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"art Of It Has The Supremely Convincing Tone Of Primary Art"

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Sorry for the unusually long Topic Title and Topic Description.

 

A very long time ago (in this same basic gallery, though far far away now) - I was trying to find the location where I had read something written by Tolkien

 

Below, I copied from: A Potion too Strong?: Challenges in Translating the Religious Significance of Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings to

....

The Birth of Christ is the eucatastrophe of Man’s history. The Resurrection is the eucatastrophe of the story of the Incarnation. ... There is no tale ever told that men would rather find was true, and none which so many skeptical men have accepted as true on its own merits. For the Art of it has the supremely convincing tone of Primary Art, that is, of Creation. To reject it leads either to sadness or to wrath.(12)

...

(12) Tolkien, "On Fairy Stories,"72.

(I added the bold for emphasis)

 

I am not really feeling up to saying exactly why this is important to me just now (but I just feel like posting it anyway).

 

Maybe later I will feel up to elaborating.

 

-Dennis

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Interesting quote (and welcome back, by the way). I've thought about this recently as well. For whatever reason, the mythology or the archetypes or whatever it is concerning the christian story or message, it seems to be intrinsically appealing to human nature. Not only has it been successful in its own right, but the fact that there are striking similarities between it and other ancient mythologies and religions (well documented on this site and elsewhere) supports this as well. Although I'm not convinced that 'sadness or wrath' inherently follow from its rejection.

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I have never noticed any less sadness or wrathfulness in people who did accept it, and I believe their are studies that would back me up. Now granted, I am a huge LOTR fan, but the remark Tolkein makes here is typical of someone who is rationalizing their own beliefs.

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Interesting quote (and welcome back, by the way). I've thought about this recently as well. For whatever reason, the mythology or the archetypes or whatever it is concerning the christian story or message, it seems to be intrinsically appealing to human nature. Not only has it been successful in its own right, but the fact that there are striking similarities between it and other ancient mythologies and religions (well documented on this site and elsewhere) supports this as well. Although I'm not convinced that 'sadness or wrath' inherently follow from its rejection.

I agree, but I'm not familiar with any other suffering that related to mankind in such a way. It plays on the image of self that we come to identify with. That is one of suffering in the world. The sad thing is is that it is self-fed. The image relates so well because we think that we suffer, but we suffer because we identify with this image. I may not be making any sense...it's hard to say what I am trying to say. Maybe it's more like self-perpetuating???

 

I think it has been viewed wrong, IMO. The suffering portrayed by Jesus needs to be looked at in a manner that is consistent with what I think he meant when he said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do." I think he was speaking to the fact that the ones that crucified him did not know what they did because they were not able to see beyond their own egos, or the understanding that they were separate or dualism. If we can realize that this suffering is caused by this thinking, then we would no longer kill or harm others because we are not separate.

 

This image should not be looked at as those other people that killed Jesus, or they were just scums of the earth and should go to hell. That defeats the entire essence of the myth, IMO.

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... Not only has it been successful in its own right, but the fact that there are striking similarities between it and other ancient mythologies and religions (well documented on this site and elsewhere) supports this as well. ..

Hi Dio, (thanks for the comments - and it is good to be back - in some way that I don't really understand just now.)

 

Yeah, now that you have mentioned the "striking similarities", I must say that has also been on my mind recently as well.

 

Funny, but (to my way of thinking) when I used to read things on this site where folks seemed to be thinking they were adding to the skeptic's case by mentioning similarities of other cultural myths to some of the big themes found in the Bible, I felt the opposite way - as if something so basic to human inner feelings/needs would be more likely to be true if it were found (in varying degrees of accuracy as far as historical/scientific verification) in many religious and/or cultural myths/stories.

 

-Dennis

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Although I'm not convinced that 'sadness or wrath' inherently follow from its rejection.

 

C'mon, Dio. You should know that part comes during the penalty phase. The giant "bend over and grab your ankles" in the sky.

 

Until then, ditching religion is liberating, freeing, and finding happiness in knowing that you have been true to yourself.

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If Frodo had died on the cross, I would believe. :mellow:

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