FlowerDemon Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 So I shared on my testimony in a different thread, that I recently left the church. Well after my church friend asked me if I was down for bible study on thursday, I came out to her and told her(in a FB group) that I wanted to read and interpret the bible on my own, cuz it's what I believe God wants me to do. I said that because I didn't want to tell them I'm not a Christian anymore...because then it would start a whole new conversation I don't want to have. She was like "come on just come with us, we can pray and study etc..we miss you." And I told her "Look it's not you guys but I don't want to go to church anymore. I want to connect to God on my own." And then she said this: I'm not going to harass you or guilt you but please know I'm really sad. You are welcome in church or bible study just the way you are, and I will miss you. I'm still around and will be praying for you to figure out this spiritual journey. Jesus loves you so much!!! After that, I was removed from the FB small group. a few days later she tried to ask me on FB how i'm doing. I didn't respond cuz I don't know how to just say that I don't believe anymore. The only reason I'm hesitant to do this is I know they will try to lure me back in, and ask me why I don't believe. A few more days later I got a letter in the mail, from some people at my church. Apparently they found out my address from one of the church people who gave me a ride home, and sent me a card saying theyre praying for me and miss me. I feel kind of bad because at one point, I considered them friends, and they felt very close to me. But as soon as I quit going to church, they got distant, but yet they want me back to the church again. I feel like I'm spitting in their face after all of the kind things they did for me, but at the same time, they have made no attempt to hang out with me outside of the church or anything church related. In my book a real friend would kick it with me, regardless of what I believe. I wasn't as close to them as I imagined. I felt close to them because we sang worship songs together, because we did kind things for each other, because we went to church events together. We shared some things about ourselves to each other but in all reality, I don't know these people at all. And now they sent me a letter inviting me to come back. What should I do? Should I write a reply letter of my honest answer? Should I remain silent and wait for them to leave me alone? Should I tell that church friend on FB the truth? I've never been in this situation and I don't want to make a move that will cause this situation to be worse. It sucks because they're acting like since I'm not coming to church, they're losing me as a friend. But it doesn't have to be that way. A real friend would understand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Have you asked them to hang out with you outside of church? They might feel like you are distant from them, even though you feel that way about them, because you haven't been going to church. Maybe they see it as you pulling away from your relationships with them. Ask them "Hey do you want to ____?" and see what they say. Sorry you're feeling like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerDemon Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 the problem is, if i try to hang out with them, i know they will ask me if i wanted to come back to church, or continue our small group study, etc. and i really dont want to explain myself but if i continue to not say anything and they keep trying to contact me, then i might have to tell the truth. I hate confrontation, it's ridiculous how far i will go to try to avoid dealing with people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 "I'm not going to harass you or guilt you but please know (I'm going to use emotional manipulation to get you to do what I want) WAAAAHHHH! You're making baby Jesus cry you selfish thing!." There, fixed it for her. Christians like to be in each other's personal business ALL THE TIME. Normal people don't do that. It gives a false feeling of closeness and "accountability" (how I hate that word, makes it seem like I owe them a certain behavior and thought pattern), but often results in gossip and creepy invasive behavior. Control control control, then manipulate emotions to maintain control. I eventually got a new circle of friends after leaving the church, and we very rarely go deep unless we've had a good dinner and go to one of their homes. Usually, we just share the normal life stuff, have some drinks, sing jazz, and enjoy being together. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Just treat them like a door to door salesman who wants to sell you a product you don't need. If you keep ignoring them they might go away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiyana Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 When I came out of the atheist closet last year, I was inundated with emails and requests to have coffee... for about two weeks. Six months later, no one was bugging me at all. A year and half later... they've all forgotten I exist. It won't last. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted September 15, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 15, 2015 I lost all my fundamentalist friends hon, know matter what I tried. Sometimes you just need to let go. The real true friends that might be among that group will show up for you. Continue to tell them that you and god are in 'privacy' mode together right now.That's what I did.They told me they would pray for my journey and eventually none of them came around anymore. It's sad. People like to hang out with people who have the same beliefs. Big (hug) as you go through this cause it can hurt like hell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I'm not sure what is best for you. Personally I wouldn't want to just dump or reject people I had once considered friends because of their beliefs - that's what I expected some Christians to do to me due to *my* loss of faith, but never something I'd do to them. So I wouldn't tell 'em to fuck off or cut all contact with them, but I would tell them I needed time and space to sort through some personal stuff. I'd also not feel obliged to explain anything or go out with them. Perhaps even get someone you can open up with comfortably to be the person to tell them you're not interested in going to church any more and that you'd like them to respect that. If you were at all close to any of them, then say you're happy to go to the cinema or meet for coffee so long as there's no talk about God and church. If they can't do that, if there's nothing else in common between