God Is Good. All The Time......all The Time. God Is Good.

[Guest end3]

Dude,

 

You remember back in second or third grade where the teacher would ask you "what is the theme of this passage/book"? Most folks agree with the consensus view that human nature overrides our allegiance to authority and morality. (So much so that this lady has rewritten Genesis to fit her needs) The point being that if the theme were "God is an ass", we would see a more moral humanity....which we don't.

[bdp]

Folks, end is the ass, it's his self-appointed role - let him be that, smile, and carry on.

[midniterider]

Not sure I see your point, because you are an adult and still do things that are adverse to some standard, ANY standard....just because you want to. My point is if he would have put know it all adults out there, there would have been the same result. Narrow is the Door ma'am. Not sure we know that Adam and Eve were tiny tots anyhow....now go count some pills...peace.

 

Yes, if you leave a loaded gun on a table at a MENSA convention someone may pick it up and kill somebody with it. Narrow is the door, Sir. But your comments are an attempt to redirect people's attention away from bibleGod being an asshole by blaming people instead. 

 

In the bible God knowingly set up a bad situation. He put something 'dangerous' in easy reach of people who didn't know what dangerous meant. A&E didn't have to climb a mountain or scale a fence with razor wire around it to get to the tree. God made something 'dangerous' easily accessible to his 'beloved' creations. 

 

Would a kind loving parent do this to their child? With consequences for all generations to come? No. 

[duderonomy]

Dude,

 

You remember back in second or third grade where the teacher would ask you "what is the theme of this passage/book"? Most folks agree with the consensus view that human nature overrides our allegiance to authority and morality. (So much so that this lady has rewritten Genesis to fit her needs) The point being that if the theme were "God is an ass", we would see a more moral humanity....which we don't.

 

E3, you have to get your theology straight. Human nature didn't come into play until after the fall in the garden.

When Adam and Eve were tempted, they only had the nature of God. Or are you saying that they weren't created in God's image, without sin, and so innocent that they didn't know good from evil after all?  

You are the one trying to re-write Genesis to suit your needs. What Sy wrote was a parable.

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

[midniterider]

Dude,

 

You remember back in second or third grade where the teacher would ask you "what is the theme of this passage/book"? Most folks agree with the consensus view that human nature overrides our allegiance to authority and morality.

 

To a certain extent human nature overrides authority and morality. I drive faster than the speed limit sometimes. But let me ask you how many people you've murdered? I haven't murdered anyone. It's not really 'allegiance' to authority, but more of a "I dont want to go to prison forever" idea. That and some morality (do unto others) is involved. If people really placed human nature (being a selfish moron) above authority and morality there would be no society at all. It would be like a Mad Max movie everyday in your town.  

 

(So much so that this lady has rewritten Genesis to fit her needs) The point being that if the theme were "God is an ass", we would see a more moral humanity....which we don't.

 

bibleGod is non-existent so has zero effect on morality from a supernatural standpoint. From a fear-of-hell standpoint,  a Christian can murder someone and then be forgiven later. Seems we have a lot of Christians in prison. God's morality isnt working. 

 

[midniterider]

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

 

Message #30: Sylens recognizes the thread having the possibility of going nowhere. Many many pages of nowhere, most likely.  

[Guest end3]

 

Dude,

 

You remember back in second or third grade where the teacher would ask you "what is the theme of this passage/book"? Most folks agree with the consensus view that human nature overrides our allegiance to authority and morality. (So much so that this lady has rewritten Genesis to fit her needs) The point being that if the theme were "God is an ass", we would see a more moral humanity....which we don't.

 

E3, you have to get your theology straight. Human nature didn't come into play until after the fall in the garden.

When Adam and Eve were tempted, they only had the nature of God. Or are you saying that they weren't created in God's image, without sin, and so innocent that they didn't know good from evil after all?  

You are the one trying to re-write Genesis to suit your needs. What Sy wrote was a parable.

 

No, image doesn't convey any of the specifics, does it? We may assume they did not know good or evil. They were subjected to both in the Garden.

[Guest Furball]

As per the title of the op i give you this little gem....

