chefranden Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 What is ..... a rock? -Dennis I suppose you mean as opposed to Consciousness? It is matter that is organized differently than that which is organized to produce consciousness. It is matter that is organized in a way that produces rockiness. I hope that gets at what you are asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOIL Posted May 8, 2005 Author Share Posted May 8, 2005 ...It is matter that is organized differently than that which is organized to produce consciousness. It is matter that is organized in a way that produces rockiness. ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who was smart enough to make some of that kind of matter? (i.e the kind "which is organized to produce consciousness") Man, that dude must be even smarter than me and my wife! Though we were able to direct some of that life-producing "organized matter" in order to end up with our daughters, I don't think either one of us is smart enough to produce any of that kind of matter without using some of it in the process (chicken or egg first?) -Dennis edited in P.S. (btw, is that "organized matter" stuff anything like SOIL - Signs Of Intelligent Life) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Who was smart enough to make some of that kind of matter? Why does it have to be made by someone? Why can't it just exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpooky Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Well, Johnie, Are your Mom and Dad real? Am I and Nanna real? You know how we say God made people? Well, none of us are smart enough to know how to make ourselves. So, since we are real, I guess God must be real too. This is a very poorly constructed proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 This is a very poorly constructed proof. Very true. It's like taking a tomato out of your garden and saying "well, I planted that tomato, so I made it," and putting that tomato by a computer and saying "well, if I made the tomato, and this computer exists, then logically I made this computer. And since I have a TV over here, well, I guess I made that, too." It's a logical fallacy to assume that because something exists, it was made by the same person. Or even made at all. Just because there is a rock by the shore of a stream, doesn't mean someone waved a magic wand and created them (which essentially is what the Biblical myth says in a nutshell). It's a myth, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Even more logical fallacy to assume that it had to be the Xtian god if it was made by intelligent design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpooky Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 And of course even granting the concept of intelligent design is too generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Well, Johnie, Are your Mom and Dad real? Am I and Nanna real? You know how we say God made people? Well, none of us are smart enough to know how to make ourselves. So, since we are real, I guess God must be real too. -Dennis But Papaw, who was smart enough to make God? Umm... Papaw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Who was smart enough to make some of that kind of matter? (i.e the kind "which is organized to produce consciousness") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Man, that dude must be even smarter than me and my wife! Though we were able to direct some of that life-producing "organized matter" in order to end up with our daughters, I don't think either one of us is smart enough to produce any of that kind of matter without using some of it in the process (chicken or egg first?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -Dennis edited in P.S. (btw, is that "organized matter" stuff anything like SOIL - Signs Of Intelligent Life) ? Who? There are no whos apart from material whos. First comes the organization of matter then comes a who. I know it's a bummer for you, but matter is self organizing. Put some iron and oxygen in close proximity and pretty soon you have rust. Organization is one of the things matter does, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You and your wife did produce the material needed to make your daughters. It is not a thing that requires conscious knowhow to happen -- Fish, beetles, dragonflies, mice, moles, etc. and so on can all do it without any conscious knowledge of how to do it. If you didn't consciously know anything about digestion could you still digest? If you didn't consciously know anything about healing, would your cut finger still heal? Conscious intelligence is not the top of the heap we suppose it to be. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't get the last question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Conscious intelligence is not the top of the heap we suppose it to be. Heh...so is unconscious intelligence at the top of the heap then? What about unconscious unintelligence? Or conscious unintelligence (wait, that's what fundies do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Well, Johnie, Are your Mom and Dad real? Am I and Nanna real? You know how we say God made people? Well, none of us are smart enough to know how to make ourselves. So, since we are real, I guess God must be real too. I assume this was an actual conversation with a 5 year old and not merely a seriously flawed argument for the eixstence of whatever "god" means stated in childish terms as an intentional insult to everyone here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOIL Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 This is as close to an actual verbatim transcript as memory allows. Regarding "seriously flawed" and/or "stated in childish terms" - I suppose that has been (and could continue to be) debated. As far as I am capable of actually knowing (accurately?) what motivates me - I don't think - I was trying to insult anyone (much less everyone) here. -Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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