SkepticOfBible Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Much more than I got on the Christianforum which does not easily welcome open questions (although again I found there are some on there that are sympathetic with my view) We all thank you for the compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Still have a sense of my own spirituality (whatever that is) Wanting to find some spiritual truth but strip out the religious trimmings (any religion) Bingo. This is why I am atheist (except I would substitute the word "truth" used above, with the word "meaning"). First there is no genuinely compelling reason to accept one religious system over another as some sort of objective truth. Believing in a god system is really nothing more than a vehicle for an individual pursuing spiritual meaning in their lives. The problem with traditional Christianity as an institution is that it sets itself up as the only vehicle for this pursuit. This is a political position for maintaining power and control over individuals, and in my opinion works counter towards the promotion of meaningful spirituality in someone’s life. They put "God" or "meaning" in a Box. That is its greatest detriment. BTW Rosa, welcome. I hope you don't feel that the label atheist conjures up all sorts of images of spiteful godlessness. That's just a demonization created by the Church to keep the masses in check from pursuing ideas outside their control. It has zero basis in reality. I'm anything but that sort of person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Mystica Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Have you ever watched Family Guy? they take on Jesus and christians full on, and my christian fundy friends love it. I don't watch that show, no. I've seen bits of it, and discovered that it had too much gross out humour for my liking. I'm extremely sensitive to that kind of humour (I can't even watch the Itchy and Scratchy segments on "The Simpsons"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I guess it really depends on the nature of the "slam". For instance, the tv show "The Simpsons" includes many lines that border on blasphemy, and yeah, some of those are funny. "Blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by superstition upon common sense. Whoever investigates a religion as he would any department of science is called a blasphemer. Whoever contradicts a priest; whoever has the impudence to use his own reason; whoever is brave enough to express his honest thought, is a blasphemer. When the missionary speaks slightingly of the wooden god of a savage, the savage regards him as a blasphemer. To laugh at the pretensions of Mohammed in Constantinople is blasphemy. To say in St. Peter's that Mohammed was a prophet of God is blasphemy. There was a time when to acknowledge the divinity of Christ in Jerusalem was blasphemy. To deny his divinity is now blasphemy in New York."--Robert G. Ingersoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Mystica Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 BTW Rosa, welcome. I hope you don't feel that the label atheist conjures up all sorts of images of spiteful godlessness. That's just a demonization created by the Church to keep the masses in check from pursuing ideas outside their control. It has zero basis in reality. I'm anything but that sort of person. I don't see you as "spitefully godless" or anything like that. I have met atheists which are nothing but kind and generous. So yeah, I have a hard time seeing them as "demonized". For me, I just can't envision a world w/o a deity in it. I have a hard time believing that material things like the universe were uncaused. So the first cause argument alone is enough to make me believe there is a Creator. I know that many people challenge that belief with the argument, "What caused God?" My answer to that question is that a divine being does not need a cause, b/c the divine is (in my mind) fundamentally different from the material). I always felt that the "first cause" needed to have a fundamentally different quality from all the material objects that exist, and for me, a deity fills the bill quite nicely. What First Cause does *not* answer, for me, is my questions about the nature of the Creator. Or even if there's more than one God (though due to upbringing, I tend to lean towards monotheism). Can I prove my stance? Of course not. No one can. I just feel it's more logical for the world to have an outside cause, that's all. Rosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I guess it really depends on the nature of the "slam". For instance, the tv show "The Simpsons" includes many lines that border on blasphemy, and yeah, some of those are funny. "Blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by superstition upon common sense. Whoever investigates a religion as he would any department of science is called a blasphemer. Whoever contradicts a priest; whoever has the impudence to use his own reason; whoever is brave enough to express his honest thought, is a blasphemer. When the missionary speaks slightingly of the wooden god of a savage, the savage regards him as a blasphemer. To laugh at the pretensions of Mohammed in Constantinople is blasphemy. To say in St. Peter's that Mohammed was a prophet of God is blasphemy. There was a time when to acknowledge the divinity of Christ in Jerusalem was blasphemy. To deny his divinity is now blasphemy in New York."