Conflict

[knowmad]

Conflict

 

These are a small part of the issues that I have inner conflict about which are interpreted from my abyss journey.

 

Before my deconversion and before I believed in xian god I had two options to believe in, either god existed and created us or we evolved my mere chance. Now since deconverting I have numerous paths for my thoughts to travel on because to me there are now more than two possibilities to consider.

In my limited capacity I can quickly think of 5 possibilities and of course there are more.

 

There is conflict within to establish which information can be believed or established to be factual and trusted as a path of value.

Relative to this conflict are these questions which contain their own conflicting thoughts;

Why travel / progress ?

What am I looking for ?

Why am I looking for it ?

How do I know what I'm looking at is correctly interpeted by me as being something of value/importance ?

If reality is an uncertain quantity and/or quality and I am a part of reality then I am as equally an uncertain quantity and/or quality, or am I apart from reality ?

 

Conflict creates indecisiveness which creates inaction, disorientation, unproductivity and eventually a kind of inner death.

Death of what, purpose, meaning, direction, goals, asperations, desires, both instinctive and formed ?

Are these things worth seeking, are they real or are they just ideals in my head that I choose to create, define and give value to ?

 

I suppose the scary part about the abyss thing was not the conflicting nature of apparently opposing concepts,

but the fall was symbolic of me losing my definition of myself, faith/belief in myself and my perceptions.

And it just gets deeper and deeper.

How do I define myself ?

How do I know that how I percieve myself is correct ?

What is correct and what isn't and how do I define them ?

So the scary part was the abyss just kept going and I couldn't find anything familiar to grab onto, especially trying to establish what could be considered to be something that I could grab onto.

 

Interesting that in the dreams to follow I finally landed and the only thing shown to me was the symbol of man, being love.

 

Another issue is the conflict of retirement and continuation.

Part of me wants to toil away and proceed, assumingly forward, and another to withdraw and just peacefully fade away from the hustle and bustle of life.

I don't mean physical retirement with a gold watch scenario, more like an inner rest, and end to my toil and striving. To go to the river bank of my mind, lay down with my feet dangling in the cool water and with my eyes gazing at the sky, to just slowly and contentedly be.

 

This is why I have conflict with my creativity. I strongly feel I am capable of becoming a successful writer, yet I struggle with all the issues connected with it that I stop myself and I question the values of what I desire to create. I question what motivates me to create, what I desire from it, what purpose does it serve.

Why do I desire what I desire etc fucking etc.

I think about all these issues not only in regards to myself but globally, and I must admit it's when I think globally that's when the tangents really start to overwhelm me.

 

This is just the tip of the iceburg because the more I explore it I keep coming across more and more related tangental issues that must be addressed because all the tangents are part of a complex and interlaced network of paths that make up the whole.

 

And what is the whole ? I wouldn't have a clue !

Actually I have plenty of clues I am just having difficulty in sorting them all out and categorising them.

 

Please excuse the strangeness of this post, hope some of it makes sense and I am amazed and troubled at the same time that I can even describe this much of what the fuck is going on inside me.

If these rantings seem to you to be fragmented, unclear, disorientated, then don't panic they are.

 

LOL now I will stop apologising about it.

[Fweethawt]

Did you ever stop to think that you're just a mutating hunk of meat and that the continuous changes in matter (including your brain) are what you are simply interpreting as being "in search of" something when all it really is is growth?

[knowmad]

Another conflict that greatly troubles me is the whole nature of humankind as a species.

I speak of the amazing intelligence we have for creating so many things yet we are so profoundly stupid in that while we are creating we are destroying the very source of what sustains us.

 

There seems to ba a detachment of ourselves from reality through creating another reality to live in. We isolate ourselves from our real surroundings and become psychopathic towards it. The whole progress mentality is so illogical and pointless and I grasp to understand it. Regardless of whether there is an afterlife or not, the progressive nature of humankind just doesn't fit into the balanced ecosystem around us.

