Prophecies Of Quran

[SkepticOfBible]

Christians Please Check Out the Following Links

 

Prophecies of Quran Which Came True

 

Prophecies by Mohammed

 

Prophecies of Mohammed In The OT and NT

 

In short the above links is saying

 

"See christians, the OT and NT has so many foreshadowment and prophecies of Mohammed, and Mohammed is the only person fulfilled all the above prophecies, therefore Islam must be true"

 

Does the above claim sounds familar.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that many of the "true believers" of Christianity will now become bonafide skeptics, and will use every known skeptical analysis known in the world to debunk these claims.

 

However after you have debunked these claims, I also have no doubt in my mind that you will forget to use those same methodolgies on your existing beliefs. This is what we refer to as "Double Standard"/"hypocracy".

[TheListener]

just looking up the crucifixtion event from your first link:

 

From the site:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah_53.htm on to:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac24.htm#links on to:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/nt_c...se_of_peter.htm

 

It has been written:

 

1- The NT confirms that only Peter witnessed the crucifixion:

 

First of all, it is important to know that according to the New Testament itself, all of Jesus' Disciples fled for their lives on the night of crucifixion. None of them witnessed Jesus' crucifixion except for one, that is Saint Peter! He was the lone and only witness of the actual crucifixion event. Let us look at what the Bible's New Testament says:

 

Matthew 26:34-35, 55-57, 69-75

34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.

.......

55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.

56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.

69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.

70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.

71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.

73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.

74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

 

 

Now as we clearly see, Peter did witness the so-called crucifixion event. He was present there. The only thing that saved him from death is his denial that he knew Jesus. Otherwise, he would've got crucified that night.

 

*cough*lol*cough*

 

Ok...

 

Did anyone bother reading that?

 

How can I take that site seriously? It's like the horis lie all over again...

[TheListener]

Did anyone bother reading that?

 

How can I take that site seriously? It's like the horis lie all over again...

 

Good and you're right, no it cannot be taken seriously. At least you know now why we feel the same way to the links Christians provide us with, same tactics just a different religion but we feel the same way towards Christianity that you do Islam. Actually, I feel the same towards Islam that you do too.

 

May I ask though your reasons for not believing it? What is wrong with their reasoning?

 

 

I didn't read the entire site with all its links, that would take weeks. I picked one, Jesus' crucifixtion. Just a quick look at it showed a lack of Biblical knowledge and sensational claims. I think their target audience is the less mature Christians and Muslims who want to reaffirm their faith.

 

I agree with you on a level, some Christian websites and books are shocking. But the problem with Christianity does not lie with Jesus but rather, lies with Jesus' followers. We are all human and we all make mistakes and give into temptations.

[TheListener]

But the problem with Christianity does not lie with Jesus but rather, lies with Jesus' followers.

 

Hmmm, I left the Christian religion though because of the lies I found in the bible. It had nothing to do with the followers.

 

The section from the Islamist apologetics though that you picked is easily ripped apart though, you're right about that.

 

 

Do you have a link for me about lies in the Bible? Pick one and lets discuss it.

[Antlerman]

I agree with you on a level, some Christian websites and books are shocking. But the problem with Christianity does not lie with Jesus but rather, lies with Jesus' followers. We are all human and we all make mistakes and give into temptations.

From your statement above, couldn't the Muslim say the same thing that "The problem with Islam does not lie with Mohamed, but rather with Allah's followers"?

 

I've known some fine people in the Muslim community who do the exact same rationalizations of history and science to defend their preconceived ideas about what the Quran says as Christians do to defend their belief in the Bible and Jesus. I was struck by the identical reactions from them as there is from Christians in Christianity. Faith is not based on fact: For them or for Christianity. Faith is Faith.

 

This conversation will be interesting to watch unfold. BTW, welcome!

[TheListener]

I agree with you on a level, some Christian websites and books are shocking. But the problem with Christianity does not lie with Jesus but rather, lies with Jesus' followers. We are all human and we all make mistakes and give into temptations.

From your statement above, couldn't the Muslim say the same thing that "The problem with Islam does not lie with Mohamed, but rather with Allah's followers"?

 

I've known some fine people in the Muslim community who do the exact same rationalizations of history and science to defend their preconceived ideas about what the Quran says as Christians do to defend their belief in the Bible and Jesus. I was struck by the identical reactions from them as there is from Christians in Christianity. Faith is not based on fact: For them or for Christianity. Faith is Faith.

 

This conversation will be interesting to watch unfold. BTW, welcome!

 

 

Thanks for the welcome

 

I agree that Muslims and Christians often "borrow" methods of defense from each other so it is important that one examine both sides claims and make up their own mind.

