crazy-tiger Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." Does it say ALL these signs will accompany each and every follower? And has those signs not happened at all that you have at least read about? Erm... And these signs will accompany those who believe Note that is WILL accompany... not might, but WILL. If you are a believer, then these WILL happen around you. If they don't, then you're not a believer, are you? Are they happening all around you? No? Then you are not a believer... Not to mention that not a single OT prophecy mentions anything about gifts of the spirit or that believers in god would perform any signs, healings, etc. The Old Covenant was different to the new. The new was not fully revealed and still has not yet been completely revealed. Same way the law was not revealed to Abraham. Think about it. You have missed a slight flaw in that... Gods law was PERFECT WHEN IT WAS GIVEN TO MOSES. If there was a need for a New Covenent, then there were parts missing from the "Perfect Law" that God gave to Moses. That, by definition, means that the "perfect Law" given to Moses was not perfect at all! The belief in a New Covenent contradicts the Bible and makes God out to be a liar... You'd better hope that God will forgive people, otherwise you're in for a long, hot bath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Firstly those signs have happened in Acts. Secondly who is to say such things don't happen today? Thirdly God made clear he would make a new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbolt Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Firstly those signs have happened in Acts. Secondly who is to say such things don't happen today? Thirdly God made clear he would make a new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Acts - who knows? Today - definitely NOT. And we have already proven to you that Jeremiah's prophecy failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 How did Jeremiahs prophecy fail? I must have missed that. And how do you know what goes on in the world when you don't even know what goes on behind the counters at your local McDonalds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Firstly those signs have happened in Acts. Secondly who is to say such things don't happen today? Thirdly God made clear he would make a new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Erm... "The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to [d] them, [e] " declares the LORD. 33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." How does that jibe with your statement that "If God were a God that condoned sin and let it go unpunished and let everyone into Heaven then I would NOT follow God." That's EXACTLY what he's going to do, as part of this "New Covenent"... so you'd better stop following him, hadn't you? Game, set and fucking match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 God has always been described as abounding in love, merciful, yet never lets sin go unpunished. Which is *exactly* what He did in Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 How did Jeremiahs prophecy fail? I must have missed that. And how do you know what goes on in the world when you don't even know what goes on behind the counters at your local McDonalds? And we know that someone here will work at their local McDonalds... and since they will know what goes on behind the counter, I guess we should take them seriously. Shit, but this guy's a hoot. Anyone got any mustard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbolt Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 And how do you know what goes on in the world when you don't even know what goes on behind the counters at your local McDonalds? Hahaha - so much for demanding respect! But we could play it YOUR way any day of the week. Just let us know … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 God has always been described as abounding in love, merciful, yet never lets sin go unpunished. Which is *exactly* what He did in Jesus Christ. So, he's going to forget all our sins, and forgive our wickedness... but only AFTER he's punished us? Forgiveness precludes punishment, so he cannot do both. Your logic and language skills leave a lot to be desired... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 God has always been described as abounding in love, merciful, yet never lets sin go unpunished. Which is *exactly* what He did in Jesus Christ. I'm sure the young babies in Egypt and Sodom thought he was loving and merciful..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 God has always been described as abounding in love, merciful, yet never lets sin go unpunished. Which is *exactly* what He did in Jesus Christ. So, he's going to forget all our sins, and forgive our wickedness... but only AFTER he's punished us? Forgiveness precludes punishment, so he cannot do both. Your logic and language skills leave a lot to be desired... Thanks for the personal attack on my language skills. It makes your point much clearer. How did Jeremiahs prophecy fail? I must have missed that. Do churches have bible studies? Are there mission trips? Yes to both, there is still teaching going on saying "Know the Lord". Have Judah and Israel accepted the New Covenant? No. Are there goats skipping over the debris in Iraq from gods destruction? No. There is no New Covenant. If you don't teach, how will people know God? Has the message been preached in Israel? Yes! Have any accepted? Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Has the message been preached in Israel? Yes! Have any accepted? Yes! Just goes to show people still being brainwashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbolt Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If you don't teach, how will people know God? But THAT violates Jeremiah's prophecy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 God has always been described as abounding in love, merciful, yet never lets sin go unpunished. Which is *exactly* what He did in Jesus Christ. So, he's going to forget all our sins, and forgive our wickedness... but only AFTER he's punished us? Forgiveness precludes punishment, so he cannot do both. Your logic and language skills leave a lot to be desired... Thanks for the personal attack on my language skills. It makes your point much clearer. Guess I was right about the logic then... since you didn't moan about it being a personal attack? By the way... when you make posts that contain some very elementary language mistakes, what are we supposed to think? That you have some wonderful language skills? I am telling you that you are making those mistakes. I am letting you know that doing something about it would help you. If you feel that is a personal attack, then so be it. I won't bother trying to help you again. Believe me... your response says an awful lot about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If you don't teach, how will people know God? But THAT violates Jeremiah's prophecy! It certainly does. No need to teach becuase they'll already KNOW. Christians so stupid when it comes to the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 God has always been described as abounding in love, merciful, yet never lets sin go unpunished. Which is *exactly* what He did in Jesus Christ. Hell, you have really learned how to twist words to you fitting. I thought you said you were a baby in Christ, but you seem to have picked up the apologetic dialectics pretty fast! So, God's unconditional love and mercy is conditional