mymistake Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Since I'm on ignore I might as well go for broke. . . . Does End3 know that his family exists? . . . Sure, he can believe they do, but does he actually live as if they are a set of unverifiable beliefs? . . . The acid test of a belief is to live it out - not just pay lip service to it. (As in Christianity.) . . . For End to be consistent, his family HAVE to be just another set of unverifiable beliefs to him. . . . Really..? End cannot know if his family exists unless he is wrong about subjectivity and objectivity. But that can't be the case because he stakes his faith in Jesus on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Geez, kinda looks like your posting to yourself..... So E3, when I get to the Pearly Gates and Jesus says "Depart from me, I never knew you", Didn't get the memo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey101 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Geez, kinda looks like your posting to yourself..... So E3, when I get to the Pearly Gates and Jesus says "Depart from me, I never knew you", Didn't get the memo? You already got the memo that you're a dumbass, but you didn't read it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Geez, kinda looks like your posting to yourself..... So E3, when I get to the Pearly Gates and Jesus says "Depart from me, I never knew you", Didn't get the memo? Please expand on this and explain to me why you didn't quote my entire post, Justus. I'm somewhat of an amateur asshat myself from time to time, but once in a while I like to see a professional work. Do go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 When were christians EVER honest? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey101 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 When were christians EVER honest? Just because someone talks real to End doesn't mean anything. We shouldn't be surprised at the lack of comprehension. Embedded religious beliefs cloud normal thinking, and isn't going to just disappear because someone tries talking sense to them. Breaking indoctrination takes a lot of time and personal searching on the part of the individual. The inner voice of morality that's been silenced by fundamentalism needs to be recognized and grow, but unless there's some serious shaking up going on, it's not going to be heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Putting more and more people on ignore is a sign of defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 So E3, when I get to the Pearly Gates and Jesus says "Depart from me, I never knew you", I can tell him that it was the fault of my subjective brain that I stopped believing? Do you think that will really work there? This isn't rhetorical, I really need an answer for this. No, I don't think that is a valid reason. Had this discussion with friend the other day. People commune with "God" via many different methods....prayer, meditation, nature, etc. I am thinking that our personal joy/satisfaction would have no purpose if we could not share it with others. In that, I think we are to "know" God through those means and then share that knowledge with others. A subjective mind shouldn't hinder that imo. And because this knowledge is bound by subjectivity, personal sacrifice is required to know or understand each other. I guess it would be interesting if we my do that objectively, but that would open it's own can of worms. Good question D. I had to think about that one and am still unsure of my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Putting more and more people on ignore is a sign of defeat. No it's a sign of personal responsibility that you were advocating. neener neener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 So E3, when I get to the Pearly Gates and Jesus says "Depart from me, I never knew you", I can tell him that it was the fault of my subjective brain that I stopped believing? Do you think that will really work there? This isn't rhetorical, I really need an answer for this. No, I don't think that is a valid reason. Had this discussion with friend the other day. People commune with "God" via many different methods....prayer, meditation, nature, etc. I am thinking that our personal joy/satisfaction would have no purpose if we could not share it with others. In that, I think we are to "know" God through those means and then share that knowledge with others. A subjective mind shouldn't hinder that imo. And because this knowledge is bound by subjectivity, personal sacrifice is required to know or understand each other. I guess it would be interesting if we my do that objectively, but that would open it's own can of worms. Good question D. I had to think about that one and am still unsure of my answer. Objectively, communication with God shows the exact same results as communication with Luke Skywalker. You can pray to Luke Skywalker. You can meditate on Luke Skywalker. You can look for Skywalker in nature. Objectively, both Skywalker and God give the same kind of "answers". It is not possible to know God without objective evidence to verify facts and events. If somebody came up to your and told you he has a personal relationship with Luke Skywalker you would think he is either crazy or making fun of your religion. Believing he is right is the last thing you would ever do. Yet look at what you expect of everyone else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 4, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2015 People commune with "God" via many different methods....prayer, meditation, nature, etc. This is a subjective statement without any objective proof. People attempt to commune with god; but there simply isn't any compelling evidence that anyone has ever been successful. In that, I think we are to "know" God through those means and then share that knowledge with others. "god" cannot be known since "god" is a subjective belief and not an objective reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 By why have faith in anything, End..? Let alone Jesus? As StillLooking pointed out (weeks ago, now) your faith is just as subjective as everything else in your unknowable and unavoidably subjective reality. There's no benefit, gain or advantage to you or anyone else if you go with faith in him. If everything