A Simple Method To Prove The Bible Is Not Inspired By A God

[crazy-tiger]

If God chooses to forgive everyone then so be it. But as I understand it, it will not be that way.

So, God saying he will forgive everyone means that he won't forgive everyone? Is that really how you understand it?

 

 

 

Do you have any idea just how much you are denying God here?

 

Nope, I'm not the one denying God.

 

God declares he will make a new covenant, forgive peoples sins etc. Does it say everyone will join this covenant? People have the free will to reject God you know...

Ho hum...

No longer will a man teach his neighbor,

or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'

because they will all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest,"

declares the LORD.

"For I will forgive their wickedness

and will remember their sins no more."

All will know him, for he will forgive their wickedness and remember their ins no more...

 

All means EVERYONE!

[All Gods Fail]

The Old Covenant was different to the new. The new was not fully revealed and still has not yet been completely revealed.

 

Whaaah? Are you going Mormon on us?

 

The new covenant is poorly thought-out, which is why there's so much confusion about it. The reason for this is that the bible was poorly written by many different people with many different beliefs and agendas. Xtians have been trying to cover up this literary mess for over 2 millennia by coating it with mystical pretensions and spiritual hoohah.

 

When preachers say "We can't know the mind of God", they're covering shit that doesn't make any sense.

 

There are more theological conflicts in the New Testament (sin/salvation, law/faith, prophecy fullfillment, etc.) than in the OT, because...

 

 

 

THEY MADE THIS SHIT UP!

 

 

It's so obvious - they tried to graft Hellenic philosophy and the early Jesus cults onto Judaism and wound up with a mess! It would have been better if they'd just stuck with Mithras - he would've made a better fit, IMO.

[MQTA]

 

 

That being said, you do us a disservice by lumping everyone here into a generalized category of your own misguided imagining.

 

Great explanation of the basic flavors. But, you know what they say about Australians...

 

 

Same reason atheists come into Christian forums and discuss issues: curiosity.

 

I'm still waiting for a new argument I haven't heard before in christianforums.

 

You won't see this posted in CF:

 

The last pages I found was really the icing on the cake.. Paul Tobin's Central Thesis, http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/central.html he researches all the angles and history.

 

I found this site before finding CF: http://www.noreligion.ca/ He wrote a few fascinating essays... the bottom 3 are the ones I first read.

 

From there I found http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ and often use that to reference what chapters and verses people banter about.

 

and then found the site that lead me directly here (CF)... http://www.geocities.com/questioningpage/index.html doubtingmerle's pages.

 

He has a great page on Mental Health, http://www.geocities.com/questioningpage/index.html

 

I found this one about Which 10 commandments? http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm

 

http://www.halexandria.org is a comprehensive site about Sumerian texts and other topics, took me quite a few days to get through it.

 

And, finally, The Other People, that must be my lineage since I fit the test, great reading. Pretty funny. http://www.caw.org/articles/otherpeople.html

 

The Brick Testament. http://www.thebricktestament.com

 

The Jovial Atheist

 

AWESOME! Totally

 

Check out this Letter

 

His online book

 

The first article, Think or Believe

 

Know your atheist

 

POCM, http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/getting_started_pocm.html Pagan Origins of Christian Myth

 

http://lloydwhitling.com/ that has a good Principles page http://lloydwhitling.com/Principles.html

 

Another great site. http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/DarkBibleContents.htm

 

 

and another

 

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html

 

and from http://www.rael.org http://www.rael.org/e107_plugins/raeltv_me....php?4.fast.wmp ties it all together

[SkepticOfBible]

If I'm not allowed to quote the Bible and you won't consider spiritual experiences and you reject the historical *facts* of the ressurection, then how am I to do this?

 

And when Muslims present all three to you about their religion, you reject the outright.

[MQTA]

Firstly those signs have happened in Acts.

 

Secondly who is to say such things don't happen today?

 

Thirdly God made clear he would make a new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

 

 

Jeremiah 31:32 (KJV)

 

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

 

Looks like a bit of a misquote in Hebrews 8:9

 

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

 

 

I guess Paul didn't know (50 years earlier?) of the John Revelation to not change a word, eh?

 

 

 

 

As for 31:31-34....

