Questions For Our Universalist And/or Liberal Christians

[NotBlinded]

But, if one has had such extreme literalism shoved at them for so long, does this interfere with your ability to move on after you've left Christianity? Do you feel so much anger that you've been lied to - that the Bible is NOT what you were taught that you struggle to let go and move beyond it?

 

Do you feel so much anger over these things, that you find it difficult to trust normal human - spiritual experiences when they naturally enter your life?

Indeed...it is very difficult and blinding. I am speaking for myself here, and it isn't easy to admit that I was just as blind after I deconverted as I was before. No...that is really not true, but I was still unable to see behind the literalist mindset. I didn't realize what I was doing. I thought if it was the word of god, then it all had to make perfect sense, which is correct. Then I thought since it didn't make sense, it couldn't be the word of god, which is also correct. I was still basing my understanding on the thought that either it was or it wasn't. But, it was still that black and white thinking that didn't allow me to actually see what it might really be...a book of spiritual insights in the form of mythology. It didn't have to be an either/or understanding...that was the mistake. It is not a book from god but it is a book written about god. It doesn't matter which god because it is just a story that is supposed to point one to a different level of understanding.

 

So, it seemed that I had escaped the black and white thinking by rejecting the black and white thinking while still thinking in black and white. Then, I dared to dab a little black and a dab a little white and came up with purple! Imagine my surprise! I hope that makes sense...

[dibby]

But, if one has had such extreme literalism shoved at them for so long, does this interfere with your ability to move on after you've left Christianity? Do you feel so much anger that you've been lied to - that the Bible is NOT what you were taught that you struggle to let go and move beyond it?

 

Do you feel so much anger over these things, that you find it difficult to trust normal human - spiritual experiences when they naturally enter your life?

Indeed...it is very difficult and blinding. I am speaking for myself here, and it isn't easy to admit that I was just as blind after I deconverted as I was before. No...that is really not true, but I was still unable to see behind the literalist mindset. I didn't realize what I was doing. I thought if it was the word of god, then it all had to make perfect sense, which is correct. Then I thought since it didn't make sense, it couldn't be the word of god, which is also correct. I was still basing my understanding on the thought that either it was or it wasn't. But, it was still that black and white thinking that didn't allow me to actually see what it might really be...a book of spiritual insights in the form of mythology. It didn't have to be an either/or understanding...that was the mistake. It is not a book from god but it is a book written about god. It doesn't matter which god because it is just a story that is supposed to point one to a different level of understanding.

 

So, it seemed that I had escaped the black and white thinking by rejecting the black and white thinking while still thinking in black and white. Then, I dared to dab a little black and a dab a little white and came up with purple! Imagine my surprise! I hope that makes sense...

 

 

But, if one has had such extreme literalism shoved at them for so long, does this interfere with your ability to move on after you've left Christianity? Do you feel so much anger that you've been lied to - that the Bible is NOT what you were taught that you struggle to let go and move beyond it?

 

Do you feel so much anger over these things, that you find it difficult to trust normal human - spiritual experiences when they naturally enter your life?

Indeed...it is very difficult and blinding. I am speaking for myself here, and it isn't easy to admit that I was just as blind after I deconverted as I was before. No...that is really not true, but I was still unable to see behind the literalist mindset. I didn't realize what I was doing. I thought if it was the word of god, then it all had to make perfect sense, which is correct. Then I thought since it didn't make sense, it couldn't be the word of god, which is also correct. I was still basing my understanding on the thought that either it was or it wasn't. But, it was still that black and white thinking that didn't allow me to actually see what it might really be...a book of spiritual insights in the form of mythology. It didn't have to be an either/or understanding...that was the mistake. It is not a book from god but it is a book written about god. It doesn't matter which god because it is just a story that is supposed to point one to a different level of understanding.

 

So, it seemed that I had escaped the black and white thinking by rejecting the black and white thinking while still thinking in black and white. Then, I dared to dab a little black and a dab a little white and came up with purple! Imagine my surprise! I hope that makes sense...

I don,t know how you guys felt. But I couldn,t even look at a bible for the first couple of years after my deconversion. In the beginning I felt sooo guilty if I even thought about looking inside it, then just angry.....now its just a book!! Amazing the hold such beliefs can have on a person!

[NotBlinded]

I don,t know how you guys felt. But I couldn,t even look at a bible for the first couple of years after my deconversion. In the beginning I felt sooo guilty if I even thought about looking inside it, then just angry.....now its just a book!! Amazing the hold such beliefs can have on a person!