you then I'd imagine the "friendship" will dwindle pretty quickly. Of my many old christian friends, I'm probably only real friends with about 3 of them now, and fb friends with a few more. I have however met and made friends with Christians *since* my deconversion and they're perfectly comfortable with atheist me as that's how they've always known me. It's a crappy time, I feel for you, but you'll get through it. x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I had the same experience, too, FlowerDemon. It's sad but true that most Christian friendships turn out to be ideological friendships. They burst instantly into bloom, like hot-house flowers, and once out of the environment, they wilt fast. I lost most of my Protestant friends after I became Catholic, actually. Later lost some more when I came out to them as gay. Many I just didn't make the effort to tell. They sort of just drifted away. But lots of your friends from school and university years will do that, even without religion being part of the mix. I think it's probably better to spill out the truth to a few. Those few will probably back off and the others will back off, too, after they get the news. Maybe a few will remain steadfast friends, as a few of mine did. Peace, f 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I feel like I'm spitting in their face after all of the kind things they did for me, but at the same time, they have made no attempt to hang out with me outside of the church or anything church related. In my book a real friend would kick it with me, regardless of what I believe. I don't believe you are spitting in their face. They find strength in numbers. It affects their faith when someone says, "You know, I think I'll do my own thing now." It gives them a little fear when someone breaks out of the group mold. Christian faith relies on people keeping each other 'programmed.' You certainly have the right to do whatever you want and do not really have to explain yourself any more than you have. If they dont want to just meet for coffee without having a bible study then no, they aren't your friends. I have a couple non-Christian friends who were friends before during and after my 10 years as a Christian. When I quit going to church, only one quasi-friend friend from the church emailed me a bit until I pissed him off with some anti-church talk and I havent talked to him since. My real friends are still my friends and they weren't churchies. lol. What should I do? Should I write a reply letter of my honest answer? If it would make YOU feel better, write a letter. You don't owe them anything. You owe it to yourself to forge your own path. ... Check out #9 in this list. Someone mentioned accountability. http://www.sharefaith.com/blog/2011/09/10-reasons-church-small-groups/ Accountability. Also known as 'guilt you into staying with the group.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 "I'm not going to harass you or guilt you but please know (I'm going to use emotional manipulation to get you to do what I want) WAAAAHHHH! You're making baby Jesus cry you selfish thing!." There, fixed it for her. Christians like to be in each other's personal business ALL THE TIME. Normal people don't do that. It gives a false feeling of closeness and "accountability" (how I hate that word, makes it seem like I owe them a certain behavior and thought pattern), but often results in gossip and creepy invasive behavior. Control control control, then manipulate emotions to maintain control. I eventually got a new circle of friends after leaving the church, and we very rarely go deep unless we've had a good dinner and go to one of their homes. Usually, we just share the normal life stuff, have some drinks, sing jazz, and enjoy being together. Right there in a nutshell ^^^ That is my church experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I wasn't as close to them as I imagined. I felt close to them because we sang worship songs together, because we did kind things for each other, because we went to church events together. We shared some things about ourselves to each other but in all reality, I don't know these people at all. And now they sent me a letter inviting me to come back. This was my experience, too, when I left the church. I had been very involved in my church for quite a long time as a sunday school teacher and a deacon and as a person that volunteered for almost anything needed. It felt like I really knew some of those people, but in the end, when I left, I realized I didn't know them at all and truly hadn't been honest about who I was. They never sent me a letter inviting me back, nor did they ever call me. Admittedly, that did make it easy for me. What should I do? Should I write a reply letter of my honest answer? Should I remain silent and wait for them to leave me alone? Should I tell that church friend on FB the truth? I've never been in this situation and I don't want to make a move that will cause this situation to be worse. It sucks because they're acting like since I'm not coming to church, they're losing me as a friend. But it doesn't have to be that way. A real friend would understand. My two cents: I wouldn't answer the letter. Any answer at all will make them think that you are still interested (even if you specifically say you are not interested). Unless you feel like you are genuine friends with the church friend on FB, I wouldn't bother telling the truth. She asked, "How are you doing?" My reply to that would be, "I'm doing fine!" I would add no other details, nor would I ask how she was doing. Like a lawyer would advise: just answer the question and quit talking. And as far as feeling like you're "spitting in their faces" if you leave them or ignore them, no you are not. They were nice to you when you were in the church; you were nice to them back. They did some nice things for you, I'm sure you did some nice things for some of them. Now you are done and moving on. You owe them nothing else. Good luck with your decision. The above is only my opinion, based on not actually knowing these people but only knowing the people I left in my church! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 1. And then she said this: I'm not going to harass you or guilt you but please know I'm really sad. 2. You are welcome in church or bible study just the way you are, 3. I'm still around and will be praying for you to figure out this spiritual journey. 4. Jesus loves you so much!!! 1. That is guilting you. 2. If that were true, she would not care if you were a christian or not. 3. In other words, she doesn't want to listen to what your reasons really are and apply her own critical thinking to the situation, she'll just pray for you and forget about it immediately afterwards. 