Explaining Myself To My Mentor

[Penguin]

My mentor is a Christian. He and I met six years ago over a common interest in writing. Thankfully, he is not one who has let Christianity turn him into a hateful, abusive person. Still, when I told him I was having doubts, he said he wanted to talk with me. He led me to some articles he had written about some of the questions I had. I'm meeting with him this Thursday to see if I can explain where I'm at. For the foreseeable future, I am a skeptic. I may come back around to Christianity after some time, but I can guarantee it won't look anything like fundamentalism (the most vicious form of Christianity, in my opinion). Nevertheless, I go where the evidence goes. Here is a letter I've written to get my thoughts out about where I'm at. I don't know if I'll show this to my mentor or not, but it's the gist of how I feel about my "conversion to reality." I changed the standard salutation to "To Whom It Concerns" for the anonymity of my mentor.

 

To Whom It Concerns:

 

            The choice to leave my religion behind is not one I arrived at quickly. Christianity has been a part of my life since I was born, and my own declaration of faith has haunted me since I was five years old. I made a choice when I did not have all the information, and that choice has made me weaker as an individual.

            At the age of five, I followed in the footsteps of my sister to become a Christian. I had no idea what that meant, except that there was a ceremony called a baptism, everyone liked it, and people seemed to look highly upon those who became Christians. So, I prayed a prayer without realizing what I was doing, and I was baptized.

            When I was six years old, I was sexually traumatized by a family member. Shortly thereafter I became a masturbation addict. This same family member traumatized me again at seven, eight, nine, ten, and eleven. I was also molested by a peer at school at the age of ten. At eleven years old, I discovered pornography in the form of biker magazines about the rallies in Sturgis during the 1970s. Around this time, I became sexually involved in online chatrooms (“cybersex”).

            Within three years, I became involved with softcore pornography in the form of underwear advertisements online. A week after that first visit to an underwear ad, I was introduced via other sites to the concepts of BDSM and roleplaying. Within six weeks, I began participating in incest-themed roleplaying online.

            Outside of the sexual aspect of my childhood, I was prone to violence. At the age of seven, I was assaulted physically by peers, in addition to being threatened with violence. These threats and actions continued from the age of seven until the age of fifteen. I was shoved, punched, tripped, and my personal property was destroyed and defaced (books ripped, clothes torn, locker smeared with human feces, etc.).

            When I attempted to alert adults to these instances, the specifics were sometimes dealt with, but the greater problem was not. I was made to believe I brought the abuse upon myself, and I was never in a position to tell anyone in my life about my sexual abuse until I was nearly 30 years old. Prior to that, my claims of abuse were dismissed as an overreaction, or to offset the blame from myself to someone else for an unrelated action.

            Authorities both at church and at school were often biased in their views of situations in which I was involved. Church authorities did not entertain explanations of events, but often punished both parties involved in an incident. At school, I was often ganged up on by witnesses, and teachers often sided with the majority. Consequently, I was seen as a troublemaker and “the boy who cried wolf.”

            Of course, lest I should be accused of trying to make myself a saint, I was far from it. Like any child, I did make my own share of trouble. However, I was often eager to do the right thing and avoid trouble, which made it all the worse when it found me. I did (and do) have issues with passive aggression, and I do have issues with authority because of the failures of the earliest and most important authorities in my life.

            Religion, unfortunately, was a central part of my childhood. It permeated everything done by my family, and so everything was seen through a religious lens. I was made to believe that I was never going to be good enough for God, that I would always sin, that I deserved Hell, and that everything I did to disappoint God was my fault. Furthermore, I was made to believe that any anger an authority felt toward me was my fault.

            Growing up, I was told not to “tell on others” when I witnessed them doing wrong; during several instances, I was made to suffer punishment for bringing wrongdoing to light. I saw this as a moral failure of authority, and consequently lost faith in any authority who held the same view of “tattletales.” Also for this reason, I felt anyone who could do anything about the abuse I suffered wouldn’t hear of it.

            In short, my religious upbringing taught me some very foul things about myself. I did not get a sense of self-respect or love or joy or anything good from religion. Growing up, it became clear to me that religion was useful for keeping people in line with a certain expectation of conduct by using guilt.

            Does God exist? I don’t know, but if I had to make a determination based on what I’ve experienced, I’d lean toward “no.” The Bible promises that God is a life-changing force, but for the majority of those I’ve met who claim to follow this life-changing force, there is only justification for hatred and guilt-tripping, sprinkled with bits about love and joy and mercy.

            My intention for now (and for the foreseeable future) is to gather the evidence and information I should have had for that first decision: whether or not to follow Jesus. I was ignorant of the theology then, and I did not have the life experience to make such an important decision. So, I’m starting the investigation anew. Clean out the closets—including all the bad information and experiences—and start over.

            Can I ignore what happened to me? No. That’s always going to be with me. However, I can deal with it and come to a point where I can function in spite of it. That’s the goal: find the truth, move on from the past. If it works, do it. If it doesn’t work, don’t do it.

