Christians, Would You Plead For Us In The Final Judgment?

[scotter]

Christians,

 

One day, the final judgment comes. You are one in the audience, in your bright silvery white robe, with the harp in your hands, by the side of Jesus the King, judging us children of Satan in our chains…..

 

Jesus points his finger to a distant dark place and tells us, “Here is the eternal Hell Fire, off you go!”

As you see in the darkness, is the expansive sea of fire in its heartless redness,

would you plead on behalf of us that we get to Heaven with you?

“My Lord, despite they didn’t believe You, let them not suffer in that horrible fire.”

 

If your answer is No, it is fine. I have no comments for this answer from you, a Christian.

 

If your answer is Yes, I salute you one first….

but then can I ask you to treat us with compassion, kindness, understanding and respect right now?

If you can be merciful at that moment, I am sure you can be merciful right now. Jesus said, “Blessed are the merciful.....”

 

So would someday I hear you say, “Despite you don’t believe Jesus, I hope you would join me and we all go to Heaven.”

 

If your answer is Yes, and you have a meek doubt, “Yes, I shall plead for you, but I am not sure if God would listen to me. For God is a God of just.” You had my salutation, and let’s observe God’s mercy.

 

Christians, your argument on Hell is because God is just.

 

Say, if God grants you mercy, promising you, “If you plead for them, I shall heed you. Some I can pardon them that I grant them right to Heaven; some serious offenders, they would be responsible for their deeds, but they will also get to Heaven after their penalties are due. None shall dwell and suffer there forever.”

 

God reiterates, “If you plead for them, I shall heed you.”

 

If granted the power of mercy, Christians, would you plead for us at that moment, so we enter the Gate of Heaven with you?

What will your answer be?

 

-----

 

Now, really ponder in your heart, on the meanings of the terms “judgment”, and “final judgment”.

 

 

Scotter.

[SkepticOfBible]

You read my mind man. I often felt like asking christians about the same question.

[Fweethawt]

I'm expecting to hear, "Our God is an unchanging God! If your name was in The Book of Life™ from the beginning of Eternity Past™, then you shall inherit The Kingdom™. If not, then to Hell with you!"

 

But then again, you may not get any responses to this thread at all.

[Pariah]

When I was a Christian I thought about that a little.

[NotBlinded]

They really should be careful how they answer that question because it could very well contradict what they view as just and merciful.

 

If they answer yes, they would be seen as questioning god's judgement regardless of their feelings of mercy.

 

If they answer no, they would be seen as prideful. Is an ego allowed in heaven?

 

Catch 22 that should put the doctrine of hell in the trash where it belongs.

[scotter]

I wait for a while to see Christians’ responses…..

(And Open Mind, Amanda, I was not addressing to you, I know you would plead for us. )

 

And thanks NB for your perspective, here is mine:

 

Christians, if your answer is ‘Yes’, and ‘Yes’ to the two questions, know that you are human, granted mercy from God, and you would exercise such an immense compassion;

 

would not God, the Originator of mercy who grants you one, in His unfathomable depth, knows even better how to balance love and just, and shine forth His unfathomable Compassion?

 

 

If your answer is ‘Yes’, your very own conscience and kindness have dismantled fundamental evangelical Christian theology.

 

If your answer is ‘No’, your answer in its demonstration of heartlessness has dismantled fundamental evangelical Christian theology.

[Ouroboros]

Yeah, if the Christian would plead for us, wouldn't that show that a human had more compassion and mercy than God himself? Bascially, humans have a more loving heart than God? Then God isn't so loving and compassionate after all.

[NotBlinded]

Yeah, if the Christian would plead for us, wouldn't that show that a human had more compassion and mercy than God himself? Bascially, humans have a more loving heart than God? Then God isn't so loving and compassionate after all.

Well, not the one they worship anyway. I would say that this leads to the truth of the matter. If god is loving and compassionate, and people are loving and compassionate and we are naturally loving and compassionate, where would that put god (not the concept)?

[Ouroboros]

Well, not the one they worship anyway. I would say that this leads to the truth of the matter. If god is loving and compassionate, and people are loving and compassionate and we are naturally loving and compassionate, where would that put god (not the concept)?

Yet another argument for that it was not "man created in the image of God", but God was created in the image of man.

[euphgeek]

One day, the final judgment comes. You are one in the audience, in your bright silvery white robe, with the harp in your hands, by the side of Jesus the King, judging us children of Satan in our chains…..

