according to the bible. Supposed to be able to heal people, drink poison, and do miracles greater than Jesus. You have the faith of a mustard seed don't you? Let's see your super powers the bible says you are supposed to have.

 

 

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are different for everyone but I have witnessed some extraordinary events through prayer.

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Your not a true christian then if you cant do what the bible says you are able to do. Either that or your book is bullshit. You pick, cant have it both ways.

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...but I have witnessed some extraordinary events through prayer.

Such as?

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Ok, I'll answer that. There is no such thing as a good man. Everyone deserves punishment.

Why? Why does everyone deserve punishment?

 

 

Laying odds on the fact it's going to do with the Apple incident, I'll refute that straight away.

 

Adam and Eve disobeyed God. God himself stated that he would not punish the son for the sins of the father. God stated that we are only resposible for our own wrongdoing.

 

Did I eat the apple? Did you? Your parents? My parents? Simple justice demands that we do not get punished for something we are innocent of, and since God is supposed to be all about justice, he will not punish us for it.

 

 

If you are going to try that line, then you must insist on being punished for every single crime that any of your ancestors commited. Otherwise, you've just commited the fallacy of Special Pleading. (you keep commiting it anyway, but it's time to mention it to you)

 

 

 

But maybe you're going to mention the Sin Nature...?

 

Funny how God was perfectly fine with people doing their best to follow his laws, and not deserve punishment even though no-one could follow all of them, for thousands of years... yet YOU now say that we ALL deserve punishment, whether we follow his laws or not. (his everlasting, perfect laws... which Jesus said we should still follow, so don't try the "but Jesus brought a new covenent" line of baloney)

 

According to God and Jesus, no-one deserves punishment as long as they try to follow Gods laws.

And here's the kicker... as an Atheist, I've managed to break just one of his commandments, and very few of his "minor" laws. Can you say the same? (little hint... since you were a Muslim, you've broken quite a few commandments and a lot of other laws...)

According to God, I'm closer to him than you are! :twitch: (and it's amazing just how many Christians try to prove otherwise and fail)

 

 

So, since I'm closer to God than you, what makes you think you can judge everyone? Especially when that judgement goes against what God declared...

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Your not a true christian then if you cant do what the bible says you are able to do. Either that or your book is bullshit. You pick, cant have it both ways.

 

 

Can't remember the book or verses off the top of my head but Pauls letters make it clear we are a functioning body in Christ, each with his/her unique gift.

 

Nowhere in the New testament does it say "unless you can drink poison you are *not* a Christian. Which appears to be what you are saying.

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Sorry Mark 16 doesn't say antything about Paul. It tell YOU that THOSE signs will follow YOU, unless of course you believe this was not written by Mark, as is already proven.

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15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

 

Does it say ALL these signs will accompany each and every follower?

 

And has those signs not happened at all that you have at least read about?

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Nowhere in the New testament does it say "unless you can drink poison you are *not* a Christian. Which appears to be what you are saying.

Sorry Mark 16 doesn't say antything about Paul. It tell YOU that THOSE signs will follow YOU, unless of course you believe this was not written by Mark, as is already proven.

If, and only if those signs follow you, are you a follower of Christ. If they don't, you aren't.

 

 

I really love it when we know the Bible better than Christians do. :lmao:

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Not to mention that not a single OT prophecy mentions anything about gifts of the spirit or that believers in god would perform any signs, healings, etc.

 

The Old Covenant was different to the new. The new was not fully revealed and still has not yet been completely revealed.

 

Same way the law was not revealed to Abraham. Think about it.

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15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

 

Does it say ALL these signs will accompany each and every follower?

 

And has those signs not happened at all that you have at least read about?

Then YOU don't believe? It says those WHO believe!

 

The Old Covenant was different to the new. The new was not fully revealed and still has not yet been completely revealed.

Scripture please! I thought Paul revealed all the mysteries?

 

Think about it.

I have. YOU don't make sense.

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