4. If that is true, then tell her not to worry because if jesus loves you, he won't care what you believe or whether or not you ever come back to church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Don't do anything you're really not comfortable with - there's no reason to tell them any more than you have. Your emotional well being comes first and if trying to explain yourself is too stressful to think about right now, don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Listen, FD, you are not mistreating anyone by refusing to do what you don't want to do and not making commitments that you don't want to make. When they ask if you want to go back to church, say no and explain why. As a person who hates confrontations, I realize that they suck. But why lose friendships over your friends believing you don't want to be around them, when it's church you don't like? How will they know the difference? Let them know you still care about them, but church and religious activities won't be involved. And that it's nothing to do with them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerDemon Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Listen, FD, you are not mistreating anyone by refusing to do what you don't want to do and not making commitments that you don't want to make. When they ask if you want to go back to church, say no and explain why. As a person who hates confrontations, I realize that they suck. But why lose friendships over your friends believing you don't want to be around them, when it's church you don't like? How will they know the difference? Let them know you still care about them, but church and religious activities won't be involved. And that it's nothing to do with them. thank you everybody for the advice. definitely got a lot of mixed answers here, but i think i know what i will do now. there's this one lady i go to church with that has been very kind. she's been the most understanding. i think i'll let her know the truth, since she's someone i feel more comfortable talking to. I'll let the other person on FB know too, just so she knows the truth and isn't waiting on me to come back. Lilith you have a good point. Even though I'm unsure if they are actually my friends, my honesty to them will give them an opportunity to either accept me for who i am and still hang out, or try to ask me to come back to church and not accept me. This will reveal if they are actual friends or not. I'll definitely let them know that i still care but i just don't want to go to church anymore, but i respect them for their decision to go to church. and i'll leave it at that. i'll let u all know how it goes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerDemon Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Ok well both of the ppl responded. They were both understanding about it. the church friend on FB said she really doesn't want to lose me cuz she feels like we connected as friends, and if i wanted to ever go out for coffee with her or whatever then for me to let her know. the other lady i told..she was understanding too and was glad i got in touch with her. this is what makes leaving the church so hard. both of these ladies are good people and we got close like friends while i attended the church. and even though they're being understanding about it, i know that they are praying for me to come back to the church to continue where i left off on my path with the Christian God. And it's not like i'm here to please other people, but I can't help but feel a little bad. I mean the whole deconversion process is hard in itself. And then how I disappeared from the church unexpectedly. a lot of it had to do with my new job but even when i had time to go, i didn't go. and i had a hard time wanting to get on facebook or anything cuz i knew they would ask me where i've been. I was regularly attending once or twice a week, and out of the blue i just quit going. I played my own original songs for the church, and they loved them. I wrote a good collection of songs about Jesus that i cant get myself to sing anymore because i know it wouldn't be genuinely from my heart like they were when i wrote them. I know that for this whole church, my disappearance seriously let them down and they're sad i'm no longer attending. And on top of that, the deconversion process kind of sucks. Right now i'm at the point where I know I am not a Christian, but since I went back and forth with it for 7 years, i'm afraid that before i know it, something or someone will talk me into coming back and i'm gonna repeat the cycle all over again. The only reason I fear this is because every time I left the church, I told myself I would never be a Christian again. And every time I came back to the church, I told myself I would never leave Christianity again. Ugh this is so difficult. Thank you guys for the sound advice. It played a role in helping me decide how I approached these 2 church friends. i think i handled this situation fairly well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Don't lose the songs. Just change them to "ooh baby" if that's not too offensive to your inner artist. Also, keep focused on how silly so much of the bible stuff is and keep learning more. you'll not get sucked back in. You're right. It is difficult. Unfortunately for me, some of my favorite people from back in the day have just gotten more churchy as they've aged. I can't stand the silliness anymore so I had to let them go. They really were like family too so it hurts. But I couldn't go back to it now without gagging. So much judgement too. Gack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 You could change the lyrics in the songs from religious to secular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Yes, you could do what Jeff and sdelsdolray said. Even if you're not feeling the Jesus-love anymore, your passion for music is still "from the heart." Your call though. I'm glad it is working out with your two good friends from church. Good for you for speaking your mind kindly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 You did exactly what I was going to suggest: tell at least one or two so they can know it's not them as people, but the religion itself -- and let them spread the word. That was hard, I know, but it had to be done. They needed to know. I think the pestering will fade as they realize they personally did not offend or disappoint you, and they can move on. Not to be a downer, but I do want to warn you that these people, as kind as understanding as they are, are probably going to fall away over the next 6 months to a year. That gives you enough warning to find at least one or two other people with whom you can relate