Lost Trust In People.

[traveller2]

I just turned 40.A few weeks ago tho somthing happened inside me that is probably good and has not settled yet.since de converting I am no stranger to rapid changes ,indeed I've needed to change as was very niave as a christian and probably needed to 'catch up' and mature for my age.

Lately I just lost trust in most people.i mean I still hav faith in my gf, a few of close friends(like 4! ), my mum but that's really it.

I've been burnt alot as a christian and after leaving that I had a few friends over the years who just turned out to be worthless arsehole.the friends j mentioned I still trust have taken a long time to trust but could live quite happily if they were not trustable. I'd just broom them like I did to the worthless ones.

I did need to develop caution and a thicker skin for sure.like I said I'm no stranger to these life transitions but this is a weird one.i really just could care less, I don't expect anything of folk and have very little interest in developing new relationships with anyone.

The purity of this is what startles me.its not like I'm saying this but inside am hurting and wishing it different. ..I really just don't care and don't believe in anyone really having any goodness.Nor has this attitude been from any conscious effort.it just came over me late one evening.in some ways I see it as a nessesary step of growth as an ex christian but having not felt like this before it IS quite uncomfortable.

Anyone else experienced this happening in their deconversion?

[traveller2]

On my mobile and cny edit this so a few spelling mistakes but hope you can all follow it.

Near the bottom I mention the purity of this feeling.it reads "I'm not saying this...BUT I'm hurt..." that should say "...because I'm hurt...".

 

It may well be born from MUCH hurt over the years of course but it's not a conscious reactive decision but a far more subconscious and deeper change.

[wyson]

yup, this happened to me also. Many of my old high school friends became unbearable assholes. I ditched all but one. I also stopped seeing a lot of my university friends, although I didnt ditch them, I did minimise contact to weddings and birthdays. I now understand I only felt this way because of depression / religious trauma / my own anxiety and confusion. I also started to translate the Christian ideal of having a perfect relationship with God/ Jesus onto the people around me. Obviously, then everyone would disappoint, because, well they are people! Its only after recovering somewhat that I have managed to start forming bonds with people again. I accept that they exist for themselves and will only share with me what they can, that they all have different requirements and will want to bond to different levels. My isolation / suspicion lasted 10 years, and only stopped when I got help and realised I needed to get my self esteem in order by listening to myself and being fair to myself. Its a cliche, but you really have to like and trust yourself first before you can like and trust others. Thinking for half my life that I was wretched sinner didn't exactly help this issue.

 

Can you go into more detail? What was said? Why did you react badly to what was said? What exactly about these people is it that you don't trust?

[Deva]

Outside of the internet, I actually have no friends at all right now that live near me. What can I say, angus, I am 56 years old and I don't know if I will ever have any more friends. I have to accept that.

 

I recently lost another one (yesterday). Why do people wait until the holidays to spring this news that "I no longer want to be your friend"? A mystery.

[traveller2]

Wyson :I became close to several people.two of whom I think we're. ..ell they certainly had some psychopathic traits and I should have known better.I don't think that would happen again. Another was a change in them or maybe I just saw their true colours ..They were profoundly selfish.Another couldn't handle the deconversion process, even tho they were not christian.Then another one who was very new agey :I found after a while when you scratched the surface u found the idiot self centred party girls she claimed she had left behind and I didn't really want know.
A common theme then is I developed quite quick bonds with alot of sharing but after a while I see a hidden side I never liked much and wanted to protect myself.In each case there was a confidence breached thru gossip,one instance of theft, and also a bit of lying that I found out.

[traveller2]

Deva I have more 'friends' online than in person.I too have spent years with no friends atall. I remember being embarrassed of that at the time.Now I'd not be concerned and I too hav thought that it may b that I will return to that situation again esp if I moved for a job etc.I suspect it's not that uncommon either.

[traveller2]

In the present Wyson I have had this sort of thing happen so much that I kind of expect everyone I meet to hav this potential. I definitely attracted this kind of person ( psycho cunts and users ) and can trace the origins of this back to my crazy up bringing. With that self knowledge and alot of work I have more confidence and I think ability to filter them out.Perhaps the pendulum has swung a bit far the other way but I'm not gny force it back.

