The Attitude Of Jesus

[Guest sub_zer0]

I noticed alot in my recent studies, that Jesus appears to be forgiving and generous. I noticed that it seems more sinister than this though. I read this verse that was compared to something the Buddha said in "Jesus and Buddha: the Parrallel sayings"

 

"And whoever will not recieve you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet."

-Matthew 10:14

 

So its like turning the other cheek. Until I looked just one verse further....

 

"Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodam and Gamorrah in the day of Judgement than for that city!"

-Matthew 10:15

 

Do you want the wicked to inherit the earth, cause if you don't they need to be purged from it or turn towards the grace of God.

 

SO much for turning the other cheek when it comes to non-believers, promising divine punishment for those that will not listen to his disciples.

 

"But whoever denies me before men, him I will also deny before my father who is in heaven."

Matthew 10:33

 

SO much for forgiveness! This is more of the attitude of the Columbine kids who killed people because they were picked on, not the testament of a "Perfect, Forgiving" being.

 

Forgiveness is for those who believe in Him and for those who DO NOT deny His name before men. Why should somebody who curses Christ all day long get forgiveness?

 

 

Hebrews 10:26For if we go on )sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

 

27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

[Lycorth]

Do you want the wicked to inherit the earth, cause if you don't they need to be purged from it or turn towards the grace of God.

 

Define "wicked" and how you would "purge" them from the earth, aside from turn them into Xians.

 

Forgiveness is for those who believe in Him and for those who DO NOT deny His name before men. Why should somebody who curses Christ all day long get forgiveness?

 

First of all, what does that somebody need forgiveness for? If you mean for "cursing" Jesus, why should a person not curse this Jesus? After all, he preached a doctrine of pacifism out of one side of his mouth (disgusting on its own), and wrath and retribution for those who didn't believe on the other. After all, all Jesus came to do (if we are to believe the Babblical account) was blackmail the whole world into becoming his biggest fans or else be eternally tormented. Men should be commended for cursing that garbage.

 

Furthermore, if a person decides to not believe in jesus or Biblegodzilla, how can they be angry with that person? After all, it's not like they are making regular public appearances in undeniable form to tell us precisely what they want from us; if your religion is to be believed, your gods entrusted fallible human inventions (such as language and persuasiveness) to spread his "saving" message. That only displays that your gods are idiots simply by dint of the fact they entrusted a message so ostensibly valuable to a medium so frail. Therefore, unless your gods decide their message is really worth hearing and decide to use better methods to give it to us, we have an obligaiton not to believe, since believing would be in violation of our own good sense, and would encourage us to believe other fables just as easily.

 

But, since your gods do not exist, there's nothing to worry about. That is the "good news" as far as I'm concerned.

[BuddhistCommunist]

I noticed alot in my recent studies, that Jesus appears to be forgiving and generous. I noticed that it seems more sinister than this though. I read this verse that was compared to something the Buddha said in "Jesus and Buddha: the Parrallel sayings"

 

"And whoever will not recieve you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet."

-Matthew 10:14

 

So its like turning the other cheek. Until I looked just one verse further....

 

"Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodam and Gamorrah in the day of Judgement than for that city!"

-Matthew 10:15

 

Do you want the wicked to inherit the earth, cause if you don't they need to be purged from it or turn towards the grace of God.

 

SO much for turning the other cheek when it comes to non-believers, promising divine punishment for those that will not listen to his disciples.

 

"But whoever denies me before men, him I will also deny before my father who is in heaven."

Matthew 10:33

 

SO much for forgiveness! This is more of the attitude of the Columbine kids who killed people because they were picked on, not the testament of a "Perfect, Forgiving" being.

 

Forgiveness is for those who believe in Him and for those who DO NOT deny His name before men. Why should somebody who curses Christ all day long get forgiveness?

 

 

Hebrews 10:26For if we go on )sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

 

27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

 

You Fool. You don't even know what Wicked is, your narrow perception and lack of real world experience keeps you from that. Your story is the same as the rest, you have a whole different view on forgiveness. Don't you see that christianity is a mental block and all the churches wanted was money back in the old days. The main church leaders don't even believe what they preach. If you were being tortured by Muslims, you would renounce your faith. And you can't say you wouldn't because you have no idea how bad that torture would be. open your mind for once.

 

peace,

BC

[Guest sub_zer0]

You Fool. You don't even know what Wicked is, your narrow perception and lack of real world experience keeps you from that. Your story is the same as the rest, you have a whole different view on forgiveness. Don't you see that christianity is a mental block and all the churches wanted was money back in the old days. The main church leaders don't even believe what they preach. If you were being tortured by Muslims, you would renounce your faith. And you can't say you wouldn't because you have no idea how bad that torture would be. open your mind for once.