[Sparky]

Good luck! I did some research from the other perspective ( how to convert an sceptic/atheist ) - I hope that is a fair assessment of your mentor's purpose here ( or strengthening your faith, etc ). Its just fair to remember that his purpose will not be analysing the evidence and providing a reasonable conjecture from that - it would be from a faith based foundation, and how it has benefited his life. Anything else used will be to support that premise, namely, that faith can be trusted. Since he hasn't yet won the Nobel prize for the discovery of god, its fair to assume he isn't relying solely on evidence for this discussion.

 

Hope it goes well, enjoy the chat!

[♦ ficino ♦]

Jesus holy Christ, wtf! I am so sorry to hear about all this you had to endure, Penguin. No kid should have to grow up under those conditions.  I'm glad you pushed on and are where you are today.

 

One lesson coming through to me from your story is the simple one that shit happens.  And some shit is a lot deeper than other shit. A big thing is to keep your head above it.  And you've done that.  I won't pronounce on where God was during any of it, cause the usual answer is some form of, He was trying to... blah blah, plus to add that the collateral damage of allowing Free Will is something that God is OK with.

 

When I was slipping away from Christianity, I would accuse myself, "your doubts are just because you're gay.  You're not willing to carry the cross." And so on.  But enough things happened, or I became aware of enough thing, to show that what seemed like God's absence in my life was across the board with huge, huge numbers of people - little believing kids' whose prayers for other people's healings went unheard, and on and on. It was obvious that the problem with theism wasn't just me or my experience.

 

Citsonga wrote a 30+ letter to his parents when he deconverted, explaining his reasons.  It's very good, and it's on here somewhere.  Or maybe you can PM him and he'll send you or repost a copy. 

 

If you do decide to go back to Christianity, I am confident that it will be in a form that works good for you, and helps you do the same for others.  I'm guessing that you may very well never go back.

 

Peace, f

[Penguin]

My mentor is an aeronautical engineer. He's very level-headed. He and I disagree on religion, but he can--at the very least--provide reasonable logic as to why he believes. That is to say, he's not one who will tell you he "feels" God, or that "he just has faith." Yes, he has faith, but he doesn't deny that's what it takes. He also has reasoned arguments for his beliefs. All in all, he's not pushy with his faith, and I don't believe he's going to try to "convert me back." His aim would be to make himself available for discussion.

 

I appreciate the input, but I do want to make it clear that my mentor is neither stupid nor crazy. From our perspective, he's--at worst--misguided. He is a fair-minded man who is one of the best people I have ever known, and he has saved my life on more than one occasion. I hope that explains why I would bother with explaining my conversion to reality to him in the first place; I feel I owe that to him, since he often let me approach him with questions and concerns, and he went out of his way to help me when he absolutely did not have to.

 

If every Christian was like my mentor, I'd probably still be a Christian, because I'd see the evidence that God changes lives for the better. I've told you what I have about my mentor, but that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of how "God has worked in his life," as he puts it. If it was more than a handful of lives I've interacted with, I'd still believe in God.

[Sparky]

I really wish you the best with it Penguin. He sounds like one fucking good friend to be honest. 

[Penguin]

I really wish you the best with it Penguin. He sounds like one fucking good friend to be honest. 

 

Thank you. He really is the best of people. He and his wife, both.

[Ellinas]

The only question I have is as to why he wishes to discuss religion with you if it is not to try to (re) convert you...

 

I may be doing him a disservice, but I sense some level of pressure being brought to bear.

 

Sorry to read of the troubles you've endured, by the way.

[Penguin]

The only question I have is as to why he wishes to discuss religion with you if it is not to try to (re) convert you...

 

I may be doing him a disservice, but I sense some level of pressure being brought to bear.

 

Sorry to read of the troubles you've endured, by the way.

 

He wants to understand exactly where I'm at, just to keep tabs on how I'm doing. He and I have the kind of relationship where he is aware of what's going on in my life so he can help me if/when he needs to.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Penguin, I'm sorry to hear about all that you've gone through. I certainly wish you the best as you move forward in life from such hardships.

 

He wants to understand exactly where I'm at, just to keep tabs on how I'm doing. He and I have the kind of relationship where he is aware of what's going on in my life so he can help me if/when he needs to.

 

Although I doubt that a true believer could really "understand exactly where" an ex-christian is coming from, if that is his honest intention, then kudos to him for that. Hopefully this relationship remains positive and mutually beneficial.

 

Citsonga wrote a 30+ letter to his parents when he deconverted, explaining his reasons.  It's very good, and it's on here somewhere.  Or maybe you can PM him and he'll send you or repost a copy.

 

Thanks for the props. It was actually several years after I deconverted that I wrote the letter, but it's available in the thread linked in my signature (the final version is downloadable from post #13).

 

Penguin, good luck. (Penguins are awesome, by the way!)

[BinkleyBoo]

holy shit

words fail. had no idea. this makes me so sad and angry. I want to scream. and do bodily harm to those needing it

[Penguin]

holy shit

words fail. had no idea. this makes me so sad and angry. I want to scream. and do bodily harm to those needing it

 

I was there, and I did all of that. Now, through the journey I've traveled, I've learned the best revenge is to live a damn good life; that means I can no longer ascribe to a religion or proclaimed truth that enforces an abusive relationship between deity and peon.