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What's The Point?


laura
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What's the point? That, itself, is the point exactly: there is no point. If there is a purpose or meaning to life...if there is an afterlife....if there is anything worth being here for....these things, if the exist, can only be known through the subjective opinion of groups and individuals. That they are subjectively determined proves them to be nothing. So I ask you, (even though I have already answered my own question), what is the POINT in artificially creating feelings of happiness just long enough for life to finally cease? It will ALL be a meaningless endeavor in the end. Why stay any longer? It would be pointless.

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You're right.

On the other hand, a eternal life (Afterlife, Reincarnation) is just as pointless. You go on etrenally...In a heaven like think you're eternally happy, in a hell you're eternally suffing. Nobody and probably not even yourself would benefit from that.

With this, I think think about the point/meaning of life is pointless. :grin:

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Whatever it is I'm doing here, I only get one shot at it. Once dead, I'll never do anything else, so if I'm going to do anything, I have to do it now.

You can do it now, but it will still likely be pointless. You may not even have any memory of the things you've done afterward.

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Laura...

 

I am one of the few, supposedly lucky men who go through life not worrying much about *what if???*.

Have my regrets and sad moments, have things I'd love to be able to go back and untangle those things I've caused by comission and omission.

 

The big however is contained in the slight fact that no matter what I do, life continues to pan out, shit happens despite my desire to do it my way.

 

Whatever Life is, it waits for no one. Time continues to slip on, decades then generations happen, we pass through ours on a scale we may not ever understand.

 

What do we do between time were are dragged screaming into the the world and the time we pass out of it?

 

For most part, entirely up to you and the circumstances you find yourself in.

Can change some things, can work, manipulate, and make things change in directions you'd like things to go.

If you choose to do nothing and in turn are swept by the tides of time, you get what you work for.

 

I elect to try and do the things and shit that interest me.

Now I have a kid, soon to be old enough to be on his own (fuckin' how time flies awy from us!).

Had one kickass good life, having done crazy shit, been cool places, had loves, lovers, friends and enemies.

Am "sliding in to home with an abused body, beat to fuck and able to say "WHAT A FUCKIN' RIDE, MAN!""..

 

Sit back and wonder what Life deals, or get into the Game. The only way not to do anything is of course to either sit in a self supporting cave, or voluntarily "check out".

Checking out will have you miss the asskicking fun, drama, and excitement that is found to those who seek such.

 

kevin, been_beat_to_shit_still_riding, mean_old_man, L

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Whatever it is I'm doing here, I only get one shot at it. Once dead, I'll never do anything else, so if I'm going to do anything, I have to do it now.

You can do it now, but it will still likely be pointless. You may not even have any memory of the things you've done afterward.

 

 

so?

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Basically, the responses I am getting from you all is to live life to it's fullest, and do whatever must be done to maintian a sense of happiness ie think positive etc.... But still that does not satisfy my dilemna. There is still likely no meaning to any of it in the end.

 

I think that the question i Originally asked wasn't rather a question, But a statement of the hopelessness and pointlessness that I feel in this life. So, I supposse I've waisted your time. My apologies.

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Are you still wrestling with overcoming a Christian addiction. If so, don't worry, those feelings will eventually pass. Religion offers you a ultimate purpose, but it's based on a lie, so it's not truely a purpose at all. If anything, it creates those artificial feelings you are talking about. A lot of people feel like they have no purpose after giving up religion. Also, I know I felt a lot of futility and angst in my younger days, which slowly went away as I got older.

 

I have come to take a more naturalistic view of life. Although it is not as grand as the Christain promise, it is more real to me, something I can sink my teeth into. Our life has purpose to nature, or otherwise none of us would be here. We may or may not survive as individual entities, but our offspring and how we affect our surroundings will last for a very long time. If we raise our children with love and respect, work to give them a life of hope and promise, and teach them to live in harmony with their surroundings, then hopefully they will do the same with their children, and so on and so forth. This would help ensure the survival of our race, which seems to be one of nature's (and therefore our) highest goals. However idealistic it may sound, I think it's a much more reasonable and achievable goal than the one offered by religions, and for me it is way more satisfying.