 

peace,

BC

 

Forgiveness is reserved for those who believe. Wickedness is all people who do not believe.

 

How am I wrong in that?

[Guest sub_zer0]

Consume - to do away with

to destroy

 

Not torture eternally.

 

The fact that they are done away with and destroyed from God is what the torture is. We all go to either heaven or hell ultimately.

 

Where are you trying to go with this?

 

First of all, what does that somebody need forgiveness for? If you mean for "cursing" Jesus, why should a person not curse this Jesus?

 

That somebody needs to REALIZE that they can be forgiven by Christ and accept Christ as their savior and Lord. Once you get right with Christ, then ask for forgiveness.

 

I am not saying, do not curse Jesus, I am saying that they don't deserve the forgiveness.

 

After all, he preached a doctrine of pacifism out of one side of his mouth (disgusting on its own), and wrath and retribution for those who didn't believe on the other. After all, all Jesus came to do (if we are to believe the Babblical account) was blackmail the whole world into becoming his biggest fans or else be eternally tormented. Men should be commended for cursing that garbage.

 

The doctrine of pasifism was for man treating another man. It has always been that the "Day of the Lord" is to be feared because it is when judgement comes for the acts and disregarding of God.

 

Furthermore, if a person decides to not believe in jesus or Biblegodzilla, how can they be angry with that person? After all, it's not like they are making regular public appearances in undeniable form to tell us precisely what they want from us; if your religion is to be believed, your gods entrusted fallible human inventions (such as language and persuasiveness) to spread his "saving" message. That only displays that your gods are idiots simply by dint of the fact they entrusted a message so ostensibly valuable to a medium so frail. Therefore, unless your gods decide their message is really worth hearing and decide to use better methods to give it to us, we have an obligaiton not to believe, since believing would be in violation of our own good sense, and would encourage us to believe other fables just as easily.

 

But, since your gods do not exist, there's nothing to worry about. That is the "good news" as far as I'm concerned.

 

You got the Bible right in front of you. What more do you need.

 

Here is some good sense to learn...

 

Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

[Guest sub_zer0]

If I am destroyed; I feel no torture, that is where I am going with this. It's no different than being in a deep sleep, you don't miss the hours as they go by, only when one dies, it is eternal death....not eternal torture.

 

No, you see you can't go there. Because when you or I die, according to the Bible where you get your argument from, you either go to Hell or Heaven.

 

Eternal torture is Hell, because there is no God to even try to accept or save you from it. You will realize your grave sin in rebelling against God by not accepting Him constantly yet you can do nothing about it.

[BuddhistCommunist]

If I am destroyed; I feel no torture, that is where I am going with this. It's no different than being in a deep sleep, you don't miss the hours as they go by, only when one dies, it is eternal death....not eternal torture.

 

No, you see you can't go there. Because when you or I die, according to the Bible where you get your argument from, you either go to Hell or Heaven.

 

Eternal torture is Hell, because there is no God to even try to accept or save you from it. You will realize your grave sin in rebelling against God by not accepting Him constantly yet you can do nothing about it.

 

Yeah well I hope you like being in Islamic hell, because Allah hates those that don't believe in him.

[Guest sub_zer0]

Could be one of any hundreds of gods accredited with Creation. Oh, and because the bible says so doesn't work here.

 

It does for you apparently.

 

 

QUOTE: sub_zer0

"27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES."

 

QUOTE: Serene Agnostic Atheist

"Consume - to do away with

to destroy

 

Not torture eternally."

[Guest sub_zer0]

Yeah well I hope you like being in Islamic hell, because Allah hates those that don't believe in him.

 

It's funny throughout this whole discussion, I am now going to something like 3 different Hells, even my own.

 

I love how you align yourself with a religion to try and make me look bad, lol.

 

Wanna bet? I don't give a rats ass what that evil book says is going to happen to me. Hell in Hebrew is the grave...not eternal torture, that is a ridiculous and evil concept. And if there is a god that would do it, it is NOT WORTHY of my love or worship.

 

So because you choose not to be with God, and He sends you where He is not... That is a ridiculous concept? Sounds to me you are getting what you asked for.

 

There is a God who does that, but He also can SAVE YOU FROM IT.

 

Eternal torture is a stupid little doctrine made up by the gospel writers. I'm really not worried about it. However, it does appear that you are in literal hell now, what a miserable little man you are.

 

And how am I in literal hell?

 

Let us not also forget that Satan is the cause of this all!