 

For me, the claims and promises in the Koran are too outrageous and sinful to be coming from a Holy God but makes perfect sense when you see a possible motive behind it. Muhammed had personal interests but what personal interest did Jesus or his followers have?

[thunderbolt]

For me, the claims and promises in the Koran are too outrageous and sinful to be coming from a Holy God but makes perfect sense when you see a possible motive behind it. Muhammed had personal interests but what personal interest did Jesus or his followers have?

Exactly which claims are outrageous?

What's the difference between your motive and theirs?

What personal interests did Mohammed have?

 

 

 

Oh, and before you cry "too many questions" - remember YOU are the one making these claims, so it's only logical to ask you to substantiate those claims. Don't make them unless you don't want to be questioned on them.

[TheListener]

Exactly which claims are outrageous?

 

Definitions of Heaven seem a bit impossible to comprehend coming from a God who hates sexual immorality and drunkenness.

 

What's the difference between your motive and theirs?

 

God promised Israel land. Allah promised Muslims the whole world. Both to be taken by the sword if need be.

 

In the New Testament Jesus preached love & peace, not the sword.

 

Do you see a conflict there?

 

What personal interests did Mohammed have?

 

Look at how Muhammed died a rich man with many women and riches and power. Compare to the life Jesus lived and how He went to the cross. Examine motives. Apply common sense.

[thunderbolt]

In the New Testament Jesus preached love & peace, not the sword.

 

Do you see a conflict there?

What??? Are you kidding me? Of course Jesus preached sword, or have you skipped those verses?

 

 

Look at how Muhammed died a rich man with many women and riches and power. Compare to the life Jesus lived and how He went to the cross. Examine motives. Apply common sense.

Sorry, not familiar with this. What are your sources for this?

[Hero of Hyrule]

Sorry, not familiar with this. What are your sources for this?

 

I don't have any sources, but I can comfirm he is right about that claim.

 

But that alone is not enough to say Muhammed is wrong . It has to do with history, Jesus preached in and already diveded land, full of small sects and it was occupied by Rome. Jesus, at the time, brought more division. Muhammed brought unity in Arabia. It's logical they he could pick the fruits from that.

 

Also note there iven if the bible is taken literally, w have no sources of how Jesus lived his life.

[TheListener]

What??? Are you kidding me? Of course Jesus preached sword, or have you skipped those verses?

 

 

Where did Jesus preach the sword? And may I remind you we are talking about the sword in its literal meaning not the sword of the spirit.

[thunderbolt]

What??? Are you kidding me? Of course Jesus preached sword, or have you skipped those verses?

 

 

Where did Jesus preach the sword? And may I remind you we are talking about the sword in its literal meaning not the sword of the spirit.

Sure, let's go:

 

Luke 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be their king,75 bring them here and slaughter76 them77 in front of me!’”

 

Luke 22

Supplies for the Road

 

35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?” So they said, “Nothing.”

36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword , let him sell his garment and buy one . 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’[d] For the things concerning Me have an end.”

38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”

 

Let's see you harmonizing those away ...

[Mythra]

Where did Jesus preach the sword? And may I remind you we are talking about the sword in its literal meaning not the sword of the spirit.

 

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Matthew 10:33-35

 

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Luke 22:35-37

[TheListener]

Sure, let's go:

 

Luke 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be their king,75 bring them here and slaughter76 them77 in front of me!’”

 

Luke 22

Supplies for the Road

 

35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?” So they said, “Nothing.”

36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword , let him sell his garment and buy one . 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’[d] For the things concerning Me have an end.”

38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”

 

Let's see you harmonizing those away ...

 

If you know how to harmonize them away then feel free to harmonize them yourself.

 

The first is the end of a parable taken out of context describing the Pharisees and Chief Priests.

 

The second shows what the disciples can expect in the future. Jesus has more teachings on love and forgiveness, why not keep things in context? Even though Jesus gave them a realistic view of their future what does the book of Acts portray the early Church going through? Did they spread the message through the sword?

 

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Matthew 10:33-35

 

What is Jesus really saying here? In context?

[thunderbolt]

The first is the end of a parable taken out of context describing the Pharisees and Chief Priests.

Sorry, but by that time the parable was already over. Nice try. Read it in context! :-)

 

The second shows what the disciples can expect in the future. Jesus has more teachings on love and forgiveness, why not keep things in context?

So does Mohammed. Why should we only focus on Jesus’ teaching of “love” and ignore his teachings of hatred?

 

Did they spread the message through the sword?

Christianity has a vivid history of spreading the word through the sword, justified by Scripture.

[Hero of Hyrule]

What is Jesus really saying here? In context?

 

He knew that his teachings were going to make people fight. He was right.

 

Did they spread the message through the sword?