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What's the point? That, itself, is the point exactly: there is no point. If there is a purpose or meaning to life...if there is an afterlife....if there is anything worth being here for....these things, if the exist, can only be known through the subjective opinion of groups and individuals. That they are subjectively determined proves them to be nothing. So I ask you, (even though I have already answered my own question), what is the POINT in artificially creating feelings of happiness just long enough for life to finally cease? It will ALL be a meaningless endeavor in the end. Why stay any longer? It would be pointless.

 

Life is my religion. To me, living is my chosen creed. Whether or not I will go on after this life is beside the point; the point is all we have is the here and now, and we'd be amiss to make no use of it. Even if all we do are mundane things and care more about getting the latest mods for Morrowind, then that's just fine. Hell, it's better than deluding yourself into thinking you have to save the world for Jesus and Friends.

 

I like it like this. I thought my life would be listless and pointless without Xianity or aspiring to some god's cause or religion. But now, I see that since religions are all man-made, and anything that man has made man can destroy. Now, I see one of the most wonderful concepts, that there is no point to life!

 

Yes, that is wonderful. Beautiful beyond my wildest dreams. Since there is no special purpose to life other than to live, I get to find my own meaning in my life. I get to define for myself, on my own terms, the life I live and the importance of the people and things in it. I don't need to kiss some god's ass or please some divine tyrant; I can just do what makes me happy, live according to the basic human ethics I feel within me, and otherwise enjoy my time here.

 

My advice, if you indeed want it, is to do the same. Live your life and enjoy your short stay here. Find meaning in the things which please you, and if you want something more, find a worthy cause or two. Basically, just be the good human being you have all the potential in the world to be, and don't ever let a cult define your life for you again. No need to apologize or anything - life is to be lived.

 

That is truly the Good News! Ramen!

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Laura, I had a really hard time dealing with pointlessness. Not now, I got over all of that about a year ago. There are Christians who feel like life is pointless too - just a bus station on the way to Heaven. But really the dilema passes, and no point is needed. What point did life have as a Christian that you can't have as an Ex-Christian? Christians want to do good in the world, help others, respect life, etc. Some don't give a shit about any of that. I don't know what to say about it.

It's like when a drug addict finally stops after years of trying. There is no explanation for why pointlessness is unimportant. Personally I think people put too much emphasis on all this meaning crap, it's a load of garbage.

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Laura, I've been asking myself the same thing. For 38 years, I've been thinking that there would be something better after death. As I let go of xian concepts, heaven/hell, a god who cares, I feel empty.

 

What I've been thinking about is how planned life seems. I live in the mountains in Northern California. The way nature takes care of itself. I've no idea what's behind all of it maybe nothing. I watch as road workers reroute rivers for more roads. Then a powerful storm moves in and nature moves everything back to where she wanted it. To me, that's intelligence.

 

There's intelligence in how our bodies work, in making love, and having children. Doesn't always work out, but there is a sense of purpose in all of it. Or we'd all be walking around with three heads.

 

I figure that death is probably covered too. I just gotta get use to not knowing what's out there. What's keeps me on this path to rid myself of xianity is the freedom to be me. Figure out who I am and where I want to go. I'm not performing or gaining the eye of some god out there. I'm being and doing for me.

 

What surpises me is that I'm not getting drunk and killing people like "they" said I would if I left god. Seems to me I'm a better person for it.

 

Yet, I understand the emptiness and the lack of point. (Or I think I do.) I feel sad, hurt, and angry. I lived a huge lie and believed in something that isn't there. I'm looking for meaning too.

 

I figure if something like the dumb squirel can undo my husband garden protection and fences, then there's gotta be some sort of intelligence out there. Or my husband can't build a solid fence. I'd better stop now...

 

s

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Basically, the responses I am getting from you all is to live life to it's fullest, and do whatever must be done to maintian a sense of happiness ie think positive etc.... But still that does not satisfy my dilemna. There is still likely no meaning to any of it in the end.