 

 

 

[Guest end3]

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

I see your point fine. We are left to speculating why God subjected humanity to evil....it will remain speculation. Personally, I think he wanted to create an entity with his capacity.....a friend....i.e. it's lonely at the top.....hence the subjection. It appears you have chosen sides. Happy life and don't smoke to much of that good and evil weed or it will end in death.

[mymistake]

 

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

I see your point fine. We are left to speculating why God subjected humanity to evil....it will remain speculation.

 

 

 

All the evidence points to the fact that God is imaginary.  Or did you mean speculation in the sense that

 

you were wondering why the author/editors of Genesis would have the character "God" do certain things?

[FarflungWanderer]

The point being that if the theme were "God is an ass", we would see a more moral humanity....which we don't.

That doesn't follow. At all. How does the immorality of God lead to a more moral human race?

 

Remember the Greeks? Their pantheon slept around like characters in a college movie or a sitcom, and were generally pernicious, violent, petty, greedy, and vain. All of these are the furthest thing from good character traits, but you still saw a human race that wasn't perfectly moral at all, either.

 

There's not some inverse relationship between deity morality and human morality. Trying to make that leap in logic only leads to a loooong way down the fallacy rabbit hole.

 

Hell, this all sounds vaguely like the arguments of Euthyphro. Remember what Socrates did to him?

[duderonomy]

 

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

I see your point fine. We are left to speculating why God subjected humanity to evil....it will remain speculation. Personally, I think he wanted to create an entity with his capacity.....a friend....i.e. it's lonely at the top.....hence the subjection. It appears you have chosen sides. Happy life and don't smoke to much of that good and evil weed or it will end in death.

 

 

E3, you don't need to speculate, it's all there in the Bible. You can twist and shout all you want, but you can't change what's written. You have to accept it as it is and either believe it or don't believe it.

Have you ever wondered why a perfect, complete, all knowing God would get lonely? If he has needs, he ain't God.

The Christian faith isn't tenable no matter how you approach it. Why don't you just accept that?  

[NoOne]

Folks, end is the ass, it's his self-appointed role - let him be that, smile, and carry on.

Yeah I'm catching on...

[mymistake]

When they hear that they will become the Body of Christ a few Christians volunteer to be the hands and

 

do the hard work.  More volunteer to be the mouth and speak for Christ.  But why do so many Christians

 

choose to be the ass?

[ConscientiousObjector]

Dammit, I burn through my up votes too fast! Good one, mymistake, you and sylens have rapidly become my favorite posters on this site.

[midniterider]

 

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

I see your point fine. We are left to speculating why God subjected humanity to evil....it will remain speculation. Personally, I think he wanted to create an entity with his capacity.....a friend....i.e. it's lonely at the top.....hence the subjection. It appears you have chosen sides. Happy life and don't smoke to much of that good and evil weed or it will end in death.

 

 

 

God tells two people not to eat from the tree that will give them the knowledge as to whether or not they should follow his directions. LoL. If a human being did that we'd say he was bonkers. But when God of the bible does it...whoa, hang on... he musta had a goooooood reason...we will just have to leave his reason to speculation. Invoke the 'mysterious ways' clause. 

 

If God wanted to create an entity with his capacity, why did he create Adam and Eve and not give them knowledge of good and evil and expressly tell them not to eat from the tree that would give them that knowledge? And upon eating from that tree why would he then punish them ....that is, if he wanted an entity with his own capacity? Looks like a God fail, then . God sure does things the hard way... Why didnt he just poof a copy of himself into existence? 

 

Christians making excuses for God's bizarre behavior. Fantastic.

[midniterider]

 Happy life and don't smoke to much of that good and evil weed or it will end in death.

 

 

Jesus is the evil weed. 

 

Use Marijuana: Cant think straight for a few hours. 

Use Jesus: Cant think straight for decades.  

[Guest end3]

 

 

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

I see your point fine. We are left to speculating why God subjected humanity to evil....it will remain speculation. Personally, I think he wanted to create an entity with his capacity.....a friend....i.e. it's lonely at the top.....hence the subjection. It appears you have chosen sides. Happy life and don't smoke to much of that good and evil weed or it will end in death.

 

 

E3, you don't need to speculate, it's all there in the Bible. You can twist and shout all you want, but you can't change what's written. You have to accept it as it is and either believe it or don't believe it.