 

We seem to be on this path of progress to help us survive as a species yet this very path leads to our destruction. Of course we can envision a kind of star trekian utopia that we can proudly claim as our destination and something of value to strive towards.

It may happen and it may not, the evidence thus far say it won't but you never know.

Then I think of the cultures that live as close as possible in harmony with their least as possible humanly unmodified realm.

A simplistic life that has the least destructive impact on the environment that sustains them.

 

I struggle everyday to be a part of the progressive culture of humankind. I lack enthusiasm to be a part of it because the end of everyones lives there is and always will be death. I can either spend all my days fishing or I can spend a whole year working so I can have a months holiday to go fishing.

Progress, acheivment, advancement etc, are they what they claim to be or are they endevours of absolute futility ?

 

I remember a scene from a Goodies episode, it was announced through the media that there was a few hours left before the destruction of the world and so all the retailers were having end of the world sales.

The shops were full of frantic people buying up all the bargains.

Funny as all shit but frighteningly true of the nature of us.

 

We are the only species on this planet that isn't content, happy and at peace. We build this artificial world to obtain that, then we have to bombard ourselves with entertainment to obtain what most likely the other species have always had.

 

But this an incomplete picture on it's own, there are so many other factors to consider.

 

Did you ever stop to think that you're just a mutating hunk of meat and that the continuous changes in matter (including your brain) are what you are simply interpreting as being "in search of" something when all it really is is growth?

Growth towards becoming what ?

[Fweethawt]

Did you ever stop to think that you're just a mutating hunk of meat and that the continuous changes in matter (including your brain) are what you are simply interpreting as being "in search of" something when all it really is is growth?

Growth towards becoming what ?

Whatever or whoever it is that you are.

 

More or less, it's just you trying to define yourself to a point where you are comfortable being you.

 

 

Another conflict that greatly troubles me is the whole nature of humankind as a species.

 

I speak of the amazing intelligence we have for creating so many things yet we are so profoundly stupid in that while we are creating we are destroying the very source of what sustains us.

 

There seems to ba a detachment of ourselves from reality through creating another reality to live in. We isolate ourselves from our real surroundings and become psychopathic towards it. The whole progress mentality is so illogical and pointless and I grasp to understand it. Regardless of whether there is an afterlife or not, the progressive nature of humankind just doesn't fit into the balanced ecosystem around us.

 

We seem to be on this path of progress to help us survive as a species yet this very path leads to our destruction. Of course we can envision a kind of star trekian utopia that we can proudly claim as our destination and something of value to strive towards.

 

It may happen and it may not, the evidence thus far say it won't but you never know.

Then I think of the cultures that live as close as possible in harmony with their least as possible humanly unmodified realm.

 

A simplistic life that has the least destructive impact on the environment that sustains them.

That is pretty weird, isn't it?

I know what you're talking about.

 

Now - if we would have just remained dumb...

[Open_Minded]

I suppose the scary part about the abyss thing was not the conflicting nature of apparently opposing concepts,

but the fall was symbolic of me losing my definition of myself, faith/belief in myself and my perceptions.

And it just gets deeper and deeper.

How do I define myself ?

How do I know that how I percieve myself is correct ?

What is correct and what isn't and how do I define them ?

So the scary part was the abyss just kept going and I couldn't find anything familiar to grab onto, especially trying to establish what could be considered to be something that I could grab onto.

 

Interesting that in the dreams to follow I finally landed and the only thing shown to me was the symbol of man, being love.

 

Knowmad:

 

I'm sorry it's taken me so long to respond. Your language is classic of a mystic experience indicating a "loss of self". It's taken me so long to respond because I had to discover the term Buddhists used for this experience. But... I finally found it. The term is: Anatta

 

Following is a summary paragraph from the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatman

 

Buddhist teaching tells us that all in life is impermanent and in a constant state of flux, and that any entity that exists does so only in dependence on the conditions of its arising, which are non-eternal. Therefore, any sense one might have of an abiding self or a soul is regarded as a misapprehension.