 

I think that the question i Originally asked wasn't rather a question, But a statement of the hopelessness and pointlessness that I feel in this life. So, I supposse I've waisted your time. My apologies.

Laura,

 

May I ask you a couple of questions? Okay, I'm too impatient to wait so I will ask away! :grin:

 

Are there any songs that you love to listen to over and over? Do you like to dance? If so, can you tell me what the purpose of your favorite song is or your favorite dance? Is it the beginning, middle or end, or is the entire thing meaningful?

 

Within the melody of the song are it's crescendos and decrescendos making the entire piece a work of art. That is the purpose of life.

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To be alive -- is Power --

Existence -- in itself --

Without a further function --

Omnipotence -- Enough --

 

To be alive -- and Will!

'Tis able as a God --

The Maker -- of Ourselves -- be what --

Such being Finitude!

 

- Emily Dickinson

 

 

I got goosebumps the first time I read that. I still do.

Says so much in so few words.

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Basically, the responses I am getting from you all is to live life to it's fullest, and do whatever must be done to maintian a sense of happiness ie think positive etc.... But still that does not satisfy my dilemna. There is still likely no meaning to any of it in the end.

 

I think that the question i Originally asked wasn't rather a question, But a statement of the hopelessness and pointlessness that I feel in this life. So, I supposse I've waisted your time. My apologies.

Damn. You sound really depressed. I'm sorry to hear this. Meaning of any kind is in perception. Whether it is in good meaning or "no meaning", both are arrived at through what we are choosing to see. So "no meaning" is also subjective. Do you want to be happy, or do you want to despair?

 

If you feel you cannot get past despair, you should fist seek out those who can help you through despair. Go to a professional and tell them your feelings. There is always a reason for hope. Life is full of wonder, if we can only open our eyes to it and accept it. It's there for everyone.

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I get those "what's the point" questions myself from time to time. Not much fun, but they always seem to pass and I get on with life.

 

If you look around and see a fucked up pointless world then it may end up being that way. Believe it or not, their is more to the world if you give it a chance. I think the most important thing we can do is work toward making the world a better place for everyone. Being able to pass on your knowledge, ease someone's suffering, or help someone out when they are at the bottom is the most important thing we can do. It's not something you have to seek out, the oportunities come up all the time to some degree. It may not feel like it matters in the "big picture", but it does to the person you help. What we do is who we are (not in a job sense). It's how we pass ourselves on and shape the world.

 

Having a finite life challenges us to do what we can and not squander opportunities. Don't let life pass you by, don't leave things unsaid to those you care about, don't leave important things undone.

 

Give it time, things will turn around. I think everyone goes through a "what's the point" phase.

 

"And thus you will dance to your death here, on this hilltop, at the end of the day. And in your last dance you will tell of your struggles, of the battles you have won and those you have lost; you will tell of your joys and bewilderments upon encountering personal power. Your dance will tell about the secrets and about the marvels you have stored. And your death will sit here and watch you." - Carlos Castaneda

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So I ask you, (even though I have already answered my own question), what is the POINT in artificially creating feelings of happiness just long enough for life to finally cease? It will ALL be a meaningless endeavor in the end. Why stay any longer? It would be pointless.

Hello Laura :grin:

 

Feelings that we experience are not artificial. Our feeling that we experience in life, while ultimately subjective, are very real. I doubt the feeling of "hopelessness" and "pointlessness" you speak of seem artificial to you.

 

Basically, the responses I am getting from you all is to live life to it's fullest, and do whatever must be done to maintian a sense of happiness ie think positive etc.... But still that does not satisfy my dilemna. There is still likely no meaning to any of it in the end.

"The hard truth seems to be this: We live in a vast and awesome universe in which, daily, suns are made and worlds destroyed, where humanity clings to an obscure clod of rock. The significance of our lives and our fragile realm derives from our own wisdom and courage. WE are the custodians of life's meaning. We would prefer it to be otherwise, of course, but there is no compelling evidence for a cosmic Parent who will care for us and save us from ourselves. It’s up to us to give meaning to our lives, individually and as a species." - Carl Sagan.

