dattaswami Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 STATEMENT: - MATHEW 10: 40 Lord Jesus was the human incarnation of the Holy Spirit. The human body of Holy Jesus is like the metallic wire, which was all over, pervaded by the Holy Spirit. Veda says ‘Antarbahischa’ which means that the Holy Spirit pervades all over the body of Human Incarnation. Wherever you touch the wire the electric shock is given. Similarly the entire human body of Holy Jesus is holy. The holiness is the nature of Holy Spirit just like the shock is the property of electricity. As the electricity cannot be separated from the wire, the Holy Spirit cannot be separated from the Holy Jesus. So here the Holy Spirit is the Holy Jesus. Holy Jesus refers this Holy Spirit as His Father. He tells that He was sent by His father as a messenger. Though He and His father are one and the same, He speaks like this for which there is a practical reason i.e.; every human being repels with another human being. A man cannot accept another man as God due to Jealousy and Egoism. Bhagavatgita says, “A man will insult Me when I come here in human form (Avajananti mam….)”. For this purpose Holy Jesus wants Himself to be called only as the messenger of the Holy Spirit by the disciples whenever He is introduced to the public. If He tells the truth the egoistic public will not hear even what He preaches and will reject Him. Therefore He is telling His disciples to introduce Him as a messenger only. Of course, the disciples are really the messengers of Holy Jesus. Holy Spirit has taken over the human body of Holy Jesus and pervaded all over the body to preach the divine knowledge to this world. The same Holy Spirit is sending the disciples for the propagation of the Divine knowledge. Both the body of Holy Jesus and the disciples are instruments of the Holy Spirit chosen for different purposes. The Holy Spirit is preaching through the body of Holy Jesus and is propagating the divine knowledge through disciples. Therefore if you respect the disciple you are respecting the Holy Spirit indirectly. Though both the instruments exist like this, the Holy Spirit is present in Jesus and is not present in the disciples. Due to this difference the disciple is an indirect instrument and the direct instrument is Holy Jesus. The disciple propagates the divine knowledge after hearing from the Holy Jesus. Therefore when such disciple is respected, Holy Jesus is respected first and then the Holy Spirit. But among the disciples there may be some person who cannot repeat what Holy Jesus exactly preached. In such a case the Holy Spirit will take over the body of that disciple and preaches (Mathew 10: 20). Such a disciple differs from Holy Jesus because the Holy Spirit resides in that disciple for some time only where as the Holy Spirit resides in Jesus all the time. Holy Jesus is telling that He is the messenger of the Holy Spirit and He is also telling that the disciple is His messenger. He is giving the same status to Himself and the disciple by telling like this. The reason is that some disciple may become jealous in future if He says that He Himself is the Holy Spirit where as the disciple is His messenger only. The difference in the status may bring jealousy. Therefore He is maintaining the equal status so that no devotee becomes jealous of Jesus in the future. Due to jealousy the disciple may slip from Holy Jesus. When He says that He is only the messenger, this shows the humble and submissiveness of Holy Jesus. He wants His disciples to be humble and submissive to the Holy Spirit through out their lives. For this purpose He sets Himself as an ideal. The Holy Spirit present in the human body of Holy Jesus is the essence of true and infinite knowledge as Veda says “Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahma….”. Humbleness and submissiveness are the fruits of the Divine Knowledge. Therefore the humbleness and submissiveness are the qualities of the Holy Spirit itself. This means whatever Holy Jesus speaks is the statement of the Holy Spirit only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Quoth datta: As the electricity cannot be separated from the wire, the Holy Spirit cannot be separated from the Holy Jesus. datta, please, esoteric bullshit is *cute*, however your *science* is entirely flawed from the initial presupposition. "Electricity cannot be separated from teh wire" is not only a black shade of truth, but it is horrorific use of engineering. Moving electrons in some organized fashion, "electricity" has been a long seen observation before man invented ways of harnessing and transmitting it. Poor form leads to a long umimaginative post based on the inital flawed truism. k, scoffer at best, L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 STATEMENT: - MATHEW 10: 40 Lord Jesus was the human incarnation of the Holy Spirit. T Oh really. How do you know that. He could have been phony just like that Satya Sai Baba or Maharishi Yogi Bhagavatgita says, “A man will insult Me when I come here in human form (Avajananti mam….)”