 

Buddhists hold that the notion of an abiding self is one of the main causes of human conflict, and that by realizing the nonexistence of our perceived self, 'we' may go beyond 'our' mundane desires. (Reference to 'oneself' or 'I' or 'me' for Buddhists is used merely conventionally.)

 

Knowmad... I'm leary about going too much further because I'm not qualified to interpret the Buddhist tradition.

 

I do recognize the language you use Knowmad... it is classic language used when one is experiencing the falling away of one's "false-self". Within the realm of mystic experiences it is a normal experience. But since you are dealing with a de-conversion it's important that you find sources of information about this type of experience that are something other than Christian.

 

If there are any Buddhist communities in your area - it might really help you to call them. Another option would be a Buddhist forum.

 

I did a quick google search and found the following: http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php

 

They have a forum called: "Beginner's Buddhism"

 

Post a description of your experience there, I'm sure you'll get a lot of good ideas on how to deal with it.

 

Please do keep us posted. I do think of you often

[Fweethawt]

I do recognize the language you use Knowmad... it is classic language used when one is experiencing the falling away of one's "false-self".

There is no "false-self", Knowmad. There is your past-self and present-self. Looking at it this way allows you to continuously grow. Accepting that there is a false-self and a true-self only stifles the growth once you think you've reached being your "true-self".

 

Within the realm of mystic experiences it is a normal experience.

This is a false statement. Either you're having a "mystic experience" or a "normal experience" - not both.

 

There's nothing mystical about it, Knowmad. It's a natural growth cycle. <--- period

 

But since you are dealing with a de-conversion it's important that you find sources of information about this type of experience that are something other than Christian.

Psychology for starters.

 

If there are any Buddhist communities in your area - it might really help you to call them. Another option would be a Buddhist forum.

If you're looking to become some part of another group, there's always this option. If you're willing to follow the "road less-traveled", you'll take a walk down Individual Street.

[♦ nivek ♦]

knowmad,

 

This at first blush is gonna soud rude as taking a shit on your carpet:

 

"Yer thinking too much"

 

With too much introspection comes a paralyizing of the ability to actually *do* shit.

 

"Dare I do A, or do I resort to Plan B From Mars, or do I scrap it all and go with the Richard Simmons Weight Reducing Belt?"

 

Seriously amigo, by the time you finally get off.ass and into meat.life to do.something, your time to do it has been spent spinning the cobwebs in your mind.

 

Right. Wrong. Indifferent. Dangerous. Insane.

 

Whatever you decide to DO and actually get done is more important than worrying about the shit you *might do or be ble to do*.

 

 

Will qualify statement that if your gig is to attempt parachuteless landings from heights and free diving to >300 feet while smoking, the above caveat might not be that applicable.

(I can stretch any metaphor or euphamism to its extreme assholian limit..)

 

Find something to DO and just fuckin' get off your ass and do it. Doesn't have to be the rewrite of Magna Carta or even an Eagle Scout project.

Something, anything that will help you get off the high center you find yourself on and back to doing productinve things with your hands and brain.

 

Thinking without action is mental masturbation. Eventually you get tired of that and need something else to keep hands and mind busy with.

 

k, insane_prattling_moonbat_deluxe, L

[pitchu]

Knowmad, I'm going to make a bold assumption that you're not a parent (if I'm wrong, you can "Nyah-Nyah-Nyah" at me until I shrink into a ball from embarrassment).

 

The reason I think this is because prior to my becoming a parent I went through the same kinds of mental mazes you describe... mainly because I had both the inclination and luxury to do so. With kids, I still had the inclination toward all this subjective/objective examination of self and the universe, but the luxury of being able to do so had decidedly disappeared.

 

I never became a non-thinking person, and exploring possibilities of all kinds is still a part of my mental life and my connection to others, but after having kids, such preoccupation became wholly beside the point.