 

I think Sagan nailed it. It sounds like you're going through a tough time Laura, and I think many of the members here empathize and understand the concerns you're wrestling with. Remember, tough times don't last. Tough people do. Your feeling of hopelessness will not last. Make your own meaning.

 

R.A.

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To be alive -- is Power --

Existence -- in itself --

Without a further function --

Omnipotence -- Enough --

 

To be alive -- and Will!

'Tis able as a God --

The Maker -- of Ourselves -- be what --

Such being Finitude!

 

- Emily Dickinson

 

 

I got goosebumps the first time I read that. I still do.

Says so much in so few words.

That is a powerful poem! Glory! This is my magically inspired Photoshop rendition of it:

 

power.jpg

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Basically, the responses I am getting from you all is to live life to it's fullest, and do whatever must be done to maintian a sense of happiness ie think positive etc.... But still that does not satisfy my dilemna. There is still likely no meaning to any of it in the end.

 

I think that the question i Originally asked wasn't rather a question, But a statement of the hopelessness and pointlessness that I feel in this life. So, I supposse I've waisted your time. My apologies.

 

Laura, I've felt the exact same despair that you feel now. And right now I don't. I don't really know how I got to that place except by taking control of my life; deconversion was part of my despair, don't know if it is for you, but just getting in touch again with who I am, not what an ancient book said I should be, or who other brainwashed Xtian types expected me to be. It's true that afterlife is not provable or unprovable, prelife is not either, all that is real beyond certainty is here and now. I don't have any 'deep' answers but I do know where you're at and my heart goes out to you.

 

bdp

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Basically, the responses I am getting from you all is to live life to it's fullest, and do whatever must be done to maintian a sense of happiness ie think positive etc.... But still that does not satisfy my dilemna. There is still likely no meaning to any of it in the end.

 

I think that the question i Originally asked wasn't rather a question, But a statement of the hopelessness and pointlessness that I feel in this life. So, I supposse I've waisted your time. My apologies.

Laura,

 

May I ask you a couple of questions? Okay, I'm too impatient to wait so I will ask away! :grin:

 

Are there any songs that you love to listen to over and over? Do you like to dance? If so, can you tell me what the purpose of your favorite song is or your favorite dance? Is it the beginning, middle or end, or is the entire thing meaningful?

 

Within the melody of the song are it's crescendos and decrescendos making the entire piece a work of art. That is the purpose of life.

To answer your question, no, there are no songs that I frequently listen to. I'll get addicted to a few, and listen to them over and over, but soon lose interest. I am this way with everything else.

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To answer your question, no, there are no songs that I frequently listen to. I'll get addicted to a few, and listen to them over and over, but soon lose interest. I am this way with everything else.

 

That's because you're so busy thinking about how pointless everything is.

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Basically, the responses I am getting from you all is to live life to it's fullest, and do whatever must be done to maintian a sense of happiness ie think positive etc.... But still that does not satisfy my dilemna. There is still likely no meaning to any of it in the end.

 

I think that the question i Originally asked wasn't rather a question, But a statement of the hopelessness and pointlessness that I feel in this life. So, I supposse I've waisted your time. My apologies.

Damn. You sound really depressed. I'm sorry to hear this. Meaning of any kind is in perception. Whether it is in good meaning or "no meaning", both are arrived at through what we are choosing to see. So "no meaning" is also subjective. Do you want to be happy, or do you want to despair?

 

If you feel you cannot get past despair, you should fist seek out those who can help you through despair. Go to a professional and tell them your feelings. There is always a reason for hope. Life is full of wonder, if we can only open our eyes to it and accept it. It's there for everyone.

