thunderbolt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 We always find mans wisdom more comforting than God's wisdom who only reveals to us what we need to know, don't we? You misunderstand – we said IF IF IF IF we had to chose something to worship, then Toasim represents far more wisdom of anything that could be remotely considered “godly” than what the Abrahamic faiths can ever lay claim on. But in the end, it’s all the wisdom of man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Do you believe in anything other than man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbolt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Do you believe in anything other than man? Yes, I believe you have run out of arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 We always find mans wisdom more comforting than God's wisdom who only reveals to us what we need to know, don't we? It is yet to be proven that bible is word of god. At this point the bible has the same status as the quran for us. Both are a work of men. You know in another thread "credibility of protestant christianity" perhaps you can prove to us why your canon is true one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 You believe in the Bible because of God, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Do you believe in anything other than man? Sure, I believe in lots of things, just not your version of God. So are you gonna do it? Do you have the guts to actually read up on other religions? You call them man's wisdom like its a bad thing, and as if you have proven that Christianity is any different, you have done nither, but are ignorant of other people views, so how can you judge them to be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Do you believe in anything other than man? Sure, I believe in lots of things, just not your version of God. So are you gonna do it? Do you have the guts to actually read up on other religions? You call them man's wisdom like its a bad thing, and as if you have proven that Christianity is any different, you have done nither, but are ignorant of other people views, so how can you judge them to be wrong? I have read up on other religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 You believe in the Bible because of God, not the other way around. It isn't difficult to change the above to a generic or islamic one You believe in the Quran because of God, not the other way around See the double standard that I mentioned in the beginning of the post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 You believe in the Bible because of God, not the other way around. I believe in neither. So it's the way without going around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Myrtha, is the Holy Spirit real? Let me get this straight... A Christian - comes to ExChristian.net - and asks the question, "Is the Holy Spirit real?" This guy is gettin' better'n better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I take that as your answer is no, even though I wasn't asking you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I take that as your answer is no, even though I wasn't asking you. I don't view it as an entity unto itself, and I don't view it as being part of the one true tri-persona God either. What people refer to as being The Holy Spirit, I'm finding more and more as being nothing more than their own minds becoming more convinced that amazing stories are real. The more "far out" a believer is, they are more inclined to think they are being influenced by The Holy Spirit. In other words, it's just another name for insanity. So yes, The Holy Spirit is quite real. In a particular sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Opinion noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbolt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I don't view it as an entity unto itself, and I don't view it as being part of the one true tri-persona God either. I believe in the Trinity - it was the name of the first atomic bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Opinion noted. so you are allowed to have opinions, but we doing something wrong by having ones that disagree with yours? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the tone of your statement, but you seem to play that opinion card a lot, and it comes off as if you are patronizing us for having our own opinions. I have read up on other religions. If you were really well read on other religions you wouldn't have handed us such a silly article and expected anyone to take it seriously, so sorry I'm not really sure I believe your claim of being well read. Oh I'm sure you think your well read, hell back in my days as a believer I thought I was well read in other religions too. However, my mindset was so much in fundy mode that I understood what I read about as much as a blind man understands the difference between the colors blue and red. Further more, if you are so knowladgeable about other belief systems as you claim then explain to me why you feel that Taoism is incorect and Christianity is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I don't view it as an entity unto itself, and I don't view it as being part of the one true tri-persona God either. I believe in the Trinity - it was the name of the first atomic bomb. I believe in Trinity too! Damn, she is so hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbolt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Damn, she is so hot! Yeah, and she can kick any god's ass. And I mean major kick in slo-mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 However after you have debunked these claims, I also have no doubt in my mind that you will forget to use those same methodolgies on your existing beliefs. This is