. For this purpose Holy Jesus wants Himself to be called only as the messenger of the Holy Spirit by The Gita also says you must kill a man if this is your dharma(duty). It's ok you are only killing this life, but the soul lives on. Don't get me started on Mahabharat and Krishna. It 's one of the biggest non sensical story of all times. the disciples whenever He is introduced to the public. If He tells the truth the egoistic public will not hear even what He preaches and will reject Him. Therefore He is telling His disciples to introduce Him as a messenger only. Of course, the disciples are really the messengers of Holy Jesus. He was a not a messenger from God of the OT. and if you knew the bible you wouldn't be here. Please study it before you make a comments The Holy Spirit present in the human body of Holy Jesus is the essence of true and infinite knowledge as Veda says “Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahma….” Says who. And who wrote the Vedas... mmmmm.. lemme guess the Devas(Gods). And your proof for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 STATEMENT: - MATHEW 10: 40 ........................ Hey dattaswami, I think you forgot something at the end of your post. Anil Antony www.universal-spirituality.org Universal Spirituality for World Peace antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org There! That's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dattaswami Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 STATEMENT: - MATHEW 10: 40 Lord Jesus was the human incarnation of the Holy Spirit. T Oh really. How do you know that. He could have been phony just like that Satya Sai Baba or Maharishi Yogi Bhagavatgita says, “A man will insult Me when I come here in human form (Avajananti mam….)”. For this purpose Holy Jesus wants Himself to be called only as the messenger of the Holy Spirit by The Gita also says you must kill a man if this is your dharma(duty). It's ok you are only killing this life, but the soul lives on. Don't get me started on Mahabharat and Krishna. It 's one of the biggest non sensical story of all times. veda as reference There are several religions and there are several scriptures corresponding to these religions. We must fix a scripture as the primary standard so that other scriptures can be standardized with reference to that. The other scripture also becomes standard with reference to which some other scripture can be also standardized. This is called as the process of standardization in Science. Such a primary standard can be the Veda. I know immediately the colours of your faces will change. Immediately you will blame Me that I am not the preacher of Universal Religion. You will misunderstand Me as the preacher of Hinduism in guise. This situation will arise even if I take the scripture of some other religion also as the primary standard. The misunderstanding is inevitable and unavoidable. I have to take one scripture of some religion and I have to be subjected to the criticism. Therefore, I ignore the criticism. I know what I am in My inner consciousness. My inner self is the real witness as long as I am the preacher of Universal Religion to My inner self, I need not fear for any external criticism from any angle. The reason for selecting Veda as the primary standard is that even today the Veda is being preserved by oral recitation with the help of thousands of families. If you go to older and older times millions of families were reciting Veda just to preserve it from any type of intrusions or deletions. In Indian spiritual field there are several branches of philosophy who fight with each other orally. For all these branches, Veda is the standard text. Such situation never existed in any religion in this world and does not exist even today. Even today different schools of philosophy in Hinduism fight with each other and all of them quote the same Veda. Such competition was and is unique in Hinduism. In such competitive atmosphere pollution of Veda is impossible. If any word is added or deleted, immediately the other schools will shout because they fear that in such case Veda may support a particular branch of philosophy due to the possibility of a new interpretation for a new sentence. Leave the past. Tell Me frankly whether such situation exists in any religion in this world even today. This is the main reason why I have selected Veda as the primary standard. The diversity in Hinduism has done lot of good in this direction. The sanctity of the scripture is well protected. In the olden days the books were in the form of written scripts of palm leaves. Printing was not there. Therefore, a very few scripts were only present. In such case it was very easy to introduce a new palm leaf or to remove an older palm leaf because hardly one or two scripts were present in a very large region. Except this one reason there is no any other reason for Me to favour Veda but you need not worry that the scriptures of other religions have to be judged with reference to Veda only. Fortunately, all the scriptures of all