is unavoidably subjective, your choice to have faith in anything is... ...inexplicable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 No, I don't think that is a valid reason. Had this discussion with friend the other day. People commune with "God" via many different methods....prayer, meditation, nature, etc. I am thinking that our personal joy/satisfaction would have no purpose if we could not share it with others. In that, I think we are to "know" God through those means and then share that knowledge with others. A subjective mind shouldn't hinder that imo. And because this knowledge is bound by subjectivity, personal sacrifice is required to know or understand each other. I guess it would be interesting if we my do that objectively, but that would open it's own can of worms. Good question D. I had to think about that one and am still unsure of my answer. First you claim to know the likely outcome of Dude's non-immortal non-soul at the nonexistent Pearly Gates, then you claim that when people pray there is a god to listen to them, then you assume there is a god for people to know. People who don't wear god goggles think that assuming anyone can know such things is a leap too far from objective reality. Putting more and more people on ignore is a sign of defeat. No it's a sign of personal responsibility that you were advocating. neener neener. Guess I'm not on ignore then. Personal responsibility is a good thing, it's related to thinking for oneself instead of believing in the stories told by others that have no objective evidence to back them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey101 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 So E3, when I get to the Pearly Gates and Jesus says "Depart from me, I never knew you", I can tell him that it was the fault of my subjective brain that I stopped believing? Do you think that will really work there? This isn't rhetorical, I really need an answer for this. No, I don't think that is a valid reason. Had this discussion with friend the other day. People commune with "God" via many different methods....prayer, meditation, nature, etc. I am thinking that our personal joy/satisfaction would have no purpose if we could not share it with others. In that, I think we are to "know" God through those means and then share that knowledge with others. A subjective mind shouldn't hinder that imo. And because this knowledge is bound by subjectivity, personal sacrifice is required to know or understand each other. I guess it would be interesting if we my do that objectively, but that would open it's own can of worms. Good question D. I had to think about that one and am still unsure of my answer. Different religions don't communicate with the Christian God via prayer, meditation, nature, etc. They aren't Christians. Also, Christianity is the religion that believes in heavy proselytizing, don't assume others also 'share that knowledge' like yours does. No, most religions don't try to save the heathens that believe differently, ruining cultures in the name of bigotry, disguised as love like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Again, you assume that your beliefs apply to everyone, like a good fundamentalist is supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 So E3, when I get to the Pearly Gates and Jesus says "Depart from me, I never knew you", I can tell him that it was the fault of my subjective brain that I stopped believing? Do you think that will really work there? This isn't rhetorical, I really need an answer for this. No, I don't think that is a valid reason. Had this discussion with friend the other day. People commune with "God" via many different methods....prayer, meditation, nature, etc. I am thinking that our personal joy/satisfaction would have no purpose if we could not share it with others. In that, I think we are to "know" God through those means and then share that knowledge with others. A subjective mind shouldn't hinder that imo. And because this knowledge is bound by subjectivity, personal sacrifice is required to know or understand each other. I guess it would be interesting if we my do that objectively, but that would open it's own can of worms. Good question D. I had to think about that one and am still unsure of my answer. Different religions don't communicate with the Christian God via prayer, meditation, nature, etc. They aren't Christians. Also, Christianity is the religion that believes in heavy proselytizing, don't assume others also 'share that knowledge' like yours does. No, most religions don't try to save the heathens that believe differently, ruining cultures in the name of bigotry, disguised as love like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Again, you assume that your beliefs apply to everyone, like a good fundamentalist is supposed to. Mike, it's a matter of choice for me. If I feel good, then I like to share. No biggie. It's not a crime against humanity. Consider my beliefs mine. As I told you, I like to discuss theology and contemplate crap. Please don't take it as anything more than that. The reason I say that is you seem peeved at me for expressing my opinion. I've been to Christian forums and yeah, it's extremely subjective bordering on wild. I kind of appreciate the more objective look at Christianity and this site supports my "engagement" even though it's a bit heated at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 So E3, when I get to the Pearly Gates and Jesus says "Depart from me, I never knew you", I can tell him that it was the fault of my subjective brain that I stopped believing? Do you think that will really work there? This isn't rhetorical, I really need an answer for this. No, I don't think that is a valid reason. Had this discussion with friend the other day. People commune with "God" via many different methods....prayer, meditation, nature, etc. I am thinking that our personal joy/satisfaction would have no purpose if we could not share it with others. In that, I think we are to "know" God through those means and then share that knowledge with others. A subjective mind shouldn't hinder that imo. And because this knowledge is bound by subjectivity, personal sacrifice is required to know or understand each other. I guess it would be interesting if we my do that objectively, but that would