Have you ever wondered why a perfect, complete, all knowing God would get lonely? If he has needs, he ain't God.

The Christian faith isn't tenable no matter how you approach it. Why don't you just accept that?

 

Not on this one D. If it's in the Bible, please show me the stated reason for tempting A&E. Blessings as always.

 

 

Also, not one of you have said what would be the outcome had A&E just done what God had said.....They would have still been in the Garden, "naked and afraid"....lol.

[bornagainathiest]

You're caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, when it comes to the Eden narrative, End.

If you want to defend God's actions and treat it literally, as accurately-recorded history involving real people, in a real location with real events - then you've got to deal with all the cosmological, geological, paleontological, genetic, botanical, evolutionary, ethnological and historical evidence that all say it's not literal. 

.

.

.

Cue End's stonewall denial of science? 

That would be typical of him.  Despite the fact that science pays his wages, keeps him healthy, keeps him supplied with food, keeps him warm/cool on demand, powers his home, keeps the planes, trains and automobiles he uses going, warns him about floods and bad weather, let's him phone anywhere in the world, keeps our armed services ready and able to defend him against all enemies, helps our law enforcement services protect him from criminals and terrorists, let's him use his computer to read these words and so on and so on... ad nauseam.   

.

.

.

If you want to defend God's actions, but take it metaphorically, then you've got to deal with what Jesus had to say about it.

 

Matthew 19 : 4 - 6, NIV.  (Also Mark 10 : 6 - 9)

"Haven't you read", he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female [Genesis 1 : 27] and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh.' [Genesis 2 : 24] So they are no longer two, but one flesh.  Therefore, what god has joined together, let no one separate."

 

It seems that Jesus considered Genesis to be h-i-s-t-o-r-y...not metaphor.

.

.

.

So either way you try and defend God's actions in Eden End, you're screwed!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mymistake]

 

 

Also, not one of you have said what would be the outcome had A&E just done what God had said.....They would have still been in the Garden, "naked and afraid"....lol.

 

 

 

Oh I got your wages of obedience right here courtesy of DM2525 . . . 

 

 

 

[duderonomy]

 

 

 

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

I see your point fine. We are left to speculating why God subjected humanity to evil....it will remain speculation. Personally, I think he wanted to create an entity with his capacity.....a friend....i.e. it's lonely at the top.....hence the subjection. It appears you have chosen sides. Happy life and don't smoke to much of that good and evil weed or it will end in death.

 

 

E3, you don't need to speculate, it's all there in the Bible. You can twist and shout all you want, but you can't change what's written. You have to accept it as it is and either believe it or don't believe it.

Have you ever wondered why a perfect, complete, all knowing God would get lonely? If he has needs, he ain't God.

The Christian faith isn't tenable no matter how you approach it. Why don't you just accept that?

 

Not on this one D. If it's in the Bible, please show me the stated reason for tempting A&E. Blessings as always.

 

 

Also, not one of you have said what would be the outcome had A&E just done what God had said.....They would have still been in the Garden, "naked and afraid"....lol.

 

 

No End, God didn't tempt them. He left them helpless and unable to do what he demanded. He didn't give them the knowledge to be able to comprehend good and evil, then commanded them to do good.

 

If you want to see a real good analogy on this, read the OP.  

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

 

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

I see your point fine. We are left to speculating why God subjected humanity to evil....it will remain speculation. Personally, I think he wanted to create an entity with his capacity.....a friend....i.e. it's lonely at the top.....hence the subjection. It appears you have chosen sides. Happy life and don't smoke to much of that good and evil weed or it will end in death.