 

My suggestion, then, would be to find a kid (through Big Brother/Sister or Literacy Program or some such) who needs your kind of attention and dedication and let that kid use up all your very evident brilliant resources until you flop into bed at night exhausted. And wake up each morning with blatant, incontrovertible meaning.

[knowmad]

Thankyou for all the responses thus far, I will be thinking of them while at work today and will attempt to respond tonight as they are all things I have been thinking of lately and to answer all your posts because of the intertwining nature, well I just don't have enough time this morning.

 

It seems that around dec jan every year I go through some shit like this and in the last couple of years I have become extemely weary and the only comfort I have is the thought of non existance. Yet a small part of me says that no it's just my perception of reality is fucked and not reality itself, but that's a hard one to get around.

 

Shit ! look at me, I can't even write THIS post without going on and on and on.

I fucking hate this shit I am going through, absolutely hate it.

Anyway, I'm off to work LOL work. I go to work today so I can go to work tomorrow, yeah THAT'S so fucking sane !

[pitchu]

Shit ! look at me, I can't even write THIS post without going on and on and on.

 

(Laughing with you, not at you, Knowmad )

[Open_Minded]

Shit ! look at me, I can't even write THIS post without going on and on and on.

 

(Laughing with you, not at you, Knowmad )

 

Knowmad, check out Pitchu's signature line... I LOVE IT

"The salvation of the world lies in the hands of the maladjusted."

-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

Say Pitchu ... do you know the context of that quote? As in what letter, or speech it was in??? I'd love to find the whole text.

[pitchu]

 

Knowmad, check out Pitchu's signature line... I LOVE IT

"The salvation of the world lies in the hands of the maladjusted."

-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

Say Pitchu ... do you know the context of that quote? As in what letter, or speech it was in??? I'd love to find the whole text.

 

Glad you like it, Open_Minded. MLK used the line in many speeches, as early, I think, as 1955. Sometimes it stood alone, sometimes it was incorporated within sentences. Below is the first part of one such speech:

 

Martin Luther King on June 6, 1961 at Lincoln University

 

by Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

http://www.indiana.edu/~ivieweb/mlkad.html

 

Every academic discipline has its

technical nomenclature, and modern

psychology has a word that is used,

probably, more than any other. It is the

word maladjusted. This word is the

ringing cry of modern child psychology.

Certainly all of us want to live a

well-adjusted life in order to avoid the

neurotic personality. But I say to you,

there are certain things within our

social order to which I am proud to be

maladjusted and to which I call upon all

men of good will to be maladjusted.

 

If you will allow the preacher in me to

come out now, let me say to you that I

never did intend to adjust to the evils

of segregation and discrimination. I

never did intend to adjust myself to

religious bigotry. I never did intend to

adjust myself to economic conditions that

will take necessities from the many to

give luxuries to the few. I never did

intend to adjust myself to the madness

of militarism, and the self-defeating

effects of physical violence. And I call

upon all men of good will to be

maladjusted because it may well be that

the salvation of our world lies in the

hands of the maladjusted.

 

(Now I have to hustle off to my controls and change the word, "the" to "our." Forgive me, MLK.)

[Open_Minded]

Glad you like it, Open_Minded. MLK used the line in many speeches, as early, I think, as 1955. Sometimes it stood alone, sometimes it was incorporated within sentences. Below is the first part of one such speech:

 

Martin Luther King on June 6, 1961 at Lincoln University

 

by Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

http://www.indiana.edu/~ivieweb/mlkad.html

 

Wow, Pitchu, thank you. I just copied and pasted that into my reference/quote database along with the link. Martin Luther King Jr. is one of my favorites.

 

Knowmad.... take that whole quote and put it in context with your frustrations....

 

Anyway, I'm off to work LOL work. I go to work today so I can go to work tomorrow, yeah THAT'S so fucking sane !