the religions agree with Veda. The primary standard is useful in very few places where there is disagreement. Even that disagreement arises only from the misinterpretation of the statement. If the correct interpretation is given all the statements are perfectly coinciding with Veda. Moreover, one can decide the final version of any concept based on the logical analysis. If the logical analysis fails, then mere Veda need not be taken as authority. If the logic disagrees you can reject any scripture including Veda. Therefore, Veda along with the logical analysis only stands as a primary standard. When you are convinced logically about a concept and when such concept is found in Veda, then only the concept is authorised. Therefore, I am not rubbing Veda on any head without the logical analysis. Therefore, one need not doubt about the fanatic. The primary standard means the original word of God heard directly. But when other scriptures are perfectly in agreement with such word where is the question of fanatic? Every scripture becomes the word of God. This point supports the Universal Religion, which says that the single God delivered the scriptures of all the religions. When the author is one and the same how can there be difference between the scriptures? If there is any difference it is only by your misinterpretation. Therefore, primary standard is only for convenience but not for fanatic. the disciples whenever He is introduced to the public. If He tells the truth the egoistic public will not hear even what He preaches and will reject Him. Therefore He is telling His disciples to introduce Him as a messenger only. Of course, the disciples are really the messengers of Holy Jesus. He was a not a messenger from God of the OT. and if you knew the bible you wouldn't be here. Please study it before you make a comments The Holy Spirit present in the human body of Holy Jesus is the essence of true and infinite knowledge as Veda says “Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahma….” Says who. And who wrote the Vedas... mmmmm.. lemme guess the Devas(Gods). And your proof for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 The reason for selecting Veda as the primary standard is that even today the Veda is being preserved by oral recitation with the help of thousands of families. If you go to older and older times millions of families were reciting Veda just to preserve it from any type of intrusions or deletions. In Indian spiritual field there are several branches of philosophy who fight with each other orally. Have you heard about this game called "Chinese Whisper". Try this in a group. What makes you sure that the message was not exaggerated as it went down the lane. Just because something is old doesn't make it true. For all these branches, Veda is the standard text That is for you to prove. . Such situation never existed in any religion in this world and does not exist even today. Even today different schools of philosophy in Hinduism fight with each other and all of them quote the same Veda. Which ones is that. They all differ in their theology.Buddism and hinduism are different Such competition was and is unique in Hinduism. Nope, Islam also has the same. And so do every other religion If any word is added or deleted, immediately the other schools will shout because they fear that in such case Veda may support a particular branch of philosophy due to the possibility of a new interpretation for a new sentence. Leave the past. Tell Me frankly whether such situation exists in any religion in this world even today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith Do some freaking research. Even the hebrews had it when they started their scriptures. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_law Stop living in your castle in the air. There is nothing unique about hinduism. This is the main reason why I have selected Veda as the primary standard. You are yet to show me that there is no bias in the vedas. Except this one reason there is no any other reason for Me to favour Veda but you need not worry that the scriptures of other religions have to be judged with reference to Veda only. Fortunately, all the scriptures of all the religions agree with Veda. The primary standard is useful in very few places where there is disagreement. Even that disagreement arises only from the misinterpretation of the statement. Why not the other way round If the correct interpretation is given all the statements are perfectly coinciding with Veda. And who determines what is the correct interpretation? Every scripture becomes the word of God. That is false statement, and had you even bothered to read other scriptures(not just bits and pieces of it), you won't want all of them to a word of God When the author is one and the same how can there be difference between thescriptures? I i am sorry this is begging the question?How do you there was creator of this scriptures. what makes you sure that this is not come from people's mind. Besides you are showing your ignorance to me. All