 

"

 

Clearly this refers to times different from the current times, but note how they are different! It does not say that the Torah will be abdicated, instead it says that the Torah will be put in their inward parts, and "in their hearts I will it" - the "new covenant" will be different from the original not in the sense that the law will be abdicated - on the contrary, it will be different because previously the Jews had the ability to go against the Law, ie, "break the covenant." The "new covenant" - the days of the messiah - Jews will not have the ability to go against the law (the same law, since the word "Torah" is only used in the context of reference to the Pentateuch), since it will be "put into their inward parts".

 

Also note another interesting prophecy - that people will no longer need to go to others saying "Know the L-rd", because everyone will "know the L-rd" and follow the Torah already - but how often do Christians run around telling people "Know the L-rd"? Constantly. They themselves are evidence that Jesus could not have been the real messiah, since this type of behavior will be unnecessary in the days of the messiah, says Jeremiah. Also note that it says that G-d will "forgive their iniquity" - this is not a conditional forgiveness, based on whether or not they accept the messiah, like Christianity would have you think. This is immediate, unqualified forgiveness.

 

"

[SkepticOfBible]

Jeremiah 31:32 (KJV)

 

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

 

Looks like a bit of a misquote in Hebrews 8:9

 

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

 

 

I guess Paul didn't know (50 years earlier?) of the John Revelation to not change a word, eh?

 

 

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

If TL hasn't realised what's the problem with the two verses, let me explain

 

The Book of Hebews tries to shows that Isreal broke the convenant of the OT, and because of this God was pissed at them and left them

 

Whereas the Book of Jer shows that even though Isreal broke the convenant of the God, God was still faithful to the nation of Isreal

 

This is an fine example of where the words were changed to alter the meaning of the chapter. This was clearly done with premeditated intent.

 

The NT writers were great at pulling Hebrew verses out of their context and then twisting them to promote their theological agenda.

 

And this isn't just one example TL, there are atleast a hundred example of such lies and deception. No wonder the jews reject the Christian message.

[thunderbolt]

Jeremiah is proven to be a false prophet, so he needs to go right along with Paul and Jesus. Jeremiah's prophecy didn't happen in full concerning Babylon as we can see plain as we look at the computer screen, that there are people living there, it is inhabited.

 

Edit: And because Jeremiah is proven a false prophet it leaves a sort of big ole' problem...outside of Jeremiah, there is no mention of a New Covenant in the OT.

Tsk Tsk Tsk

Don't you know? It's magical ... it's a mystery. The prophecy is coded - you just cannot read what it says YET.

 

No seriously. If only FundyCo™ could understand; we don't even need lexicons to refute their nonsense. It's written plain and clear for all to see. I think we read the Bible more literally than they claim to do - perhaps that's our "problem."

[Guest thirstforknowledge]

But they still were held accountable for not being able to know that difference. They didn't understand what they were doing was wrong.

 

*edit*

 

This is the Adam and Eve story:

 

Take a baby.

 

Tell the baby the gun is dangerous.

 

Give the gun to the baby.

 

The baby plays with it and shoot you in the leg.

 

Punish the baby.

 

 

Thats a bit patronising, Adam and Eve were created with an intellect and the instruction was very simple.

 

If you tell me not to asdfasdf, and Lisa tells me to asdfasdf, who am I to believe? Without knowledge of good and evil, how am I supposed to know which one of you is telling me the correct thing, and which one of you is telling me the incorrect thing? I have no way to tell which is the good thing and which is the bad thing.... I have no knowledge of these things.

 

I have a 50/50 shot of getting it right.

 

Without knowledge of good and evil, how was Eve supposed to know that God was good and the snake was trying to deceive them? Without the knowledge, what is keeping them from thinking that the snake is telling the truth, and God is the liar?

[Ouroboros]

Good. You finally admitted to the possibility. Thanks.

 

This thread was about a simple method to prove that the Bible is not inspired by God.

 

So let's get to it.

 

My posit is:

The Bible contains man-made ideas and hopes, and nothing that is beyond what the human mind could have invented. There's nothing in there that can be taken as a divine inspiration.

 

Let's hear from you TL, what in the Bible can be an evidence for a divine source?

 

 

If I'm not allowed to quote the Bible and you won't consider spiritual experiences and you reject the historical *facts* of the ressurection, then how am I to do this?

First off, I didn't say you couldn't quote the Bible, where did you get that from? That excuse from you sounds like a retreat!

 

Secondly, do you understand now the impossible task of rationally deduce any divine influence in a written text? The likely hood of Bible being man-made is just as high as any other religious book.