--Robert G. Ingersoll There's also this from Ingersoll: "This crime called blasphemy was invented by priests for the purpose of defending doctrines not able to take care of themselves." .........."An Interview on Chief Justice Comegys", Brooklyn Eagle, 1881 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I'm extremely sensitive to that kind of humour (I can't even watch the Itchy and Scratchy segments on "The Simpsons"). lol, you are not the first person to say that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 What First Cause does *not* answer, for me, is my questions about the nature of the Creator. Or even if there's more than one God (though due to upbringing, I tend to lean towards monotheism). Can I prove my stance? Of course not. No one can. I just feel it's more logical for the world to have an outside cause, that's all. Rosa I appreciate your point of view, and I have no desire to persuade you otherwise. I'm glad you don't buy the rhetoric that labels and demonizes people. That's been one of my biggest complaints about religion is that fostering those sorts of attitudes and actually promotes arrogance and judging of others. That is the exact opposite of what a spiritual life should be. How can we feel genuine love towards others when our doctrines we espouse are so seperatist in nature? Your ideal view of Creation is I can easily relate to. I often find myself in absoulte awe of the specitcal of Creation. When I was in the Christian church my favorite passage was Psalm 19: The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork, day unto day utterth speech and not unto night showeth knowledge, there is no place nor language where their voice is not heard..." (quoting from memory, so there might be a couple misplaced words there). It was actually that idea of viewing Creation as the act of a creator that kept me from doing what I ulitmately needed to do to break away from any and all prescribed notions of God, and in doing so, I was finally free to explore meaning without feeling like I had to include any unresolved ideas about a personal God. What happened was that I finally saw that everything was in fact created, but from the "bottom up", through the "tinkering" of natural causes, and not from the "top down" by a thinking rational Designer. That latter idea caused a whole host of problems in making the pieces fit that idea of a rational God/Creator, whereas seeing that everything could be accomplished through natural causes alone, all the pieces problems began to make sense in light of this. (Just a little personal history there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Bingo. This is why I am atheist (except I would substitute the word "truth" used above, with the word "meaning") I accept that Antlerman, and I'll (gladly) take it as a correction. Truth suggest one way only but meaning widens the appeal greatly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hi sawitch! You know, you remind me a lot of me. Currently, I am also questioning the validity of my faith. And yet, I really don't like it when people go around slamming religions. Yes, this also goes for Christians who do this. If you ever wanna talk, I'm here for ya. And for any CFers who are wondering, I post on that forum by the same name I have there. Rosa Hi Rosa, I'm Cat from CF. I think we've met. I think and hope you'll find this place helpful in your questioning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 And for any CFers who are wondering, I post on that forum by the same name I have there. Rosa Hey Rosa...It's LibertyChic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Mystica Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hi Rosa, I'm Cat from CF. I think we've met. I think and hope you'll find this place helpful in your questioning... Hi Cat! Yes, we have indeed met. I actually discovered your posts a week before I joined here. Very nice to see you around! Hey Rosa...It's LibertyChic. Heya, Libby! I actually knew this was you! Nice to see you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I've been searching the net looking for views from people who are ex-christians because I'm not sure where I stand anymore. What I keep finding is that the views expressed are full of negative attitudes such as bitterness, sarcasm and are often downright insulting to anyone who dares to challenge. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on you miserable worm! Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries. Now go away before I taunt you a scond time. ...oh wait,...I see, ... nevermind. Welcome aboard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 If I may ask, why do you think that religions "suck"? While subjectively they may offer some form of positive influence on someone's life and subjective truth, objective truth seems to be lacking. I contend that while there may be specific statements which are truthful (ie - no killins), the all-encompassing idea that a God exists and that he wishes these specific criteria for ones existence (ie - lovin jesus) in order to attain peace and prosperity in the next life is something close to, but not quite bullshit. For instance, we've been having a discussion with a certain character who claims that since certain historical events in the bible have been verified that means that all the bible is 100% true. Obviously there is a fallacy in his thinking, but at least he had the honesty to admit that the bible is not and cannot be verified to be true. As I said in my discussion with him, only a fool absolutely believes in something that hasn't been verified absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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