scriptures do not say the same thing. f there is any difference it is only by your misinterpretation. So the veda are correct scriptures and all the rest are not. Prove it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dattaswami Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 The reason for selecting Veda as the primary standard is that even today the Veda is being preserved by oral recitation with the help of thousands of families. If you go to older and older times millions of families were reciting Veda just to preserve it from any type of intrusions or deletions. In Indian spiritual field there are several branches of philosophy who fight with each other orally. Have you heard about this game called "Chinese Whisper". Try this in a group. What makes you sure that the message was not exaggerated as it went down the lane. Just because something is old doesn't make it true. For all these branches, Veda is the standard text That is for you to prove. . Such situation never existed in any religion in this world and does not exist even today. Even today different schools of philosophy in Hinduism fight with each other and all of them quote the same Veda. Which ones is that. They all differ in their theology.Buddism and hinduism are different Such competition was and is unique in Hinduism. Nope, Islam also has the same. And so do every other religion If any word is added or deleted, immediately the other schools will shout because they fear that in such case Veda may support a particular branch of philosophy due to the possibility of a new interpretation for a new sentence. Leave the past. Tell Me frankly whether such situation exists in any religion in this world even today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith Do some freaking research. Even the hebrews had it when they started their scriptures. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_law Stop living in your castle in the air. There is nothing unique about hinduism. This is the main reason why I have selected Veda as the primary standard. You are yet to show me that there is no bias in the vedas. Except this one reason there is no any other reason for Me to favour Veda but you need not worry that the scriptures of other religions have to be judged with reference to Veda only. Fortunately, all the scriptures of all the religions agree with Veda. The primary standard is useful in very few places where there is disagreement. Even that disagreement arises only from the misinterpretation of the statement. Why not the other way round If the correct interpretation is given all the statements are perfectly coinciding with Veda. And who determines what is the correct interpretation? Every scripture becomes the word of God. That is false statement, and had you even bothered to read other scriptures(not just bits and pieces of it), you won't want all of them to a word of God When the author is one and the same how can there be difference between thescriptures? I i am sorry this is begging the question?How do you there was creator of this scriptures. what makes you sure that this is not come from people's mind. Besides you are showing your ignorance to me. All scriptures do not say the same thing. f there is any difference it is only by your misinterpretation. So the veda are correct scriptures and all the rest are not. Prove it pritishd'; A true knowledge does not generate love and bliss immediately. But in course of time, in a long range, true knowledge alone will generate eternal love and eternal bliss. When Jesus told that unless one is prepared to leave his family members and even the life for His sake, one cannot become His dearest disciple, this knowledge is true but is very harsh. It did not generate love and bliss in the hearts of majority of the people who are ignorant. They crucified Him. But some realised souls and scholars recognised the truth, loved Him and got full bliss. In course of time, several people have realised His true knowledge. Therefore love and bliss do not mean the initial temporary love and bliss. The knowledge, love and bliss should be inseparable, true and eternal. Therefore the word ‘Truth’ is added as a prefix to His knowledge (Satyam Jnanam - Veda). Apart from the experience and logic, one should also take Scriptures as the final approving authority. Otherwise, even false preachers show perfect logic and experience in their interpretation. Therefore one needs the final sanction from the Scripture, which is called as Sruti and Smruti. Sruti is the Veda, which is preserved by recitation from one generation to the other. Not a single word is deleted or added to Veda because the recitation will not allow such pollution. Please do not mistake Me as a fan of Hinduism because I have to tell the truth and merit whatever may be the religion. The only scripture in this world, which is without pollution, is Veda. No other scripture in this world was preserved as Veda by such continuous process of recitation. If you have the original manuscript, there is no proof of the absence of