 

No. Just, no. Clearly, you missed my point ENTIRELY. We are NOT speculating as to WHY God subjected us to evil, or allowed evil in this world. I was making a point about the "goodness of God" as displayed in the bible. In order to make a judgment on whether a person is "good" or "bad", we humans look at the behavior of said person and weigh his actions, good or bad, and whichever side of that scale is heaviest, that's what determines " good" or "bad". Since God's holy text, the Bible, is supposed to be everything we need to know about God and his standard for morality, we should be able to look at His actions in the bible to see His " goodness" displayed...correct? So the first couple chapters we see god creating the world, then he creates people and over in chapter 3 we see his FIRST interaction with his creation. If you think of God as a mature, adult, parental figure, and Adam and Eve as innocent children (doesn't matter that they were adults, they were basically sheltered in paradise, never knowing danger, good, evil, or any abstract concept like that) then my parable IS THE EXACT SAME STORY. God gave his innocent creatures a test designed for them to fail and punished them for it. IS THAT "GOOD?" To sit there and defend this story and say that the god of the bible is "good" is just deluded. And this is just ONE. I have many more posts like this one coming. These ancient myths are just that. Myths. And religious fundamentalists have been using them to manipulate and control people for thousands of years. But I digress. Thanks for playing, E3, but you lose. Your religion cripples your intellect in this battle of logic. Come and try again when you have an open mind.

 

PS: Fun fact: there are no documented cases of deaths resulting in THC overdose, aka- "smoking too much of that good and evil weed."

 

P.p.s: LIFE ends in death, so enjoy it!

[duderonomy]

I picked a bad thread to not have any upvotes left. Someone get a hold of WebmDave right now and tell him I'll pay $20 for just ten more!!!

[Guest end3]

 

 

E3, I did not rewrite Genesis 3 as I see fit. I just took an old myth from bronze age Palestine designed to bring guilt to people just for being HUMAN, and I drew a parellel to modern society, taking the EXACT SAME ELEMENTS of the story. Anyone with a brain can see that its the same damn story. Its just that the main character is a human, and a crazy one at that. If you can not see my point, that if we took the same personality traits that were assigned to God 3500 years ago and gave them to a human...that it makes the human look like an asshole, then you are too fogged up by religion and there's no point continuing this discussion. It is just going to go nowhere.

I see your point fine. We are left to speculating why God subjected humanity to evil....it will remain speculation. Personally, I think he wanted to create an entity with his capacity.....a friend....i.e. it's lonely at the top.....hence the subjection. It appears you have chosen sides. Happy life and don't smoke to much of that good and evil weed or it will end in death.

 

 

 

 

No. Just, no. Clearly, you missed my point ENTIRELY. We are NOT speculating as to WHY God subjected us to evil, or allowed evil in this world. I was making a point about the "goodness of God" as displayed in the bible. In order to make a judgment on whether a person is "good" or "bad", we humans look at the behavior of said person and weigh his actions, good or bad, and whichever side of that scale is heaviest, that's what determines " good" or "bad". Since God's holy text, the Bible, is supposed to be everything we need to know about God and his standard for morality, we should be able to look at His actions in the bible to see His " goodness" displayed...correct? So the first couple chapters we see god creating the world, then he creates people and over in chapter 3 we see his FIRST interaction with his creation. If you think of God as a mature, adult, parental figure, and Adam and Eve as innocent children (doesn't matter that they were adults, they were basically sheltered in paradise, never knowing danger, good, evil, or any abstract concept like that) then my parable IS THE EXACT SAME STORY. God gave his innocent creatures a test designed for them to fail and punished them for it. IS THAT "GOOD?" To sit there and defend this story and say that the god of the bible is "good" is just deluded. And this is just ONE. I have many more posts like this one coming. These ancient myths are just that. Myths. And religious fundamentalists have been using them to manipulate and control people for thousands of years. But I digress. Thanks for playing, E3, but you lose. Your religion cripples your intellect in this battle of logic. Come and try again when you have an open mind.

 

PS: Fun fact: there are no documented cases of deaths resulting in THC overdose, aka- "smoking too much of that good and evil weed."

 

P.p.s: LIFE ends in death, so enjoy it!

 

You said the conversation would end up nowhere....which it will BECAUSE, and REGARDLESS of the God is good mantra, that ultimately the conversation ends up, why did God subject humanity to evil. You did not lose me with your "original point".....I just jumped to the end.

 

Look, if I were God, then certainly I would be and AM extremely protective of my children....but there comes a time where we are left to letting them interact with the world and everything that means. I don't, and neither should you I would gather, that they remain unknowing and unable to choose life over death, freedom over fear. I can see your point, and can see it clearly from a human perspective...but I would hope that you don't get mired in the sludge of standing in one place to garner your ultimate/finished perspective. We good?