[ToHellWithMe]

Your message got me thinking. Also that you perceive it as a change or as a loss of something is fascinating. For me that "there's no goodness in people" thing is a momentary thing. Recurring one, but more just a point of view than a change. A moment of horrifying clarity that fortunately never lasts, but still leaves me with food for thought, probably taking how I normally see things slightly toward that clarity.

 

I think it may be ultimately good if it helps me further accept the selfishness of others. Accept their reasons to treat me badly because of their own interests or issues. And not hate them for it, but just deal with it in a suitable way. To expect it and, ideally, to internalize it and to be perfectly happy with it. I've always been nearly immune to certain types of shit treatment because I've probably pre-emptively dealt with it, without thinking. New immunities shouldn't be a bad thing to have.

[25YearsLater]

Adopting an evidential approach to life will naturally result in less trust in people whose trustworthiness you have no evidence for.

 

Perfectly normal.

[wyson]

I just read through your extimony.  Are you seeing a therapist?  It seems like you have a lot of issues to work through.  From what I have read, having tried to help myself, early childhood issues can't be worked out by yourself, and are challenging to correct even with professional assistance.  I have seen one friend who attended therapy improve significantly over 3 years.   She told me talking through her thoughts with someone non judgemental really helped her to get issues she suppressed to the surface, and helped her deal with them.  Some of her issues, she has just had to accept... her therapist helped her develop healthy coping strategies.

 

I will say, I don't trust anyone completely.  As an adult, I don't think this is possible.  You can however trust certain people in limited ways.  For instance, I can't trust my mother who is a fundamentalist on an emotional level.  She won't accept my deconversion because she still sees me as an extension of her ego. All her "care" is about getting me back into fundamentalism.  However, I could transfer my whole life savings to her account, give her the keys to my house and car and know she will look after them.  I have friends, where its the other way round.  I would never trust them with money, or my house or car BUT I can trust them to understand my dislike and hate of fundamentalist Christianity, or any sort of superstition, and know that they would understand my deconversion in a similar way to me.  It would be something so obvious to them, that they wouldn't even consider it odd.  They would just see it as a part of growing up.

 

Try to get to know people first.  Open up slowly.  See what they have to offer as people.  Trust them in the ways that they will allow.  Expose some parts of yourself to some people, and other parts to other people.

 

Did you ever consider that you could be an introvert?  Some studies say that introverts are wired differently.  They are concerned with their own inner world and are therefore considered shy, dislike superficial conversations, can be socially awkward.  Have a look at some London introverts meetup group intro's below:

 

http://www.meetup.com/London-Introverts-Society/?gj=ej1b&a=wg2.3_rdmr

http://www.meetup.com/London-Introverts-Social-Club/

[Margee]

Angus, I said this (about trust) when I wrote my ''Please Forgive Me'' letter four years ago and I still stand by what I said about the issue of trust.

 

Quote: '' It’s not that I want to reject you – I just don’t trust you anymore. Trust is reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, of a person or thing; confidence. It is the confident expectation of hope that someone really cares for your well-being. It gives you confidence in the certainty of the future. It is a loving person on whom one relies. It is the condition of one, to whom something has been entrusted with, like custody or care. It is a commitment of love, and that love would not hurt you.....''

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/#.VI2j4ivF_y0

 

I don't think most people purposely set out to hurt one another, it just seems that all humans have there own 'shite' to deal with. Humans are very wrapped up in survival. We also get 'addicted' to what makes us feel good along that path whether that be a good addiction (like hobbies) or a bad addiction. Addictions, good or bad  can take people away from us and they both hurt because we feel left out. (I've done it myself and have let other's down) We put a lot of energy into those things that make us very selfish to one another. (I include myself in this) Add to this, the daily struggles of life and people can only be there for you a minority of the time, it seems. I personally accept this as a hard, cold fact now and I have become much more aware of my own behavior. Most people, it seems to me are wrapped up in their own lives. Just accepting the fact that a lot of people cannot be trusted to come through for you is a hard, yet comforting fact because if you accept that, you will not put so much trust in people. You will put it in yourself.  You cannot change people. They can only change themselves.