[Ouroboros]

If you tell me not to asdfasdf, and Lisa tells me to asdfasdf, who am I to believe? Without knowledge of good and evil, how am I supposed to know which one of you is telling me the correct thing, and which one of you is telling me the incorrect thing? I have no way to tell which is the good thing and which is the bad thing.... I have no knowledge of these things.

 

I have a 50/50 shot of getting it right.

 

Without knowledge of good and evil, how was Eve supposed to know that God was good and the snake was trying to deceive them? Without the knowledge, what is keeping them from thinking that the snake is telling the truth, and God is the liar?

The funny thing (unfortunately TL didn't want to continue the discussion of A&E), but the snake was telling the truth, and God was lying and God was holding back information (usually called "white lies").

 

So if they had known, then they would have seen God as the liar, the snake as the honest, and they still would have eaten the fruit.

 

 

No seriously. If only FundyCo™ could understand; we don't even need lexicons to refute their nonsense. It's written plain and clear for all to see. I think we read the Bible more literally than they claim to do - perhaps that's our "problem."

Very true. I do think we prefer to read the Bible as either fully literal (and hence false and not historical) or fully allegorical (and still not historical). But the believers tend to mix depending of situation, and how uncomfortable they are with a literal interpretation of a passage. This is what goes on in the religious mind when they read:

 

"Okay, does it really literally mean 'Kill you son if he's disobedient'."

 

"Nah. I can't do that. It's against the law. So it can't be literal."

 

"Okay, let's think as an allegory instead."

 

"To "kill your disobedient son" must mean to "suppress your sins in your life", yes, that's it. Now it makes sense, and I won't commit a crime."

[Asuryan]

I didn't read them all to be honest, people started getting rude so I left this thread to die a natural death.

 

Well, so does this mean that you took your revenge on the people that were rude to you, by not answering them, knowing (because you are intelligent and of course you knew that) they would take offense or get annoyed because of your not answering?

 

Forgive them for their rudeness (however, you should also be prepared to admit the possibility that they weren't rude, and that *you* perceived some posts as rude just because you were, and still are, on a defensive position, and ready to see everyone and everything here as an attacker and a potential Satan's envoy to destroy you and your chance at eternal life...) and answer them anyway. Your religion should be all about forgiveness.

It is too easy to speak only with the people that are nice and kind with you, isn't it? It is hard to try and explain your point of view to people who are aggressive towards you. But is this not akin to loving your enemies, because everyone can love his/her friends and there's no merit in that?

Same thing. Everyone can answer nicely to nice posts.

 

The way you are acting now, not only you're not winning a single soul to jesus, not only you're not showing others what Love and Forgiveness really are - you come out as someone who just puts his hands over his ears and shouts I CANT HEAR YOU LALALALA whenever he reads something he doesn't like... and, let me tell you, more often than not you refused to answer many posts which weren't offensive at all, such as pritishd's.

 

Will you start answering, really answering our questions now?

How do you hope to show us your beliefs and your faith if you just turn away from the posts?

 

Waiting to hear your answer. and I hope you won't tell me I have been rude to you too!

[EdwardAbbey]

I still fail to see the point.

 

What exactly disproves the Bible? Certainly not logic because everything, when studied, makes perfect sense and is fairly obvious most of the time.

 

 

The reason you still are failing to see the point is simple. You're not applying that small dose of common sense.

 

What is there to study about a book that teaches dead bodies coming back to life, virgins giving birth after being raped and impregnated by ghosts, food magically multiplying and a man walking on water unassisted?

 

What kind of logic do you need to see the point that such stories are nothing more than legends based on pure BULLSHIT!

 

Are you getting the point yet?

[♦ ficino ♦]

A few things to prove that the Bible is not inspired by God:

 

1. contradictions. There are such a large number of them, discussed so often on this site and elsewhere, that I will not start listing them.

 

2. historical inaccuracy. falsehoods about the governor Quirinius and many others.

 

3. scientific inaccuracy. The Bible makes statements about geography, astronomy, biology, etc. , many of which are false.

 

4. general inanity of the whole system. If God wants rational creatures in heaven worshiping him, why not just start there instead of beginning the whole chancy creation? If God wants each worshiper to worship out of free will, thus requiring a period of testing on earth, then why does God confirm each saved soul in grace after death? They're not worshiping out of free will in heaven any more if their free will ended at death. Why is god called good and loving when he glories in the eternal torment of his own creatures (verses say this, I'm not making it up neither did Calvin). And on and on.