what we refer to as "Double Standard"/"hypocracy". Pritishd, this thread is mind-blowing. Your above words have become a fulfilled prophecy! Seriously, this whole thing reminds me of this time a friend was talking in her sleep with her eyes wide open and looking right at me. We had a ridiculous conversation, and she fell back asleep. When she woke up 5 minutes later, she didn't remember a thing. And they wonder why us atheists are cranky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 [Which teaching of Jesus is about hatred? Is it this one? Matthew 5: 21-22 21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. Or this one? Matthew 5:38-48 38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Let me ask you a question. In each of the 3 instances where Jesus said "You have heard", may I ask who told these people about these commandments? Wasn't it Jesus himself? So you are telling me that Jesus changed his mind after 4000 years about these laws?Why didn't he give these to moses in the first place? So in your theology Jesus/God tells something else to some people in different time(preaching hate in the OT) and then gives contradictory commands(preaching love as you said) after a few thousands year? You call this a consistant message? Here is another inconsistancy that is illustrated by your own statement God promised Israel land. Allah promised Muslims the whole world. Both to be taken by the sword if need be. In the New Testament Jesus preached love & peace, not the sword. Do you see a conflict there? yes, because Jesus is god, and he telling his hebrew to take the promised land by the sword, and some 4000 later he talks about peace and love. Why didn't Jesus talk love and peace to the hebrews? Is the morality of God changing? Btw: please show me where does it say in the OT "Love you neighbour and hate your enemy". Which verse is Jesus quoting? However after you have debunked these claims, I also have no doubt in my mind that you will forget to use those same methodolgies on your existing beliefs. This is what we refer to as "Double Standard"/"hypocracy". Pritishd, this thread is mind-blowing. Your above words have become a fulfilled prophecy! Our friend also forgot to mention as to what method he used to come to the conclusion that Quran and Islam are false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Btw: please show me where does it say in the OT "Love you neighbour and hate your enemy". Which verse is Jesus quoting? Lol Pritishd, it a quote from the OT in Leviticus but notice the carefully chosen words in the scripture...All Scriptures, Leviticus 19:18 But never the less there is no scripture which says "love you neighbour and hate your enemy". So when God/Jesus was quoting scripture he wasn't even quoting it correctly. Nevertheless theListener does have a problem at hand. Jesus on one hand is saying "Kill the enemies, take the revenge. Eye for eye and tooth for a tooth", and then suddenly on the other hand the same Jesus is saying "Bless your enemies, turn another cheek". Why can't you make up your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Thanks for the welcome I agree that Muslims and Christians often "borrow" methods of defense from each other so it is important that one examine both sides claims and make up their own mind. For me, the claims and promises in the Koran are too outrageous and sinful to be coming from a Holy God but makes perfect sense when you see a possible motive behind it. Muhammed had personal interests but what personal interest did Jesus or his followers have? Wow, I turn my back for one minute and 5 pages of posts suddenly appear! Yikes! I've skimmed over most of the posts and get a general idea of things. Essentially, you are saying that your beliefs make more sense from a logical point of view, therefore they are more credible. Would this be an accurate summary? If so, have you taken into account at all any sort of biases, such as your cultural conditioning since childhood; how that may have influenced what makes more "sense" to you, or do you feel you are unaffected by those sorts of influences? Do you see any validity in how, when a Muslim says to a Christian that what the Bible teaches just doesn't make "sense", or do you out of hand dismiss their opinion because it doesn't make sense to you and sounds like they're being illogical? I'm interested in hearing how you perceive other's points of view and how you view your own, not so much the arguments of the specifics you may wish to cite to validate you beliefs. I'm already convinced you accept them as believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Can I make a comment here? Being rude and mocking Christianity does not equal refuting Christianity. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 What mocking? What rudeness? :shrugs: We have posted valid questions, and you avoid them and claim they've been answered a million times... I don't see the answers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Can I make a comment here? Being rude and mocking Christianity does not equal refuting Christianity. Thanks. Who were you directing this comment towards? I certainly am not intenting to be rude in the question I'm asking. Do you feel I was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 There is a general feel in the entire forum of mocking Jesus and Christians. As a Christian you can't expect me to not notice that can you? but I'm ok with it, I've seen it all before and heard it all before. I've mocked Jesus plenty of times in my past too and trust me what you guys are doing is tame compared to my past. Just don't expect me to answer a question/insult every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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