 

Jesus points his finger to a distant dark place and tells us, “Here is the eternal Hell Fire, off you go!”

As you see in the darkness, is the expansive sea of fire in its heartless redness,

would you plead on behalf of us that we get to Heaven with you?

“My Lord, despite they didn’t believe You, let them not suffer in that horrible fire.”

You know, that was the question I asked myself shortly before I deconverted. I'm sure fundy Xtians would say that that was when Satan got his claws on me, but if Satan causes people to think compassionately, then I'll give a big "Hail Satan!" I much prefer a system of reincarnation and Karma, where you're allowed to try again and again. Not to believe the right way, but to learn to act compassionately.

[txviper]

There will be no point in believers pleading for you. What they think about you or your fate is of no consequence. Mercy, in God’s economy, is not a “be a good sport and give us a break” issue. There has to be a basis for it. You are either regenerate and complete or you are not. Destiny vs. fate.

 

There are two phases to judgment for unbelievers. The first is temporal confinement and punishment in what is called torments, the hot side of sheol. This will be your residence and jailing for over a thousand years, were you to die at this moment. This death of your body is the first death. When this happens, your name will be stricken from the book of life. You will have right up until the last conscious seconds of your life to prevent this. After that it will be stark terror and unimaginable regret.

 

At the end of the millennial reign, it will be time for you to stand in front of your Creator at the Great White Throne. You will be all alone, though all the losers who steered your faith towards asinine concepts, will be assembled with you. No advocates, no counsel and no possible appeals. You will have to try and justify yourself on the basis of your works in this life. Your sins will not be an issue. You will be found incomplete and unqualified. Your sins cannot now destroy you, nor will your works, no matter how impressive, be able to deliver you. You will have used your own volition to deliberately choose the second death, which is the destruction of your soul in the lake of fire.

 

There is room to debate whether or not this means annihilation or eternal, conscious punishment. I believe that there are categories and degrees involved. Those who were just lost as opposed to those who willfully and knowingly established satanic alliance for themselves.

[euphgeek]

Txviper, please point out in the Bible where it says that a person can only repent before they die. I've heard many Christians say this, but absolutely none have ever been able to point me to the exact scripture that says this is the case.

 

It may surprise you to learn that what you believe is merely delusion. It's true. Jesus did not come to start a religion, but to show people the way to find love in their own hearts. Your personal beliefs are only about you, not about anybody else. If you think you have to preach, proseletyze and always be right, then you do not "get it" yet. You do not know what Jesus knew. One day you will know, and you will realize that the only answer is unconditional love. Until then, you will simply follow your own delusions.

 

Understand that when I say "delusions", I am not saying you are wrong. You just have not yet learned what God/love is. I wish you the best on your life journey, and I hope you find meaning for it.

[Ouroboros]

There will be no point in believers pleading for you. What they think about you or your fate is of no consequence. Mercy, in God’s economy, is not a “be a good sport and give us a break” issue. There has to be a basis for it. You are either regenerate and complete or you are not. Destiny vs. fate.

Conditional mercy?

 

Isn't Destiny and Fate pretty much the same thing?

 

There are two phases to judgment for unbelievers. The first is temporal confinement and punishment in what is called torments, the hot side of sheol. This will be your residence and jailing for over a thousand years, were you to die at this moment. This death of your body is the first death. When this happens, your name will be stricken from the book of life. You will have right up until the last conscious seconds of your life to prevent this. After that it will be stark terror and unimaginable regret.

Never heard that version before. That's a new one.

 

At the end of the millennial reign, it will be time for you to stand in front of your Creator at the Great White Throne. You will be all alone, though all the losers who steered your faith towards asinine concepts, will be assembled with you. No advocates, no counsel and no possible appeals. You will have to try and justify yourself on the basis of your works in this life. Your sins will not be an issue. You will be found incomplete and unqualified. Your sins cannot now destroy you, nor will your works, no matter how impressive, be able to deliver you. You will have used your own volition to deliberately choose the second death, which is the destruction of your soul in the lake of fire.

A couple of questions: You seem to mix if the actions and sins are relevant for the judgment or not. You're saying that sins and actions works only to disadvantage but not advantage? So even if a person has been good his whole life, and done good things, it doesn't help him, but if he has just thought one sin, that is enough to punish him, did I get that right?