 

5. economy of explanation - not a proof but a reason not to bother with believing the Bible. The nature of the world as we experience it can be explained more simply and with fewer contradictions without theistic presuppositions than it can with them. Theistic presuppositions bring further, insoluble problems in their wake.

 

6. injustice. Why are fundamentalist christians so often on the side of oppressive power structures and not on the side of freedom and social justice? Why do they call for oppression of gays and lesbians? Many theologians in the South justified slavery from the Bible (I admit that abolitionists often appealed to the bible against slavery - so it has its good stuff in it, I'm not denying that. Abolitionism also follows from non-religious principles of the Enlightenment, though.)

[Ouroboros]

You also have the Failure of promises, the Bible is riddled with quotes like "if two or three gathered in my name", or "this signs will follow those who believe", or "they will know you're from me when you're united", and yet we don't see these things in reality. There's no more prayer answers one way or another, Christians don't have miracles and signs following them and the Christian body is not united and by the books own words it should prove them not being from God. The Book promises many things and they don't come true. The sign of false prophets.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Yes, good point, Han. Also prophecies that never happened, like total destruction of Tyre.

[Ouroboros]

It was a great list btw, Ficino.

[DanInPA]

John 14:20

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

 

 

Holy unanswered prayers Batman, even Jesus' requests weren't answered by god/jesus/himself/wtf ever?!!

[♦ ficino ♦]

John 14:20

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

 

 

Holy unanswered prayers Batman, even Jesus' requests weren't answered by god/jesus/himself/wtf ever?!!

 

 

Hey, Dan. Unfortunately, I think Christians usually fudge this one as they do many other unfulfilled scriptures by making up distinctions in senses of words and then saying the scripture is valid under one of the senses. So they say things like "the church visible is divided into thousands of denominations, but Jesus is talking about the Church invisible, which is one." And on and on like that.

 

It's pretty hard to argue that Jesus was teeter-tottering on top of two donkeys at once, though - especially when Matthew said two donkeys were needed to fulfill OT prophecy, and the other gospels say one donkey was needed!

[Ziggy]

All, I was wondering if i could jump in here, risk being eaten by the Lions, and ask the question from a different perspective. I am having discussions of this sort with fairly liberal Christians and so i have an interest - not just trying to create waves

 

Question.

Do any of think that any of the bible is God inspired.

 

Explanation

In any aspect of life it is easier to be negative rather than than positive, to destroy rather than build, doubt rather than believe etc. I agree with many of the holes in the bible that have been highlighted and am not arguing about them. It is of course correct to know whats wrong with any particular viewpoint, but I am thinking from the other side ..'seeking' .. looking FOR spiritual truth, anywhere, rather than try to disprove it completely.

I know there are people here who hang on to some sort of spiritualism and I suppose some of their knowledge of what God may be like comes from the Bible. But what parts - if any - do you think are inspired?

 

Example

You talked quite a bit in this thread about Adam and Eve. It seems ridiculous to me to take that story literally (an actual garden of Eden, a talking snake etc) - in fact I am tempted to say it was a fruitless argument ...but is there some spiritual inspiration behind the story?

 

ie

that there is good and bad in the world.

Everyone has a CHOICE to do good or bad

God does NOT have complete control or power over evil

Even if you don' believe in God we know there are things in life that are difficult to resist but which we know are not good for us deep down?

Who dictates what is morally right and wrong

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Ouch! Leo.. down !

[SkepticOfBible]

Do any of think that any of the bible is God inspired.

 

No, we treat it just like any other holy scripture. It was written by men who THOUGHT they were inspired by/about god

 

In any aspect of life it is easier to be negative rather than than positive, to destroy rather than build, doubt rather than believe etc.

So you are saying that we should not be skeptical?

 

Do you know the famous skeptic maxim

 

"Extra ordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".

 

In most of the world religion(including christianity) there are no extraordinary evidence, only claims.

 

Even you, my friend are a skeptic. You are skeptical about other people's belief.

 

I agree with many of the holes in the bible that have been highlighted and am not arguing about them. It is of course correct to know whats wrong with any particular viewpoint, but I am thinking from the other side ..'seeking' .. looking FOR spiritual truth, anywhere, rather than try to disprove it completely.

 

No one is denying that the bible does contains good stuff. But we do not close our eyes to the bad stuff. We are treating the bible in the same way that you treat the quran or the bhagwad Gita.

 

But what parts - if any - do you think are inspired?