 

No. But if they would have tried, they would have been in trouble. Yet another sect was not dangerous for the Romans. A group of armed fanatics killing here and there would have angered them though, and Christianity wouldn't exist.

The Jews and Muslims on the other, had much more change with swords and other direct fighting then with preaching. Arabia was on the border of two Great Empires, strungling with each other. The Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire. That's much differnt from being in one even greater Empire.

[TheListener]

The first is the end of a parable taken out of context describing the Pharisees and Chief Priests.

Sorry, but by that time the parable was already over. Nice try. Read it in context! :-)

 

The second shows what the disciples can expect in the future. Jesus has more teachings on love and forgiveness, why not keep things in context?

So does Mohammed. Why should we only focus on Jesus’ teaching of “love” and ignore his teachings of hatred?

 

Did they spread the message through the sword?

Christianity has a vivid history of spreading the word through the sword, justified by Scripture.

 

 

Luke 19:11-28

 

11While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a]'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'

 

14"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'

 

15"He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

 

16"The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.'

 

17" 'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.'

 

18"The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.'

 

19"His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.'

 

20"Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'

 

22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?'

 

24"Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.'

 

25" 'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!'

 

26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."

 

28After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.

 

Sorry but you are wrong. It is the end of a parable not a literal command by Jesus. Read it in context.

 

Which teaching of Jesus is about hatred? Is it this one?

Matthew 5: 21-22 21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

 

Or this one?

Matthew 5:38-48 38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

[thunderbolt]

Either way, Jesus made a point through the parable - inciting actions through his followers to use the sword, not matter how you slice it, given that he came to bring the sword (in his own words).

[TheListener]

Either way, Jesus made a point through the parable - inciting actions through his followers to use the sword, not matter how you slice it, given that he came to bring the sword (in his own words).

 

If that is your interpretation of it then that is your interpretation of it.

 

What do commentaries say about that particular verse? Have you had a look before jumping to conclusions? It is helpful to see what people who have studied it in depth have to say about it before jumping to conclusions because going by the Matthew verses I showed it doesn't make sense to say Jesus ordered his followers to become murderers.

[thunderbolt]

If that is your interpretation of it then that is your interpretation of it.

Thanks - given Luke 22 - a chapter or so later - it makes perfect sense. As you say, just use some common sense.

:-)

[TheListener]

Neither Jesus nor Mohammed compliment the god of the Jews. Both Christianity and Islam tried to try and run with the Jewish religion. Christianity does away with the perfect and eternal law, that right there axes any other arguments trying to support that Christians worship the same god that the jews do. A God that would torture people eternally axes out any bible claims that god is a god of love. A God as cruel and evil as in the pages of Koran and Bible cannot be a god of love either .

 

 

Christianity quotes plenty of Old Testament and DOES NOT do away with God at all but fulfills it. The Old testaments lasting ordanences were for that covenant made in Genesis 12:1-3 but God also made clear a new covenant was coming:

 

Jeremiah 31:31-34

 

31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,

"when I will make a new covenant

with the house of Israel

and with the house of Judah.

 

32 It will not be like the covenant

I made with their forefathers

when I took them by the hand

to lead them out of Egypt,

because they broke my covenant,

though I was a husband to [a] them, "

declares the LORD.

 

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel

after that time," declares the LORD.

"I will put my law in their minds

and write it on their hearts.

I will be their God,

and they will be my people.

 

34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,

or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'

because they will all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest,"

declares the LORD.

"For I will forgive their wickedness

and will remember their sins no more."

[TheListener]

That doesn't happen until AFTER Israel and Judah accepts the covenant, where in that verse does it say if Israel rejects it, then it shifts and applies to accepting Gentiles? Where in the ENTIRE prophetic scriptures of the ENTIRE OT does it say, "if the Jews don't accept" this offer is now up for grabs?

You're right, the NT does quote the OT...out of context and plenty.

 

Genesis 12:1-3 God declares his intentions for ALL of mankind. The rest is history and the choices man makes to God and God's responses.

[thunderbolt]

No longer will a man teach his neighbor,

or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'

because they will all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest,"

declares the LORD.

"For I will forgive their wickedness

and will remember their sins no more."

Clearly the prophecy failed, even though you take it out of context as Serentiy describes. To this day, we have people teaching other's to “know the Lord,” and we are also told that God will remember sins in the second judgment, when everyone has to give account – even Christians. So much for “remember no more.”

[TheListener]

Has God not offered forgiveness for sins? Has God not poured out His Spirit on His people? Where is the failed prophesy?

[TheListener]

Sitting in a Church doesn't make you a Christian nor does sitting in McDonalds make you a hamburger. If there are 30,000 sects then how many actually honour God? And if they are all (or most) about honoring God then who cares if they disagree on minor interpretation issues? Does it make Jesus' forgiveness any less real?