after all. Okay! Fine! You be that way, but I can't accept that contradiction. Children that dies in a foreign country, never heard Jesus, will go to Hell. That's fair and just to you, because they never believed. Murderers, robbers, child molesters will go to Heaven because they believe, and that's fair to you. I just don't think that is a just or fair God, or a just and fair religion. That's my opinion, but I can see that you won't change your mind about that. Let me know when the mob demands protection money from you, and you scream that it's unfair, and we will let you know that the mob only behaves like God. And the mob can show mercy and unconditional love too, as long as you only give them money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Ok then, how would say Jeremiahs prophecy should have been fulfilled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poonis Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If the bible is the 'inspired word of god', of what was god inspired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Children that dies in a foreign country, never heard Jesus, will go to Hell. That's fair and just to you, because they never believed. Murderers, robbers, child molesters will go to Heaven because they believe, and that's fair to you. A repentant man will be justified before God. As for those who have never heard about Jesus it is up to God to judge them, not you or me. If the bible is the 'inspired word of god', of what was god inspired? What inspired the inspiration that inspired the inspiration that inspired you to say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Children that dies in a foreign country, never heard Jesus, will go to Hell. That's fair and just to you, because they never believed. Murderers, robbers, child molesters will go to Heaven because they believe, and that's fair to you. A repentant man will be justified before God. As for those who have never heard about Jesus it is up to God to judge them, not you or me. God's already judged them, and they all get into heaven whether they believe or not... You think I'm wrong? "For I will forgive their wickednessand will remember their sins no more." EVERYONE gets into heaven... repentant or not. If the bible is the 'inspired word of god', of what was god inspired? What inspired the inspiration that inspired the inspiration that inspired you to say that? I've worked out who you are... http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warrior...rtfuldodger.htm Any chance you can answer the question instead of dodging around it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Children that dies in a foreign country, never heard Jesus, will go to Hell. That's fair and just to you, because they never believed. Murderers, robbers, child molesters will go to Heaven because they believe, and that's fair to you. A repentant man will be justified before God. As for those who have never heard about Jesus it is up to God to judge them, not you or me. So you do admit there are loopholes in the Bible? And you're avoiding the question. I thought you said you had the answer... Let's say that you have a person in the mountain Mukimuk. He has never heard about Jesus, he dies and will be judged based on his actions. He lived alone, so he has a pretty good chance of getting into heaven. He has never sinned. Let's change history, and let the holy preacher TheListener go to him and tell him about Jesus. Now the mountain person will definitely go to Hell if he refuses to change his faith. So sealed his fate. He's response in that case should be "You turd! You destroyed my chances of going into Heaven. Now I have to become a Christian, only because you told me the story." If he refuses, I'd say the blood of that man would be on the hands of preacher. Because he was the tool that cause this man eternal damnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If God chooses to forgive everyone then so be it. But as I understand it, it will not be that way. Children that dies in a foreign country, never heard Jesus, will go to Hell. That's fair and just to you, because they never believed. Murderers, robbers, child molesters will go to Heaven because they believe, and that's fair to you. A repentant man will be justified before God. As for those who have never heard about Jesus it is up to God to judge them, not you or me. So you do admit there are loopholes in the Bible? And you're avoiding the question. I thought you said you had the answer... Let's say that you have a person in the mountain Mukimuk. He has never heard about Jesus, he dies and will be judged based on his actions. He lived alone, so he has a pretty good chance of getting into heaven. He has never sinned. Let's change history, and let the holy preacher TheListener go to him and tell him about Jesus. Now the mountain person will definitely go to Hell if he refuses to change his faith. So sealed his fate. He's response in that case should be "You turd! You destroyed my chances of going into Heaven. Now I have to become a Christian, only because you told me the story." If he refuses, I'd say the blood of that man would be on the hands of preacher. Because he was the tool that cause this man eternal damnation. Have you ever read the sower of the seeds parable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If God chooses to forgive everyone then so be it. But as I understand it, it will not be that way. Good. You finally admitted to the possibility. Thanks. This thread was about a simple method to prove that the Bible is not inspired by God. So let's get to it. My posit is: The Bible contains man-made ideas and hopes, and nothing that is beyond what the human mind could have invented. There's nothing in there that can be taken as a divine inspiration. Let's hear from you TL, what in the Bible can be an evidence for a divine source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If God chooses to forgive everyone then so be it. But as I understand it, it will not be that way. So, God saying he will forgive everyone means that he won't forgive everyone? Is that really how you understand it? Do you have any idea just how much you are denying God here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If God chooses to forgive everyone then so be it. But as I understand it, it will not be that way. Good. You finally admitted to the possibility. Thanks. This thread was about a simple method to prove that the Bible is not inspired by God. So let's get to it. My posit is: The Bible contains man-made ideas and hopes, and nothing that is beyond what the human mind could have invented. There's nothing in there that can be taken as a divine inspiration. Let's hear from you TL, what in the Bible can be an evidence for a divine source? If I'm not allowed to quote the Bible and you won't consider spiritual experiences and you reject the historical *facts* of the ressurection, then how am I to do this? If God chooses to forgive everyone then so be it. But as I understand it, it will not be that way. So, God saying he will forgive everyone means that he won't forgive everyone? Is that really how you understand it? Do you have any idea just how much you are denying God here? Nope, I'm not the one denying God. God declares he will make a new covenant, forgive peoples sins etc. Does it say everyone will join this covenant? People have the free will to reject God you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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