 

Short answer - none.

 

Who dictates what is morally right and wrong

 

In short can morality be achieved out side god?

 

Please check out Dan barker vs Gastrich debate

 

and also this check this out

 

The Laws of Life and secular morality

 

Hopefully that would explain a lot

[Ziggy]

So you are saying that we should not be skeptical?

Do you know the famous skeptic maxim

"Extra ordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".

In most of the world religion(including christianity) there are no extraordinary evidence, only claims.

Even you, my friend are a skeptic. You are skeptical about other people's belief.

 

Pritishd of course I agree we should be skeptical. I am about most things ...not just religion - and I teach my kids to be so too.

And yes i am skeptical about other peoples beliefs no more so than the fundamental Christian.

 

But I don't want to be driven purely by negative energy - there must be some positives

 

I am hanging on to threads of spirituality; rightly or wrongly this is where I am. And with that in mind I am trying to find some spiritual positives (not just the Christian negatives which is what drew me here in the first place)

 

Maybe I'm in denial..!??

 

Anyway I suppose this is not the forum to ask people to try and find positives in the bible .. it wasn't meant to cause offence just that it is a relevent topic for me the moment.

 

So far this site has been brilliant and the majority of posts have been honest and thoughtful.

I feel a do share peoples angst against many of the fundamental issues Christianty teaches but for whatever reason I am also holding to some sort of belief

 

Thats confusing I know but I bet if you asked the question to most people here 'what do you believe' then the answers are all vague

 

Apart from the ones that absolutely don't believe anything at all of course

[SkepticOfBible]

But I don't want to be driven purely by negative energy - there must be some positives

 

And off course they are. Just like, every religion christianity has produced great works and great people. No one is denying the contribution of religion, eg hinduism produced some of the greatest scientific work.(eg invention of the zero), Newton was a great unitarion christian.

 

All of us greatly appreciate some of the values that are taught in the holy books. But we don't think they contain the ultimate truth to the universe.

 

But unlike believer we don't close our eyes to the negative stuff. Which is why we are wary of it?

 

I am hanging on to threads of spirituality; rightly or wrongly this is where I am. And with that in mind I am trying to find some spiritual positives (not just the Christian negatives which is what drew me here in the first place)

 

Maybe I'm in denial..!??

 

No you are just an agnostic. To me I think you are confusing skeptism with cynicism. I used to think in the same way. But skeptism is only sure path from saving you from deception.

 

We may not have all the answers, but we do have a lot of good questions.

 

Thats confusing I know but I bet if you asked the question to most people here 'what do you believe' then the answers are all vague

 

My answer is "I don't know". But I am love to find out.

[Ouroboros]

Question.

Do any of think that any of the bible is God inspired.

If there is a God, then some of it could be, but also the other holy books could be too. Maybe Quran is partially inspired by God too? And maybe all books written are inspired by God?

 

Explanation

In any aspect of life it is easier to be negative rather than than positive, to destroy rather than build, doubt rather than believe etc. I agree with many of the holes in the bible that have been highlighted and am not arguing about them. It is of course correct to know whats wrong with any particular viewpoint, but I am thinking from the other side ..'seeking' .. looking FOR spiritual truth, anywhere, rather than try to disprove it completely.

I know there are people here who hang on to some sort of spiritualism and I suppose some of their knowledge of what God may be like comes from the Bible. But what parts - if any - do you think are inspired?

What is inspiration? Really, what is it? Is it automated ghost writing or is it as the word suggests "inspiration"? If I feel inspired to write a novel, or paint a painting, or make music, is that God? Is it God inspiring Opeth to write heavy metal songs? Maybe some of it inspired by GOd, what do you think?

 

Example

You talked quite a bit in this thread about Adam and Eve. It seems ridiculous to me to take that story literally (an actual garden of Eden, a talking snake etc) - in fact I am tempted to say it was a fruitless argument ...but is there some spiritual inspiration behind the story?

I think a story like that was written to try to explain the world in a spiritual context. People back then didn't have science and understanding of the world the way we have, and they needed something that would make sense out of it. So this story was something you could tell you kids, so they could accept reality as it was.

 

ie

that there is good and bad in the world.

Everyone has a CHOICE to do good or bad

God does NOT have complete control or power over evil

Even if you don' believe in God we know there are things in life that are difficult to resist but which we know are not good for us deep down?

Very true. And that's what I think the story is trying to make sense out of.