 

Second question, how do you choose? What is that choice? What do you choose between? Choice between going to heaven or hell, or to confess Jesus as Lord, or confess the Bible to be true, or what is it? Is it to choose between two fruits, and apple and an orange, and if you choose the orange you go to heaven? Will the conversation with God be like this:

 

God: What do you choose?

 

Me: What are the choices?

 

God: Going to Heaven or Hell!

 

Me: Okay, I choose Heaven.

 

God: Okay, good, you're going to Heaven.

 

There is room to debate whether or not this means annihilation or eternal, conscious punishment. I believe that there are categories and degrees involved. Those who were just lost as opposed to those who willfully and knowingly established satanic alliance for themselves.

You believe? You mean you don't know? Where's the confidence here Tx? I thought you had it all figured out and knew exactly what is going to happen, since you seem to have been there, seen it and have the evidence for this to be exactly the way you say it's going to be.

[Lycorth]

There are two phases to judgment for unbelievers. The first is temporal confinement and punishment in what is called torments, the hot side of sheol. This will be your residence and jailing for over a thousand years, were you to die at this moment. This death of your body is the first death. When this happens, your name will be stricken from the book of life. You will have right up until the last conscious seconds of your life to prevent this. After that it will be stark terror and unimaginable regret.

Never heard that version before. That's a new one.

 

Yeah, me too. In ten years of Xian studies, I never heard that one. I guess P.T. Barnum was right...

 

At the end of the millennial reign, it will be time for you to stand in front of your Creator at the Great White Throne. You will be all alone, though all the losers who steered your faith towards asinine concepts, will be assembled with you.

 

Great White Throne? Does it have many rows of teeth with which to bite and tear prey?

 

And how can I be alone and not alone at the same time?

 

No advocates, no counsel and no possible appeals. You will have to try and justify yourself on the basis of your works in this life. Your sins will not be an issue.

 

Then why avoid sin if it isn't an issue?

 

You will be found incomplete and unqualified. Your sins cannot now destroy you, nor will your works, no matter how impressive, be able to deliver you. You will have used your own volition to deliberately choose the second death, which is the destruction of your soul in the lake of fire.

 

If I'm already damned, then why a trial? Sounds like a mock trial to me. And why would a Jewish tribal god utilize a system of jurisprudence developed by pagan Anglo-Saxons?

 

There is room to debate whether or not this means annihilation or eternal, conscious punishment. I believe that there are categories and degrees involved. Those who were just lost as opposed to those who willfully and knowingly established satanic alliance for themselves.

 

The Holah Babble does not teach this. The OT teaches no such thing period, and the NT talks about eternal burning. There is no mention of "degrees" of hell or whatever. Which is it? And why does the Lard's "perfect revelation" contradict itself?

 

Welcome, therefore, to the Satanic Alliance!™

[scotter]

Thank you for the response, TX. Very slick in the wordings that slip to another direction.

 

The point of the thread is not about we unbelievers asking you to plead for us.

 

The 1st question is about if you would have the heart to plead for the unbelievers when they are there, even though you may believe there is no point for you, a believer, to plead because the authority rests on God.

 

You have answered indirectly the first scenario as ‘No’, because there is no point. Thank you for your answer.

 

You have avoided the 2nd scenario, the if-situation that God has granted you power of mercy, and the authority rests on you.

 

Perhaps we unbelievers are not in anyway related to you, so not a big deal, do ponder on the following:

It is quite common that within a family, maybe one sibling is a born-again Christian, the other siblings, the parents are not believers.

 

Would you plead for your family members, if they are not believers?

And “There is no point pleading for them” still holds? Towards your beloved family members?

 

Lucky you if your whole family are born-again Christians, how about your cousins? Grandparents? Somehow there are relatives in your family tree who are not Christians.

 

If this time you will plead for immediate family members and relatives, then what is your demarcation of “immediate “ and “distant” relatives to plead for?

[Ouroboros]

What's interesting is the story about the rich man that went to hell, and he was pleading to Abraham for his family. This man had a passionate heart. He felt for his family in the midst of his pain and suffering. He went to hell because he was rich (and I assume he didn't pay his 1/10, and that's the reason he went there.)

[Lycorth]

I think the answer is "no" - after all, Xian fundyism gives Xians a place to vent their virulent hatred; unbelievers. They won't let go of the hate that their god says is ok for them to have, so they would say "no" on Judgement Day. They get to have a righteously indignant blast watching all the eeevil sinners burn because their god backs them up all the way.