 

It can be quite healthy to be maladjusted, Knowmad

[knowmad]

Well, where do I start ? And am I capable enough to not let it turn into a fucking epic ?

And what's wrong with epics ? Stop waving those robot arms in my face ! LOL

 

As you can see I've had a breakthrough thanks to you and my life long friend who has given his advice on this subject and this time he hasn't suggested I just go get my rocks off with some cute blonde, which is doubly mysterious because I have told him time and time again that I like dark haired women. Dark hair, deep clear dark eyes and an innocent and childlike smile.

 

Anyways, off to a bad start here. Two paragraphs and I haven't even addressed the first topic.

 

Okay so yesterday morning I read your posts and calmly yet exploratively mulled over them while I was at work.

After a few hours I had many things so say in reply but at 1pm something profound happened.

Something that I have been thinking about since then till now and will continue to think about to get a fuller understanding of the implications of what happened to me.

 

I could just come out and say what happened but that just wouldn't be me so in keeping with my meandering nature I'll take the long road to get there.

LOL my daughter gets mad at me because I am unable to give simple yes and no answers.

Actually, she doesn't any more as I believe we have found a balanced place when we interact.

I try to answer simpler and she tries to enjoy the journey.

 

When I first deconverted I devoured information, all of the information that xianity told me was evil or incorrect. For 2 months I was reading 4 books a week and one of the books I read was a brief summary of all the major religions of the world.

 

From that I surmised that religions/beliefs are bourne out of someone developing a thought into a structured belief and as I read of each religion I found that most if not all had one thing in common.

Love and respect for others. And it seemed to me that within all religions there are universal "truths" and there are shit loads of crap surrounding these truths and these truths become lost, buried under all this crap.

 

So to me it's not about who's right and who's wrong it's all to do with I choose to believe this or I choose to believe that.

We define ourselves by what we choose to believe in and beliefs are nothing more than structured thoughts. So, we are who we are by what we think we are. We behave according to what we think about ourselves and our relationship we have within reality and with others.

 

When I read about buddhism, I got the gist that's it's all about denying oneself, similar to the xian version of it but obviously a more indepth one. Makes sense I thought and proceeded to read of the other religions.

 

Then one day I'm watching this show and there's this story about a guy who's rolling on the ground from one end of India to the other. Okay I thinks, crazy buddhist monk expressing his belief in a tangible way. But at the very end of his loooooong journey, he flips around wildly on the ground elated at his feat.

 

HUH ! How does one deny acknowledgement of self yet show so much joyous emotion upon completing a torturous task ? I crossed Buddhism off my list of candidates of beliefs worth exploring from that day forth.

 

Now of course let's not forget my conflict of, "Hey how do I know I'm interpreting all that correctly ?"

LOL fuck that, time to move on because I have to have have some form of process of elimination working inside me as I experiment my way on this journey don't I.

 

I choose to see that buddhism, for me, is illogical. It is neither correct nor wrong. It is merely something I cannot connect with at this time in my life. And it is connectivity that I find that energises/encourages me to proceed into the unknown.

 

Now it is with connectivity that I began to look at the advice given while I was at work.

And I found that all connections had been severed and I had come to a complete stop and was frustrated because I did not see this till that day.

 

I mulled over all that was said by everyone in their posts.

Growth, finding something and just applying yourself to it and my 2 kids.

The connection is love.

And surprise surprise, the dream I had 2 days after my abyss experience, where I found myself at the bottom of the abyss and I met the troubled people and they showed me the symbol of their people and the symbol was of love. And upon waking I knew subconsciously that this symbol thing was very important.

 

The day before yesterday, at work I found myself once again suicidal, I could see no other way to resolve my torment.

But I never lose complete heart when I am like this. Instead I explore, I confront and I examine till I find what the whole experience is trying to tell me.

Oh yeah it's fucking terribly disabling that's for sure and the process is bogged down and slow and frustrating to the point of inner exhaustion.