 

Who dictates what is morally right and wrong

Us, society, ruling culture, the masses, the judicial branch of the government, the moral memeplex.

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Ouch! Leo.. down !

Roooooaarr.

[NotBlinded]

All, I was wondering if i could jump in here, risk being eaten by the Lions, and ask the question from a different perspective. I am having discussions of this sort with fairly liberal Christians and so i have an interest - not just trying to create waves

 

Question.

Do any of think that any of the bible is God inspired.

 

Explanation

In any aspect of life it is easier to be negative rather than than positive, to destroy rather than build, doubt rather than believe etc. I agree with many of the holes in the bible that have been highlighted and am not arguing about them. It is of course correct to know whats wrong with any particular viewpoint, but I am thinking from the other side ..'seeking' .. looking FOR spiritual truth, anywhere, rather than try to disprove it completely.

I know there are people here who hang on to some sort of spiritualism and I suppose some of their knowledge of what God may be like comes from the Bible. But what parts - if any - do you think are inspired?

 

Example

You talked quite a bit in this thread about Adam and Eve. It seems ridiculous to me to take that story literally (an actual garden of Eden, a talking snake etc) - in fact I am tempted to say it was a fruitless argument ...but is there some spiritual inspiration behind the story?

 

ie

that there is good and bad in the world.

Everyone has a CHOICE to do good or bad

God does NOT have complete control or power over evil

Even if you don' believe in God we know there are things in life that are difficult to resist but which we know are not good for us deep down?

Who dictates what is morally right and wrong

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Ouch! Leo.. down !

I think that there are parts that Jesus said (or said to be said by him) that addresses spiritual insights. IMO, there are parts, that when read without the garbage added to his words, that will lead one to certain understandings. An example could be when he said to 'deny thyself'. The very teachings of spiritual people are those that tell people to dissove their egos, or what they regard as 'themself'. He also says, "I and my Father are one." This also tells me that god is in Jesus and he is able to recognize it. Jesus was not the only one. God (Whatever that is) is inside everyone and everything. The Gospel of Thomas states of Jesus saying, "Turn over a rock and you will find me." Also: Luk 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

 

Jesus was no more god than anyone else, he was just more in touch with his inner nature, which is what is claimed to be god but not in the sense that the writters made it out to be.

 

The Adam and Eve allegory to me represents mankind turning away from their inner nature and seeking knowledge instead. Knowledge brings recognition of a dual nature...I'm right so therefore, you must be wrong kind of mentality. Our inner nature gets hidded behind our minds (egos).

 

These teachings are no different than any of the other major religions, including the east. Christianity was just bastardized.

 

Anyway I suppose this is not the forum to ask people to try and find positives in the bible .. it wasn't meant to cause offence just that it is a relevent topic for me the moment.

Look for them...they're there!

 

I also was driven purely by negative energy and it was fine for many years until I realized that I, and my family, were the ones that were being hurt by the negativity. I needed something else and I when I found that there may be a solution, I was elated! I am still pretty much a negative person, but damnit, I'm doing the best I can!

[Ziggy]

I also was driven purely by negative energy and it was fine for many years until I realized that I, and my family, were the ones that were being hurt by the negativity. I needed something else and I when I found that there may be a solution, I was elated! I am still pretty much a negative person, but damnit, I'm doing the best I can!

 

I agree whole heartedly If all you have is negative then you are the one ending up hurt.

Which is why i want to be searching FOR something rather than ONLY dwelling on the negatives.

 

And i am happy to know that there are people here also doing the same. Its what makes this site helpful.

 

 

Hansolo - you agreed in general with my understanding of the meaning behind the adam and Eve story. I bet TheListener doesn't think the people on this site could take anything positive from that story after the discussion he / she took part in earlier in the thread... and this is what drives me NUTS! about Christians and this sort of debate. They feel they have to defend the literal aspects of a blatantly allegorical story (like they really believe snakes talk etc) and inviting ridicule No debate - just a farce

 

Maybe if they took a different approach they would see the lions can sometimes leave their teeth in jar by the bed meow

 

As for what inspiration is - It all depends on what you can take from what you are reading / listening to / looking at and if it triggers something thats already inside you. Then to you its inspired but may not be someone else If motorhead sang a psalm would the christian think it was inspired even though the words were unaltered!? But if they liked motorhead maybe they would

 

All of us greatly appreciate some of the values that are taught in the holy books. But we don't think they contain the ultimate truth to the universe.

 

Agreed.