The only time I looked at it was to get ammunition to fight the fundies! And, yes, I was usually angry.

[Open_Minded]

I don,t know how you guys felt. But I couldn,t even look at a bible for the first couple of years after my deconversion. In the beginning I felt sooo guilty if I even thought about looking inside it, then just angry.....now its just a book!! Amazing the hold such beliefs can have on a person!

The only time I looked at it was to get ammunition to fight the fundies! And, yes, I was usually angry.

 

So....

 

After you've decided the anger is getting in the way ... what do you do? How do you get past it?

[BuddhistCommunist]

Great thread everyone! I was a very liberal christian for all my life. I wasn't sure about hell, but I believed in evolution and used science for everything. Jesus seems to be the cross between: Buddha, Mithras and krishna... but there are still good teachings in there.

[dibby]

So....

 

After you've decided the anger is getting in the way ... what do you do? How do you get past it?

 

Part of the natural healing process. Also, look at early christian history, how the bible came to us, knowledge is a powerful healer. Forgive the fundamentalists was important for me.......it is only made up of people just like me. It was my state of mind that made me receptive to their message. With the knowledge we all have, we are in a good position to help others when they become disillusioned.

[NotBlinded]

I don,t know how you guys felt. But I couldn,t even look at a bible for the first couple of years after my deconversion. In the beginning I felt sooo guilty if I even thought about looking inside it, then just angry.....now its just a book!! Amazing the hold such beliefs can have on a person!

The only time I looked at it was to get ammunition to fight the fundies! And, yes, I was usually angry.

 

So....

 

After you've decided the anger is getting in the way ... what do you do? How do you get past it?

It wasn't something I was trying to do really. It just was an effect of my spritual journey that slapped me in the face. An epiphany if you will... Everything tied together; all the world's beliefs, new and ancient, came together under the umbrella of awakening to what the underlying message was, or the essence of the teachings. All the rest is just supernatual mumbo-jumbo that can easily be dismissed as non-sense, but that didn't take away the essence of what was left. I received a great respect for what people try to do through the use of myth as it realtes to life. Not how it relates to the afterlife...no one can know that. I try to keep the common sense and get rid of the non-sense. I had no reason to feel anger toward a book anymore because I just saw it as a book now. The bible being the "Word of God" was what was causing my anger because we all know here that this god is a monster. I no longer felt the need to be angry with a character of a story-line! I finally understood that I was still fighting against something that I didn't believe was right.

 

Maybe an analogy might be helpful. I don't know if it will be an apt analogy or not, but I'll try.

 

Let's say I have been reading a book all my life about a character that was based on a true story then all of a sudden this author releases another book that changed the main character to something that didn't fit with the first description, or personality of the character. I start to claim that the original character cannot possibly exist because the newer understanding made so much more sense. I defend this new character against the old, not knowing that I am trying to fight against something that was never what it was said to be to begin with. It was always the latter, but it was a just a way for people to try to understand the essence of the character. The character never really changed, but my understanding did. I was fighting against a description. The author just removed all the non-sense that was attributed to this character and what was left was the essence of the being. All the mumbo-jumbo (or personality attributed to this essence) was removed and what was left was what it truly was.

 

I see this the same way as I see all of humanity now. There is an essence of peace, love, and joy that every human wishes to be in. We don't strive for unhappiness in life; we strive for happiness and peace. This is our nature. All the descriptions of people that are evil and do evil things is a result of them believing that they are what they are described to be, by themselves and by others. They know no different. Labeling is a very powerful motivator. But, I believe, that underneath this outward appearance of mind, there is still an essence inside that wants the same things such as happiness and peace. Of course this matters how much they identify themselves with what they believe themselves to be.

 

Maybe that made some sense???

 

Another thought...my nephew's wife was telling me about the movie Hotel Rawanda last night and this is a good example of what I mention above. It appears that Belguim came in and separated the people into two 'races'; one of light skin and small noses and the other as dark skin and large noses. The former was treated with a great deal more respect. Well, we all probably know what has been happening there even after the people that separated them pulled out. They are slaughtering each other because they believed what the Belguims told them. Why are they still fighting? They are fighting against what they believe the other person to be. They are the same 'race'. They are the same essence. They each want to live a happy, peaceful life. They just think the only way to achieve this is to kill off the ones that oppress them. They believe each other to be evil, so evil results. What would the result be if they believed each other to only want what they want, peace and happiness?

 

Edit: Of course I spelled Rwanda and Belgians wrong!