 

And, frankly, that's Babblical. So much for the "god of love".

[scotter]

At the end of the millennial reign, it will be time for you to stand in front of your Creator at the Great White Throne....

 

TX is a Seventh Day Adventist.

 

TX, I invite you and resident members to read this link together:

http://www.macgregorministries.org/seventh...a_2nd_look.html

 

Sigh.....according to MacGregor Ministries, the SDA Church is a cult. They are True Christians and you are not. And in their eschatology, TX you are also joining us and doomed to Hell.

 

"There is no point for you pleading for us" suddenly has a new meaning: because you are also among us in the chains waiting to enter the Gate of Hell.

 

TX, I humbly ask you to take care of yourself - seriously ponder on what I mean by that.

[txviper]

euphgeek,

 

“where it says that a person can only repent before they die”

 

Luke 16:19-31; Luke 23:29-43; Hebrews 9:27

 

 

 

“Jesus did not come to start a religion”

 

10-4, God hates religion

 

 

“but to show people the way to find love in their own hearts”

 

No, it is about God’s integrity and His love in His universal economy. The answer is not “in” fallen creatures. It is quite foreign to them. The natural state of humans is not normal.

 

 

“Your personal beliefs are only about you, not about anybody else. If you think you have to preach, proseletyze and always be right, then you do not "get it" yet.”

 

I don’t do much preaching or proselytizing, at least not here, but I understand where you are coming from. You are wrong. Real discipleship is about comprehension and application of accurate Christian doctrine. It is technical and un-nebulous. When Christ said “Ye therefore do greatly err”, He was making it absolutely clear that right is right and wrong is not.

 

 

“You do not know what Jesus knew.”

 

I totally agree but I can know what He expects me to learn and do as He teaches me to do.

 

 

“One day you will know, and you will realize that the only answer is unconditional love.”

 

To agapao is indeed unconditional but it is broader than that. It is also impersonal and about the integrity of the lover, not the object. It is also mandatory for believers. No excuses. It is why I am here.

 

 

“You just have not yet learned what God/love is.”

 

That would be “who” God is, and “what” love is. God is a person. Distinct from His creation and approachable on terms that are narrow and strict, but lucid and easy.

 

 

“I wish you the best on your life journey, and I hope you find meaning for it.”

 

Thank you for your kind sentiments. But if I’m vaporized on the way to work in the morning, it will only be the end of a tedious thrill and the beginning of an incomprehensible one. I have found it. Perhaps the most profound tragedy is to step over it thinking it is just over the horizon.

 

 

============

 

 

 

Wolfheart,

 

I might be a despicable, sarcastic jackass, but I do not hate anyone. If I found folks like you as repugnant as you think I do, I would not come here.

 

 

============

 

 

I am not SDA and have never been in an SDA building. I am a minimalist. My God is a savior, not some nitpicker standing with his arms folded and tapping his foot wating for us to get it "just right". He said "He that believeth..."

[scotter]

, not some nitpicker standing with his arms folded and tapping his foot wating for us to get it "just right". He said "He that believeth..."

 

TX if you define you are not SDA, it is fine. You don't need to take offence at MacGregor's remarks, but it is educational to know minimalist sharing similar doctrines with SDA.

 

You still miss the point. This is a dramatic scenario presented in the thread, non-believers don't believe in the scenarios described anyway.

 

Thank you again and take care of yourself.

[Lycorth]

Wolfheart,

 

I might be a despicable, sarcastic jackass, but I do not hate anyone. If I found folks like you as repugnant as you think I do, I would not come here.

 

My paragraph about fundies venting their hatred via their beliefs was not directed at you per se, but more of a generalized response to the topic at hand.

 

I am not SDA and have never been in an SDA building. I am a minimalist. My God is a savior, not some nitpicker standing with his arms folded and tapping his foot wating for us to get it "just right". He said "He that believeth..."

 

Good - that's a healthier way to look at the Creator. I hope you stick with that and take it further - that's a much more satisfying road, trust me. I walked down that, and here I am.

 

But I asked a number of questions about the illogicality of your Xian beliefs. Why have you not answered them?

[txviper]

Scotter,

 

"You don't need to take offence"

 

I never do. It is the watermark of immaturity. Some things I read in here are upsetting, but none of the personal stuff ever phases me. I am not the issue.