 

But there is one thing that gives me the inner strength to keep going, and that's the love I have for my kids. And today I have been thinking about love and I have concluded that I have no fucking idea what it really means or how it functions.

 

All I know is that it's what gives me purpose, direction and resolve to continue even in the face of this inner death that comes upon me all too often, although that happens less and less as I journey on. But it still fucking hurts when it comes on me.

 

And at 1pm while I was seeing the connections forming in my mind I felt and quite noticably my life force/spirit/call it what you want return and I could feel energy rising up within.

It was a most amazing experience, hard to describe but it's like powering up a machine and watching it come to life and animate.

 

It wasn't a burst of over powering energy but a slow reassuring filling and all I could do was utter in my mind, "Wow the abyss trip was definately worth it."

 

So thankyou one and all for taking the time to help in the best way that you know how.

It doesn't matter if you think you hit the mark or not because sometimes you never see the fruit of your efforts.

 

From the abyss experience I have walked through it and have gained, I have grown, I understand more and I appreciate what is, more than I did.

I'm not brimming with joy, but I calmly acknowledge what I have experienced and understood and will endevour to impliment what I have now.

 

To walk in this new form I find myself in is just a part of the journey, but you know sometimes I just wish it were not so FUCKING PAINFUL.

 

PS. The abyss experience is definately strongly related to my life long battle with depression, this is what I'm exploring at the moment and it has given me new insight to the whole dynamics and source of it effecting my life.

 

As for the rest of the issues I'm conflicted about, fuck it I'm going to concentrate on being there for my kids and how life pans out from this I have no idea what will be, I will just take it as it comes and live in it and through it, thanks once again for all your heartfelt kindness.

 

PSS. Yes I have always felt like an outsider to reality and the Martin Luthor King Jr thing is apt to say the least, well worth exploring and accepting etc.

 

PSSS. I wrote to my mum today and I told her I miss the simple life I had as a child.

PSSSS. No more ps' please, enough already ! ~smiles and logs off to pick up his son from school~

Oh just one more, how good it felt yesterday at work to think of going to the quarry with my son this arvie and take a dip in that cool refreshing lake.

[Fweethawt]

 

 

[pitchu]

Knowmad, I'm so happy for you, and for your mom who got to hear those precious words from you, and for your kids (yes, I'm in an embarrassed ball) who, it sounds like, are going to get to have the loving, invested you!

 

Shout loud in that quarry.

[Open_Minded]

Congratulations Knowmad....

 

We're thrilled for you.... I think you've found a wonderful answer.

 

Love - makes the world go round

 

[NotBlinded]

Awesome knowmad! May your dip in the water leave your spirit refreshed.

[Fweethawt]

Awesome knowmad! May your dip in the water leave your spirit refreshed.

You're gettin' pretty good at this spiritual mumbo-jumbo stuff lately.

 

Why couldn't you just say, "May your dip in the quarry cleanse and refresheth thy buns." ?

 

 

[knowmad]

Knowmad, I'm so happy for you, and for your mom who got to hear those precious words from you, and for your kids (yes, I'm in an embarrassed ball) who, it sounds like, are going to get to have the loving, invested you!

 

Shout loud in that quarry.

No need to feel embarrassed pitchu, you may have thought wrong about me not having kids but you were spot on with your advice.

 

But when I think about it, although I had single parented my two kids for a 5 year period, it all fell apart 1 year ago and I sent them packing to their mother's.

So in a sense I do and I don't have kids, especially when I disconnect from them.

It's a sad and complex story which I do not wish to go into but the good news is that all three of us have a deeper understanding of each other and we are rebuilding the damaged relationships.

 

YAY ! We had a great time at the quarry and tomorrow morning we are going MTBing there at the crack of dawn. He reckons he's gonna go for a swim, crazy nut ! Suppose it's warm enough though.

[pitchu]

Thanks for your graciousness, Knowmad.