[Guest sub_zer0]

LOL... Yeah, isn't it great? You say it says this, I say it says that....contradictions abound.

 

No we are in agreement. Since you used it, you are agreeing with the Bible because it says it.

[Mythra]

Let us not also forget that Satan is the cause of this all!

 

Only in your little world, zero.

 

The rest of us know that people are the cause of this all. People invented this whole mess that has you so sucked in. Satan, God, Jesus, Holy Ghost - all integral parts of the story - and what a story. But just a story.

 

Give your life to it if you like. Why not.

 

Some people dedicate their whole lives to studying and searching for sasquatch. Or alien abductions. Or Atlantis. Or pyramid power. Why not Jesus?

 

Everybody needs to be into something I guess.

[Guest sub_zer0]

No we are not in agreement with what the bible says, you twist, I don't. I look at the bible as a whole, you choose the bits and pieces that serve your purpose, while conveniently trying to ignore the discrepancies. I do not ignore the contradictions, I point them out and I do so without twisting words or taking things out of context. I don't need 20 books to tell me what a verse means, I'm smart enough to figure it out on my own.

 

 

Wait you don't need 20 books of the Bible? But I thought you used the whole Bible...

[Ouroboros]

Dude, you here too?

 

blah blah blah wicked blah blah bla earth blah blah blah grace blah blah blah God.

 

Forgiveness blah blah blah believe blah blah blah Christ blah blah blah?

Nope. Not yet. Don't feel anything yet. No hard on. No orgasm. No excitement. Viagra works better...

 

Hebrews 10:26For if we go on )sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

And glory to Cute Bunny, I have the truth, and I'm not sinning anymore. Yippi!!!

 

27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

7th Day Adventists? Oh, sorry the Advertisers. Yeah. I hate them too. Let the FURY OF FIRE CONSUME THEM!!!

 

Forgiveness is reserved for those who believe. Wickedness is all people who do not believe.

Ah. Good. Because I believe in the Cute Bunny. So I get forgiveness too.

 

Do you hear that guys! All of you that don't believe in the Cute Bunny are WICKED! WICKED I SAY! You'll burn in the fury of the fire in the lake of sulphur and rotten fish!

 

How am I wrong in that?

No, you're not wrong, but the green and white striped tie you're wearing to your red-spot shirt is wrong, very wrong! Illegal actually. Will give you a straight pass to Hell, if you ask me!

 

 

LOL... Yeah, isn't it great? You say it says this, I say it says that....contradictions abound.

 

No we are in agreement. Since you used it, you are agreeing with the Bible because it says it.

So... then you're agreing to what Seren says too, since you quoted her.

 

 

FINALLY! Sub0 has deconverted! He believes the Bible is full of contradictions, because Serene said so, and Sub0 quoted her!!! Yay! Welcome

[Mythra]

Hey subby:

 

At least we don't claim that we worship cheesy christ.

 

That right there will take ya right to the express line to the bubbly bar-b-que.

[Ouroboros]

It's funny throughout this whole discussion, I am now going to something like 3 different Hells, even my own.

It doesn't stop there. I can invent hundreds and thousands more. The worst one is when you go to the pickled rotten fish hell. It smells literally as Hell!

 

I love how you align yourself with a religion to try and make me look bad, lol.

No. We're not trying making you look bad. You're doing a good job on your own.

 

So because you choose not to be with God, and He sends you where He is not... That is a ridiculous concept? Sounds to me you are getting what you asked for.

I asked for a piece of apple pie, and see what I get! An Eternal BBQ for God's sake!

 

There is a God who does that, but He also can SAVE YOU FROM IT.

Of course he can. He made it. So it's up to him to clean it up. "If you break it, you fix it..."

 

 

And how am I in literal hell?

Heck, how would I know? You're the one there!

 

Let us not also forget that Satan is the cause of this all!

No, no, no, It's Santa you moron!

[BuddhistCommunist]

sub_zer0

It's funny throughout this whole discussion, I am now going to something like 3 different Hells, even my own.

 

I love how you align yourself with a religion to try and make me look bad, lol.

 

I don't need to make you look bad, you've already lost all your credibility. There are thousands of hells out there, what makes your think we are going to yours. I used to just not believe in GOD, but know I hate the concept of Bible GAWD! And I hate you, I have no respect for you or your cult. If you can't back up any of your claims with anything but a book, you have no credibility and you are just a nuisence.

 

Peace,

BC

[Ouroboros]

Yea, I've never found a good explanation from any pastor for that passage. A gentile woman asks for her daughter to be healed and Jesus first calls her a "dog" and then tells her he didn't come for anyone but the Jews. Sounds racist to me.