 

Wolfheart,

 

"Why have you not answered them?"

 

 

Time. I'll get back.

[SkepticOfBible]

 

I don’t do much preaching or proselytizing, at least not here, but I understand where you are coming from. You are wrong. Real discipleship is about comprehension and application of accurate Christian doctrine. It is technical and un-nebulous.

You mean doctrine that are made up by men.

 

When Christ said “Ye therefore do greatly err”, He was making it absolutely clear that right is right and wrong is not.

 

So breaking the Sabbath, celebrating christmas and eating pork is wrong I suppose. I hope you have repented of these sins too.

 

You will have to try and justify yourself on the basis of your works in this life

 

Why would I need to do that in front of omnisceint god?

 

ou will have to try and justify yourself on the basis of your works in this life. Your sins will not be an issue. You will be found incomplete and unqualified. Your sins cannot now destroy you, nor will your works, no matter how impressive, be able to deliver you. You will have used your own volition to deliberately choose the second death, which is the destruction of your soul in the lake of fire.

 

And how are sure that that it is exact thing that is gonna happen?Why is your story of the afterlife different than most christians?

 

which is the destruction of your soul in the lake of fire.

 

I thought we were gonna be tortured forever in the lake of fire?

 

You say that there will be two sort of judgement

 

Do you mean

1)For believers:Degree of Reward

2)For Unbelievers:Degree of Punishment

 

And you haven't told me yet, do unbelievers also include the jews who died in the holocaust/my loved ones/babies?

[euphgeek]

euphgeek,

 

“where it says that a person can only repent before they die”

 

Luke 16:19-31; Luke 23:29-43; Hebrews 9:27

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus - nope, it doesn't say that a person can only repent before they die.

Jesus saying to the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise" - no, that doesn't say anything about that, either.

It is appointed to men to die once and then the judgment - nope, still nothing that says we can't repent after we die (notice it doesn't say how long after we die the judgment is).

“Jesus did not come to start a religion”

 

10-4, God hates religion

That is not entirely true. God does not "hate" because hate is the opposite of God. And religion can be a good thing, because it helps some people (like you and me) on their path to self-realization.

“but to show people the way to find love in their own hearts”

 

No, it is about God’s integrity and His love in His universal economy. The answer is not “in” fallen creatures. It is quite foreign to them. The natural state of humans is not normal.

 

 

“Your personal beliefs are only about you, not about anybody else. If you think you have to preach, proseletyze and always be right, then you do not "get it" yet.”

 

I don’t do much preaching or proselytizing, at least not here, but I understand where you are coming from. You are wrong. Real discipleship is about comprehension and application of accurate Christian doctrine. It is technical and un-nebulous. When Christ said “Ye therefore do greatly err”, He was making it absolutely clear that right is right and wrong is not.

 

“You do not know what Jesus knew.”

 

I totally agree but I can know what He expects me to learn and do as He teaches me to do.

 

“One day you will know, and you will realize that the only answer is unconditional love.”

 

To agapao is indeed unconditional but it is broader than that. It is also impersonal and about the integrity of the lover, not the object. It is also mandatory for believers. No excuses. It is why I am here.

 

“You just have not yet learned what God/love is.”

 

That would be “who” God is, and “what” love is. God is a person. Distinct from His creation and approachable on terms that are narrow and strict, but lucid and easy.

This is what I mean when I say you don't know what God/love is. Everything you have said so far indicates that you are still searching for the answer. There's nothing wrong with that. I am still searching myself.

“I wish you the best on your life journey, and I hope you find meaning for it.”

 

Thank you for your kind sentiments. But if I’m vaporized on the way to work in the morning, it will only be the end of a tedious thrill and the beginning of an incomprehensible one. I have found it. Perhaps the most profound tragedy is to step over it thinking it is just over the horizon.

Your words have some truth to them, but I don't think you realize just how true they are. Once you find what true happiness in this lifetime is, you will not be concerned with "thrills". When you have truly "found it", you will not be concerned with always being right. But for now, this is your path to follow, for better or for worse. It is the right path for you. If you truly learn to love your fellow man, it will be a successful path.

[SkepticOfBible]

BTW I forgot to ask

 

Since you claim that this knowledge has come from god, why is it that God has told christian a different story about the afterlife for the last 2000 years?