 

Anyone who's been a parent has, by definition, been an imperfect person.

 

In my book, though, anyone who's ever parented singly for five years deserves unending pats on the back.

 

It sounds like you guys are having a great time together. Wonderful!

[knowmad]

I accept that pat on the back pitchu, but I fucked up near the end end sent them to live with their mother. I just couldn't handle it anymore. Didn't even know what it was that I was meant to handle.

But we are rebuilding the relationships so all is not lost and my daughte rtold me once that she knew I was doing my utmost and that she thinks I did well.

 

 

Here's the latest synopsis of my inner conflict.

 

These thoughts have come about because I have been spending a great deal of time going through my journals looking for clues as to what this conflict is.

And there's a shit load of clues that I had written over the years as to what the fuck is wrong with me. Same clues that keep cropping up year after year.

 

As I was reading them I noticed that I was at first frustrated because I had thought that I had dealt with these issues already.

Frustrated to the point that about a week after I had the abyss thing I found myself contemplating suicide once again.

HOLY FUCK !! How did I get there so fast and how the fuck did I end up there in the first place ? These last two weeks have been very despairing, tiring and scary contemplating how fucked up my head is.

 

But as I was reading my journals I began to notice that I'm having a paradigm shift.

Maybe I have them all the time but this is the first time I have noticed it actually taking shape.

I never noticed it before but shit, why wouldn't I silly me ! Before, any thoughts I may have or formulate would have had the god factor as part of the equation and all solutions would have to be god based.

 

Now of course I have deleted all data about god being truth from my mind and have been defragging and reassessing all my thoughts about how I perceive reality and myself.

I've even begun to analyse differently.

 

 

Anyway, so I'm a firm believer in taking the time to find the root cause of a problem instead of just treating the symptoms, and as I was falling down the abyss there were all these conflicting thoughts passing by me, I've mentioned a couple but they're not the issues I was to deal with.

 

If they were I would have stopped at them. Instead, they just flew past and I was not even meant to give them a glancing thought. Where I did stop was the place where the people were and the symbol of these people was love.

 

WOOT ! Love yeah ! Love is of value, loving my kids and others.

But I was still troubled after realising this, it energised me back to life but the inner turmoil was still there, just not as intense as before.

 

This is when I began to notice the paradigm shift and I thought hang on, even though the people were of love they were troubled to the point of slowly becoming extinct.

Then as I read the journals it hit me.

Where did I land ? In the land of troubled people.

What were they troubled about? Love.

What am I troubled about ? Love.

 

I mean it even shows up in my writing look, "Love is of value, loving my kids and others."

I should be first on that list, fuck I'm not even on it.

I would've thought after 10 years of exploring my innards and dealing with issues of the past, understanding why bad shit happened, exploring my abilities blah blah blah, I would have thought I would have made it onto the love list, but nope oh well.

 

So it seems the old perception of zero worth is still there inside me, the sneaky bastard.

But this is where the fun begins. For some bizarre reason I never saw the connection between manic depression, suicidal thoughts and that they stem from a perception of me being of no value.

 

Yeah I know, I R st00pid LOL

But maybe that's what 35+ years of all this shit does to someone. To put it as eloquently as possible, that shit fucks you up big time !

 

Anyways, so I'm excited at the moment because no wait.. first I was extremely disheartened because I just spent ten years dealing with this issue and thinking I had it licked, hence thinking suicide was my only way to get relief.

 

But because of the paradigm shift I'm excited because it's like a fresh start whereas all the other times I had to deal with this is was as it is described in my journal,

"I spend all this time climbing this mountain and in the blink of an eye I find myself back at the base again, exhausted and disheartened knowing I have to climb it again wondering if I will find myself at the bottom everytime I climb. And why the fuck do I find myself at the bottom only after I have nearly reached the top."

 

And this perception of no self worth explains why I stop myself whenever I try to do something creative. Never saw that one before either.