open it's own can of worms. Good question D. I had to think about that one and am still unsure of my answer. Different religions don't communicate with the Christian God via prayer, meditation, nature, etc. They aren't Christians. Also, Christianity is the religion that believes in heavy proselytizing, don't assume others also 'share that knowledge' like yours does. No, most religions don't try to save the heathens that believe differently, ruining cultures in the name of bigotry, disguised as love like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Again, you assume that your beliefs apply to everyone, like a good fundamentalist is supposed to. Mike, it's a matter of choice for me. If I feel good, then I like to share. No biggie. It's not a crime against humanity. Consider my beliefs mine. As I told you, I like to discuss theology and contemplate crap. Please don't take it as anything more than that. The reason I say that is you seem peeved at me for expressing my opinion. I've been to Christian forums and yeah, it's extremely subjective bordering on wild. I kind of appreciate the more objective look at Christianity and this site supports my "engagement" even though it's a bit heated at times. No, End! EVERYTHING is subjective, remember...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Lion's Den Rules Attention "True Christians™" and former Christians. This is the section of the board where Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on will be more-or-less tolerated. Aggressive evangelism is permitted in this section, but aggressive evangelists should be ready to be met by equally aggressive resistance. An occasionally heated response is allowed and sometimes even encouraged. However, all posters to the Lion's Den are still expected to adhere the general rules of decorum as delineated in the Forum Guidelines. In other words, conversations in the Lion's Den are intended to be permissively unrestrained without devolving into repetitious verbal abuse. Those who are identified as repeatedly abusive -- in this section or any section of this website -- may be suspended or banned from posting without notice. Note: In view of the fiery nature of the discussions which occur in the Lion's Den, only those with a fairly thick skin should participate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, End! Your "engagement" is not supported by this site - it is... tolerated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey101 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Mike, it's a matter of choice for me. If I feel good, then I like to share. No biggie. It's not a crime against humanity. Consider my beliefs mine. As I told you, I like to discuss theology and contemplate crap. Please don't take it as anything more than that. The reason I say that is you seem peeved at me for expressing my opinion. I've been to Christian forums and yeah, it's extremely subjective bordering on wild. I kind of appreciate the more objective look at Christianity and this site supports my "engagement" even though it's a bit heated at times. If you consider your beliefs yours, why would you come to an ex-Christian forum and try to prove God exists because of relationships, or whatever it was that you said proved your religious beliefs? Yes, this site allows Christians to try to proselytize in certain sub-forums. And when you do, of course you're going to get slammed. But you don't understand why because you really have no idea what you're doing. It's bordering on wild that you think giving your Christian opinion on an ex-Christian website is just innocent communication. But of course you wouldn't do anything wrong. Your road is paved with good intentions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Mike, it's a matter of choice for me. If I feel good, then I like to share. No biggie. It's not a crime against humanity. When your beliefs include that it is okay for God to order genocide it is offensive. You can expect your opinion to be meet with an appropriate reception. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Mike, it's a matter of choice for me. If I feel good, then I like to share. No biggie. It's not a crime against humanity. When your beliefs include that it is okay for God to order genocide it is offensive. You can expect your opinion to be meet with an appropriate reception. Y'all have made that abundantly clear....may we move on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey101 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Y'all have made that abundantly clear....may we move on.... We have moved on, that's why we have clarity on things that you're not able to address. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Mike, it's a matter of choice for me. If I feel good, then I like to share. No biggie. It's not a crime against humanity. When your beliefs include that it is okay for God to order genocide it is offensive. You can expect your opinion to be meet with an appropriate reception. Y'all have made that abundantly clear....may we move on.... Can you? You are the one telling us to not take offense at you sharing your pro-Godly genocide opinion even though you are the Christian preaching Christianity in an ex-Chrstian forum. We have also made it abundantly clear that there is an objective reality but you are not moving forward on that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Ok End, I'm on ignore... But can those folks you aren't (yet) ignoring, get an apology and/or a retraction from you... ? Re: this... "...this site supports my "engagement" even though it's a bit heated at times." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 If everything is subjective then you are the only one who exists and this is all in your head. There is no possibility of a relationship with anyone or anything because you are all that is. Think carefully on this… it has a deep implication. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 If everything is subjective then you are the only one who exists and this is all in your head. There is no possibility of a relationship with anyone or anything because you are all that is. Think carefully on this… it has a deep implication. That's solipsism, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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