 

The thing to do in my opinion is to learn how to fully trust yourself in being able to handle life yourself to a great degree. I completely take care of my own issues now and anybody that adds a little to my life is icing on the cake.

 

If people continue to let you down time after time after time, it is time to remove yourself from their lives and let them grow and learn their own lessons. I try very hard to do this with love and not hate. Love yourself, take care of yourself, get your life in order and try to enjoy those who are wanting to support you.

 

As far as romantic relationships go, if two people are not willing to work on issues that need to be worked on and put out all the 'cards on the table', most likely that relationship will not last. You must both be willing partners to look at the issues that cause trouble and find solutions so you can develop a true intimate relationship. If one party is not willing to look at the part they play in the breakdown of a relationship, it will be useless to go on. It takes a lot of guts to admit to your partner who you really are. Then the other party has to either accept those flaws as they work out a solution together. We have to be able to accept the flaws in them also. It's hard work because you have two totally different false ego's and pride to deal with. People can be very embarrassed to admit who they are because of shame. We have all been shamed. Love does hurt at times. But it doesn't have to if two people can be 100% honest with each other. If you can work through these hard issues that cause trouble and be honest about those things that cause the hurt in the relationship, then and only then, can you learn to somewhat trust the other person. Actions will show you if we mean what we say. Words are a dime a dozen.

 

I trust myself fully now to run my own life. *I* am there for me for the first time in my life.....and it's a good feeling. I need myself. I take care of me first. Yes, I said it...I take care of me first. Then everyone else is icing on the cake. Then I have a little energy to give and receive. You'll be able to enjoy what they have the ability to give... and most of the time it is not 100% and that will be OK if you are looking after yourself..... That's what I have learned. This has been my experience in life so far. Just my 2 cents worth.....

 

I wish you the best my friend.

 

Hug

[Deva]

Just an offhand observation. People don't like to hear too much honesty in a relationship. That is from my experience. I think I have just lost a friendship because I think I was too honest. If I see a problem, I don't mince words, and I get very decisive and blunt. Sometimes, it may come off as arrogant, patronizing or self-righteous. The internet and e-mail makes this even more tempting to do than it used to be. I don't know, I am just speculating.

 

I suppose I am not too good at sugarcoating things at my age.

[Ellinas]

I have every sympathy with the state you describe, Angus.  I've always been a "man of few friends".  I have found a small number of online contacts and an even smaller number of people in the "real world" that I regard as trustworthy - primarily because they've proven their capacity to keep a confidence, make no demands and offer support (or at least be straight about it when they are not in a position to offer support).

 

I would not now regard any of my Christian contacts as true "friends" as I suspect they would react to knowledge of my current views with anything from a determination to gossip and make trouble through to outright hatred (dressed up as "cutting me off in love", whatever that is supposed to mean).

 

Though I do wonder whether the mindset to "trust few if anyone and care nothing of it" is symptomatic of the independence that leads to deconversion.

 

Deva - was the person to whom you refer every truly a "friend" anyway?  That's a noun that tends to be used both freely and inaccurately of acquaintances, after all.  Not saying it wasn't a friendship - just that it might be worth re-examining.

[Deva]

Elianas - I guess whether or not the person was a "friend or not" would depend on the individual person's idea of what friendship means. Yes, I think it is worth examining.

[Guest Furball]

Outside of the internet, I actually have no friends at all right now that live near me. What can I say, angus, I am 56 years old and I don't know if I will ever have any more friends. I have to accept that.

 

I recently lost another one (yesterday). Why do people wait until the holidays to spring this news that "I no longer want to be your friend"? A mystery.

When i left xtianity, i lost all my friends. Outside the internet, i too have no actual friends that live near me either. I have accepted the fact that i will never have another friend ever again in my life. -sad but true

[Xerces]

I'm accepting new friend applications and you all fit the criteria, if you gift me deviled egg potato salad I'll love you forever. On a more down to earth note, yeah people suck, but it seems to get easier to gauge whether or not people deserve trust just by observation. Not so much over the internet though, body language goes a long way.