That's because it was a translation error, it was supposed to be "dawg". Then it makes sense. Be a homie for homies...

[Vigile]

Do you want the wicked to inherit the earth, cause if you don't they need to be purged from it or turn towards the grace of God.

 

 

Well, I can see that critical thinking is one of your strong suits.

 

Let's see here. Definition of wicked: Those who don't believe in wierd, blood soaked stories. Yes, we want to make sure all the gullible make up god's kingdom and anyone with a brain or who hasn't heard the message, toss 'em in the fire.

 

Definition of a good person: Any bum or idiot who happens to believe wierd blood-soaked stories. This would include these saps:

 

 

 

Just remember what Jesus said:

 

[Alice]

Just recently I have been realising the depth of my denial when I was a christian. I was one of those christians who must have done the fingers in ears 'lalala' thing where hell was concerned - because I didn't really concern myself with it too much ...

 

How horribly selfish - or how horribly fearful? Like a holocaust on looker I must have applied either denial or an 'I'm alright jack' approach to the hell issue. I am sad to admit that I cannot claim I left christianity because of the appalling hell doctrine ... but I like to think this is because I had been spoilt and damaged almost beyond recognition by such a terrible concept.

 

Freed up - as I am now, I find it hard to believe there ever was a time when I didn't stand up and speak out against such an evil, cruel, horrible idea.

 

How ridiculous the efforts I put into child protection in the here and now as a christian look - when I take into account that I was (by my silence) complicit in perpetrating such a travesity of justice and abuse of humanity.

 

If the horrid evil ******* **** ****** ******** (I can't find the words to convey what I am trying to express) that is a literal hell - turns out to be true, I hope I have the courage to spit in God's eye and take my place in standing against it.

[NotBlinded]

Forgiveness is reserved for those who believe. Wickedness is all people who do not believe.

 

How am I wrong in that?

How are you not wrong in that?

 

You are correct in that forgiveness is reserved for those who believe, but you are wrong in that wickedness is all people who do not believe. People are wicked because of what they believe! You are thinking that there is some outside diety that is doing the forgiveness and the wickedness. This is where you are completely wrong. Every evil that people commit is based on the lies they believe to be true. If you don't beleive me, look at the news. There is always somebody commiting atrocities because they believe something that is just not true. You believe a lie so you are doing evil things, like putting yourself above others because they don't believe as you. All wars and evil is perpretated from these beliefs! Your true nature is not wicked but by believing in lies, you do wicked things. This isn't just for people that are religious...it is the condition of mankind! That is what the bible and other spiritual books are trying to get people to understand. It is a myth that tells the story of the condition of humanity. There are parts that are 100% philosophically true, but you can't take them as something that is apart from yourself. You are misunderstanding what your book is trying to tell you!

 

Let me put it like this:

 

Forgiveness is reserved for people that believe.

 

Wickedness is reserved for people that believe.

 

Just be careful what you believe to be true. If is causes division, as what you believe does, then it must be false!

 

Damn...I'm wasting my fingers again.

[NotBlinded]

Let us not also forget that Satan is the cause of this all!

 

Only in your little world, zero.

 

The rest of us know that people are the cause of this all. People invented this whole mess that has you so sucked in. Satan, God, Jesus, Holy Ghost - all integral parts of the story - and what a story. But just a story.

 

And there is so much to be gained by understanding it just as a story and so much to be lost by understanding it as "THE WORD OF GOD". Such a shame...

 

Viagra works better...

The generic brand is cheaper...Mycoxaflopin! (Joke I put in the humor forum!)

[Antlerman]

I'd venture to say that if fundy, eternal torture believing Christians turn out to be right, that the wicked definately would inherit the world...them and their evil god.

Well said. Amen to that. This is one reason I know they're wrong about claiming to know the truth. Jesus said the meek would inherit there earth, and they are not them. All they offer are hollow claims to the truth, with Zero fruits of the Spirit.

 

Phew! I'm sure glad they're going to purged when everyone else inherits the earth!! Dance Jesus, Dance!

[Guest sub_zer0]

I thought forgiveness is to let an offense go. When I was a Christian, I was taught that holding onto unforgiveness or seeking revenge just ate the person up inside, made them calous and bitter. Is god going to be all eaten up inside, callous and bitter? As he continually sustains souls so that they will remain alive so that he can continue to eternally torture him, is he going to start to feel the weight on his conscious that comes from hurting people?

 

So why would God want to forgive somebody who does not believe in Him?