pollution. Is there hand written manuscript or oral dictation in recorded form of Jesus or Mohammed or Buddha? Even if you say that the hand scripts of disciples of Jesus exist, rationalists will question about the guarantee of the original oral or written version of Jesus. They will ask for the sincerity of the disciples in recording the version of Jesus. Even Gita is not an exception to this powerful analysis. Swami Dayananda says that Sankara has written Gita and introduced into Mahabharata. I am not supporting Dayananda. But at the same time I cannot oppose him also. Can I show the tape recorder in which the Gita was recorded directly from Krishna? Then there is an equal probability for both the possibilities. Therefore Gita comes under the second category called as Smruti. Smruti is valid when it is found in Sruti or Veda. This is the reason why Sankara or Ramanuja or Madhva quotes first the Sruti and then only Gita as Smruti, which can be only supporting evidence. Unless the meaning of any verse of Gita is found in Sruti or Veda, it is not valid. Atleast the verse of Gita should not contradict the concept presented in Veda. Thus Gita, Bible, Q’ran and the statements of Buddha etc are analysed in the light of Veda. If any concept is contradicting Veda and if the correlation is not possible, such concept is to be rejected. Fortunately all the scriptures of the second category (Smruti) could be correlated with Veda and therefore the same God who spoke Veda in the beginning of the creation subsequently came down and preached all the scriptures. You need not worry that I have brought your religious scriptures under the second category because there is no single instance where your scripture contradicted Veda, if your scripture is represented in the light of correct interpretation. You should feel worried if I show a single instance where your scripture is rejected due to contradiction with Veda. Since such possibility never arose, you need not worry because your scripture becomes equal to Veda since it has never contradicted Veda in the light of correct interpretation. If somebody brings a statement like that the anti-Christ will try to bring the world peace by uniting all the religions, such statement cannot be accepted as the statement of God. It is only pollution. God is the very essence of the peace. Jesus is the very embodiment of peace. I am not finding such things only with Christianity. I can quote such things even in Hinduism, if you mistake Me as a fan of Hinduism internally. The scholars of Visishtadvaita branch of Hindu religion found by Ramanuja quoted some verses from a book written by Vyasa. These verses say that Sankara was an incarnation of a demon. It is very clear that these verses were composed by those scholars and were introduced into the book. Hinduism stands as a mini model for the whole world Whatever you find in the world in the macro-scale can be found in Hinduism in the micro-scale. The hand written scripts were always subjected to intrusions and extrusions in course of long duration of time. But Veda did never exist in the form of written script, even before the technology of writing on Palm Leaves was discovered. Veda existed in the process of the recitation only. During the process of recitation a very large number of scholars were involved who belonged to old, middle and new generations. Pollution at any level was impossible. Thus the authority lies in 1) Sruti (Veda); 2) Smruti (Gita, Bible, Q’ran, statements of Buddha etc.) which must coincide with Sruti or atleast not contradict Sruti; 3) Yukti, the logical analysis with discrimination power to differentiate truth and falsehood and 4) Vidvadanubhava, which is the experience of scholars who are the realised souls. I once again request all the other religions with folded hands and many many salutations, that one should not mistake me as a fan of Hinduism because I was born as a Hindu, especially by giving the first position to Sruti or Veda, which is a Hindu scripture. I am not a blind fan of any religion including Hinduism. Did I not praise the Christians and Muslims in the concept of re-birth and condemned the Hindus severely? Hindus became lazy and neglected the spiritual effort thinking that there are several human re-births. I condemned this concept and showed the Hindu scripture itself, which states that the human birth is very rare. Thus Hindus have misunderstood their own religious scripture, whereas Christians and Muslims have clearly understood their own religious scriptures. If there is a merit in Hinduism, I shall not feel shy to expose it, doubting that other religions may misunderstand Me as a fan of my own religion. Similarly I shall not feel afraid to criticize my own Hindus if there is de-merit in Hinduism and I shall not feel unhappy to praise other religions if they have a merit. At Thy Lotus Feet Anil Antony www.universal-spirituality.org Universal Spirituality for World Peace antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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