 

I understand the point that you are trying to make, and I definititly agree that meaning (just as morality) is subjective. Unfortunately, that leads me exactly to my conclusion that there is no meaning. Let me give you an example: Person A believes there is meaning to life. Whatever that meaning IS is obviously subject to him the individual. Person B believes there is meaning, and he too has his own subjective definition of what the meaning is. This can go on and on. This principal that it is all subjective, only prooves to me that there is no meaning. Meaning to me seems like it should be a concrete thing. Let me go further. Let's say "no meaning" (as you put it ) is also subjective. This means that there either is or is not meaning. But it is subjective, so not only do I not know what the meaning IS (if there is one, theoretically), but now I do not even know if there IS meaning-because it is subjective. This only leads me further to my conclusion that there is no meaning. period. All of this is why in my first post, I felt like I had already answered my own question, and that I'm really wasting your time. I suppose it is my neverending curiousity about what others will say, and my desire for a magical (but I believe non-existent) answer.

 

To answer your question, no, there are no songs that I frequently listen to. I'll get addicted to a few, and listen to them over and over, but soon lose interest. I am this way with everything else.

 

That's because you're so busy thinking about how pointless everything is.

Asimov, What you said holds not even a tinge of truth to it. You're other two previous responses of "So" lead me to believe that perhaps you're not particularly interested, that you don't genuinely care about the topic, or that you and I simply are not thinking on the same type of plane. Please don't misunderstand me and think that I put myself above you; I by no means do. Your responses are fine; say what you think, but I would personally prefer that you consider the validadity of what your saying first.

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Asimov, What you said holds not even a tinge of truth to it. You're other two previous responses of "So" lead me to believe that perhaps you're not particularly interested, that you don't genuinely care about the topic, or that you and I simply are not thinking on the same type of plane. Please don't misunderstand me and think that I put myself above you; I by no means do. Your responses are fine; say what you think, but I would personally prefer that you consider the validadity of what your saying first.

 

My questions (so?) were because I failed to even see the point of what you were saying.

 

So what if life is objectively meaningless?

 

You believe in God, don't you? Wouldn't that garner an objective meaning to life? If not, why?

 

 

I just don't like the way existentials think.

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Hello all.

 

I don't know if I have the authority to do this, being that I'm not completley "in the know" about how these forums work, but I think I would like to end this topic. Thankyou all for you responses and support.

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I hear ya Laura.. I see your point, there is none. All the replies still end with the cold hard brutal "ok, but, what's the POINT?"

 

It's funny though.. when you're happy, and say life has meaning, people try to knock you down and kick you to the ground. No matter how happy or what you think you accomplished, you'll be knocked down.

 

Then once you're down and realize there really is no point, no matter what you do, it's still pointless... we do it anyway, what else do we have.. but it is pointless. And when you SAY so, then the same people who kicked you down will build you up. Only enough until you're back up again, so they can kick you down again.

 

It's a rollercoaster.

 

If you say you live for sex, you'll be criticized. If you say you live to have fun, enjoy, share, love, etc.. whatever it is.. you'll probably be told about all the people who have nothing, who are starving, suffering, dying.

 

Doesn't matter what you say, you'll find half the people agreeing and the other half disagreeing, sometimes depending on the day of the week or time of day when you ask them.

 

I spent the last 40 years observing, learning, researching, pondering, thinking, considering. Nobody ever said anything that really made sense of the ancient writings. Until I read something 30 years old now and re-read some of the old texts. It all actually makes sense! Pure science and something we're trying to do ourselves. The same people screaming science science science are the ones saying how absurd a scientific beginning would be.

 

Even if it would be the case, there's still no POINT to any of it.

 

In reality, other than other people's claims and emotions, there's no point in "YOUR" life at all, to anyone else (except THEY'D say they'd be upset if "YOU" ended it on your own, or by accident).... to anyone else except the one looking back in the mirror.

 

We use our eyes to see and judge and guide us... and we see 5.9 bil other people... everyone.. but ourselves... well, unless someone video tapes you and then chances are you won't like watching it.

 

Seems like no matter the topic, half the world will disagree.

 

We're all just hamsters running on a wheel.

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