and create new friendships. We can't blame the christian friends from falling away. Part of it is simply practicalities: Regular church attendance and all those small groups and choir practices and all that -- those were built in meetups, so staying in touch was very convenient. They are going to continue with that busy-ness, and that schedule really interferes with their non-church life (such as you). They simply don't have the spare time for you. Sorry if that sounds harsh. They will also be continuing relationships with the other people still in the group(s), so they don't really "need" you. You, on the other hand, have probably just lost the vast majority of your friends and acquaintances by leaving, so you still kind of need a few of them -- but they don't have that urgency. It sounds cruel, I know, but that has been my experience and the witness of others here. Another part is theological: As christians we are taught that atheists are not to be associated with (unless you can convert them). It will be a disharmony for their brains that will become more uncomfortable for them than they will likely admit. Besides, if you saw the light and got out of the religion, that will create doubts for them in their own faith -- and they will feel it more than you will. Can't blame them for avoiding discomfort. Besides, if they are still involved in the church, what are you going to talk about? Old church gossip? Honestly, that is their main world, and I have found that they tend to revert back to talking about people I used to know (who are no longer friends since I left, thanks for reminding me) or about church events they are working on and looking forward to. For me, it just became awkward, and I tired of trying to find other things to talk about in common. You mentioned that you have left and returned before. That is pretty normal, I think. Ask yourself if it has to do with the built-in community. It's easy to waltz in and join a couple groups, or the choir or praise band, and instantly have "friends" and places to go and things to do. You may have to search your soul and decide if that is your true need, and consider actively looking for another kind of community to fill that void. At first I thought that was a need for me too, but I eventually realized I am happy in my own little world with my nuclear family and our handful of real friends. You will figure out what works for you. For me, the first year, I had about 5 people who "kind of" kept in contact with me. A few years later, I'm down to one (and she is about to fade too, just because I realize we really just don't have that much in common). I am happy to admit that I have learned a good hard lesson, however. Church friends are not really friends. I see now who has been there for me when my little brother died last year, when a pipe burst under my house this past spring, and when good big things have happened too. The handful of friends I have now are supportive of my struggles and not jealous of my successes -- more than I can ever remember from any of my old church "friends." I don't worry about gossip or judgment or jealousy with any of them. Church membership makes us feel like we are part of a family and have lots of friends, but it's not real, I'm here to tell you. In reality, one or two good friends is better than wide circle of nobodies. As if the emotional and spiritual part of deconverting isn't hard enough, huh? Plus we get to start over with our social lives. Fun times. (sarcasm) I assure you that the journey is worth this pain. You will figure out your own self. And you will figure out your friends. It sucks for a while, but it does get better -- dare I say -- it becomes rewarding. Keep sharing and asking questions here. We all want to help. If any of our been-there-done-that struggle helps you or anyone else, it's worthwhile for all of us. Peace to you on your journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerDemon Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 The thing about the songs is....the entire songs are Jesus related. I would have to come up with completely new lyrics to go with the strumming pattern in order to do that(I will definitely try it) . I couldn't just change the word Jesus to something else. Those songs remind me of when i went to church and I believed that God gave me my talent to share the message of the gospel with the world. That's what makes it so hard. Ill still try it though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Hey FlowerDemon, maybe you should write new songs. I've got no music talent but I do enjoy listening. When I was a fundie I bought into the idea that rock music was Satanic. So I denied myself for decades. Upon deconverting I started listening to the classic rock music of my youth and discovered - wow these old rockers are not Satanic after all. The music is very good. I forced myself to miss out on a lot of good times. So forge your own path; a new path. The sky is the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 In all honesty - come the day that I am in a position vis-a-vis Mrs E to walk away from the Gospel Hall, I will do my very best to make sure that I have as little contact as possible with members thereof. I have practically no contact with them now, so any attempt to be sociable will, inevitably, be linked to an attempt (however polite or disguised) to pressurize and evangelize, and will be rebuffed with a degree of forcefulness and even rudeness directly proportionate to their insistence. I care little about being polite to people with whom I want to sever links. I want to sever links with any who want to live my life and decide my conscience for me. I would be amazed if you have any meaningful contact with these people 12 months hence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerDemon Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 i will definitely write new songs, ive already been doing that so i'll keep doing that. i'll try to remember that those songs tell a story of a time where i had faith in the Christian God...and they dont have to be a negative memory. it wasn't all a bad experience. honestly, most of it was, but throughout the whole journey, i learned a lot about myself, about christianity, about a lot of things...and it was a journey i dont regret taking. but now i must move on and focus on the present. i agree...these people probably will quit talking to me entirely when they come to realize that i will never come back to the church. it sucks how it has to be that way, but if someone wants to be my friend they must be ok with where i stand spiritually/religiously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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