 

Let me make this an easier analogy. Let's say that someone at work insulted you every day. You come to work and you hear insults about you- to your face and behind your back. Inside you are seething, you won't forgive this person. Time passes, they leave the job- but you know someday you will get your chance to meet up with them again. A decade passes, and you get your opportunity. You run into your old coworker when no one else is around and you ask if he is sorry for insulting you. He says no, not really, he always found you to likewise be a rude individual. Now you grab him and knock him over the head and drag him to the basement of your house. You tie him up and you have your chance to take out all your anger on this person for his offenses against you. You feed him just enough to keep him from starving to death. For years, every day you come down to the basement and torture him. You put out cigarettes on his skin, you beat him with splintery boards, you cut him and dump lemon juice on the wounds, you punch and kick him. Every day you do this and often worse.

 

Tell me, would you feel any better tormenting another person? Does it ease your pain or does it make your pain greater. Do you start to feel shameful and dirty? Do you hate yourself after awhile? Does it become a burden to hurt this other being? Does your conscience begin to die little by little?

 

Why do you think god who professes love for his creation would somehow feel differently after a few million years of torture meeted out on billions has passed?

 

You are thinking of it all wrong. God doesn't torment you. He simply isn't there to save you from your own sinful torment which is intensified because of the actual home of the dead who don't believe. God is not in direct control of your torture, He is with the ones who belive in Him in Heaven. Hell is the absence of God - which is what the person wanted to begin with - the absence of God. That was aquired by them making concious choices to reject Him. Likewise, the presence of God is aquired by making concious choices to accept Him and His will.

 

During this life you make a choice, either accept God and be blessed or reject God and be judged both equally for eternity.

 

You see, God doesn't take out anything on anybody that they haven't asked for. When calamity happens, it is because of sin and the sin thatt you are doing and let into your life. Remember God has always been faithful to His creation, He has given us all a way out that you CHOOSE - which is a direct manifestation of His love. Even though His own creation turned their back on Him because of gift of free will, He still gives us all a chance and we are all without excuse.

 

Yea, an eternal punishment for a mistake made during an infinite lifespan with limited knowledge at our disposal.

 

A mistake made during an infinite lifespan with limiteed knowledge? What God are you talking about?

 

Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

[Lycorth]

So why would God want to forgive somebody who does not believe in Him?

 

Why would he not? Why is unbelief so evil?

 

You are thinking of it all wrong. God doesn't torment you. He simply isn't there to save you from your own sinful torment which is intensified because of the actual home of the dead who don't believe. God is not in direct control of your torture, He is with the ones who belive in Him in Heaven. Hell is the absence of God - which is what the person wanted to begin with - the absence of God. That was aquired by them making concious choices to reject Him. Likewise, the presence of God is aquired by making concious choices to accept Him and His will.

 

Sophistry and bullshit. You're good at regurgitating Xian doctrine but not so good at giving real reasons to believe in a place of eternal punishment for finite infractions. Your god created all things, hence your god created Hell, knowing millions would end up there. If he really wanted to save us, he'd erase sin and Hell, not let them exist for people to stumble into. That's like leaving an open hole in a childrens' playground, and saying the kids deserve to fall down the hole for not listening to the one one adult who mumbles incoherently to avoid the hole. But since your god doesn't exist, there's no open hole to worry about, now is there?

 

During this life you make a choice, either accept God and be blessed or reject God and be judged both equally for eternity.

 

You see, God doesn't take out anything on anybody that they haven't asked for. When calamity happens, it is because of sin and the sin thatt you are doing and let into your life. Remember God has always been faithful to His creation, He has given us all a way out that you CHOOSE - which is a direct manifestation of His love. Even though His own creation turned their back on Him because of gift of free will, He still gives us all a chance and we are all without excuse.

 

Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

 

That is not the choice as we see it. Your inability to understand comes from your insistence that the Xian perspective is the only one, ie, either believe in God or willingly choose torment. Now, you know that no rational person would choose, deliberately, eternal torment. If your god existed and was all-knowing and all-present and all-powerful, he'd show himself at least, show himself so we all would believe. And don't quote-mine Babble verses about how even if the prophets and Moses and whoever were to return from the dead we would still not believe. If they did, we would - but they don't, so we don't. Simple reasoning.

 

And I noticed you never remarked on any of my comments on the previous page. Too difficult to answer?

 

Anyway, unless you learn that the Xian outlook isn't the only outlook and that those who deny Xianity aren't doing so out of a desire to "sin" or be evil, you will never understand why we believe as we do.

[Brother Jeff]

O, ho ro bo mohaba na shaba baba na shibido bibido!!! I get it now too! O, the Spook of Kryasst who is also somehow magically Him! I feel His Power! Glory! Glory! Glory!