Starting to see many things for the first time or from a different perspective.

 

The weird thing is I know I have great potential and I feel good within myself about that, but it's this sneaky shit that comes in the back door and undrmines me that really throws me for six.

 

But now I can see the fucker more clearly now so it's full steam ahead to suss out all it's little nooks and cranies and vuild me some new neural pathways.

 

Once again thanks for caring, I'm really not very comfortable with people taking an interest in me, but I'm warming to it.

 

Oh yeah I posted something a while back saying there was nothing of interest for me in this forum. I now realise it was because I felt I had nothing to impart to anyone, plus I just wasn't in the right frame of mind to interact.

Fuck I can't even believe I posted it in the first place, oh things are stirring deep within that's for sure.

 

Anyway enough of this serious shit, I need to post something silly.

[pitchu]

In my observing many of the theist people in my life and from my limited time spent as a believer, Knowmad, when all solutions have to be god-based, nothing ever "feels" solved or completed because, always, "more will be revealed."

 

In this state of suspended animation, forever waiting for a sign or reading something personal into a selected bible verse or ramping up frequency and intensity of prayer, the believer is consequently severed from and dissociated from self. Broken away from self, s/he is also removed from his/her own life. One's life, then, feels more and more like being in a game with an Imagined Force who not only holds all the cards, He plays with loaded dice.

 

I think you perfectly expressed the inevitable conundrum of being in this trap. One's belief system compels one to act, in a pretense of free will, but, as with Sisyphus, one's actions are limited to rolling the rock back up the hill incessantly... because any actual solution to one's problems or meaningful result of one's actions must, by the rules of the game, be attributed to god.

 

If someone can never own his/her life, s/he can never feel efficacious. Never feeling efficacious means never having an opportunity to love oneself.

 

_____________

 

Btw, unlike our capriciously punitive god, our kids are always willing to give us a second chance.

[knowmad]

Okay okay o fucking kay.

First off, how the fucking hell is everyone ?

Long time no see.

 

Secondly, well hmmm you people are just absolutely radiantly fucking beautiful !

Come 'ere and I'll gives yas a big hug !

 

Been thinking about you guys for a while now and shit I just can't contain my deep love for you any more.

 

FUCKING HELLLLLLLLOOOOOOO ! LOL

 

I've just reread my Abyss journey thread and this one and HOLY FUCKING MONKEY is all I can say HOLY FUCKING MONKEY !

 

A big loving hugs to everyone who had helped me all those months ago, I wouldn't be where I am today without your love. seriously guys and girls wait till you see this shit.

FUCK I"M SO FUCKING ENERGISED !

 

Okay no more talking, just check this shit out....

There's a lot of pages but trust me you just gotta check thit shit out LOL

 

Alternate Carpark's journey aka knowmad

 

If you want to go back a bit further to see when it first started to flow out of me then go here

AC's journey, the sort of beginnig

 

I got to go do stuff and it's abusy week with mum visiting from Tazzie but will try to pop in and say hi late at night or very early in the mornings.

 

Love and hugs, knowmad aka AC

[♦ nivek ♦]

knowmad...

 

Lets simplify all of this stuff..

 

"Any day you can get your ass up, get vertical and still walk mostly straight, is a good day."

 

Everything after waking up *not_dead* is a good thing.

 

Trying to figure the meaning of life, the cosmos, and why earthworms taste like chicken are part of the human experience we all share.

 

Some folks like to delve farther into the "w's", others like daFatman just gave up giving a vapid fuck and now are enjoying the rest of the ride this time around.

 

I've lived far past where I ever expected to do so, and got the scars and battle damage to every damn part of me recountable. I wouldn't change a damn thing about this ride in life, save that I'd want to do it again..

 

Learning how to avoid getting my ass kicked and how to apply that knowledge elsewhere may seem somewhat pedestrian, but it has served me well.

 

Gettin' up and on in the morning is half the battle.

 

kL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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