EdwardAbbey Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 When are believers going to realize that prayer is a total waste of time even IF God does exist? Even if he hears and actually listens to millions of prayers on a daily basis, it would be impossible for him to answer any prayers at all. That must be extremely frustrating for such an alleged all-powerful being don’t you think? With such a Deity it’s impossible for him to even begin to answer one single prayer uttered by any human being. If God is all-knowing how can anybody’s prayers be answered by such an entity? He certainly cannot be all-powerful because if He was he would be able to alter the future that he has already foreseen and set in place so that He could answer prayers. So what makes believers think God is going to change the future just because of prayer? Some might be asking what is the real purpose of this thread? Simple. It’s to prove from this simple observation that anything described as both omnipotent and omniscient is an impossibility and cannot literally and undeniably exist by any rational or objective means whatsoever. Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 One of my philosophy of religion text essays had an essay by a Christian that didn't think God answers prayer or communicates with humans during prayer, but that we should still pray because it fosters a relationship with God. In other words, we need prayer and we need to comtemplate what goes on in our lives... but God doesn't need it. It was an interesting POV... but I don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardAbbey Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 One of my philosophy of religion text essays had an essay by a Christian that didn't think God answers prayer or communicates with humans during prayer, but that we should still pray because it fosters a relationship with God. In other words, we need prayer and we need to comtemplate what goes on in our lives... but God doesn't need it. It was an interesting POV... but I don't buy it. Just think if you were such a God yourself who couls listen to millions of prayers day after day but be totally incapable of answering any of them. You would probably commit suicide. Think of all those prayers you couldn't answer during the hurricanes of 2005 and you were totally powerless to stop any of them from destroying the lives of thousands. what a frustrating feeling that would be don't you think? Such a God is impossible. There isn't any such being that exists. We're all alone in the universe and all we have is the human race to depend on for help. In short, there is no God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 it isnt a total waste of time it relieves stress and relaxes you kinda like meditation. talking to yourself is good for you try it. maybe theirs a god maybe their isnt. maybe it answers prayers maybe it dont. maybe. maybe maybe all i can say on that. but the first 3 sentences i can say for sure helps me get rid of stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 The main benefit I got out of prayer was a focusing of my thoughts. So I can't trash prayer entirely. But I no longer believe any kind of deity is involved in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 it isnt a total waste of time it relieves stress and relaxes you kinda like meditation. talking to yourself is good for you try it. maybe theirs a god maybe their isnt. maybe it answers prayers maybe it dont. maybe. maybe maybe all i can say on that. but the first 3 sentences i can say for sure helps me get rid of stress. Yes, I agree with you. It is a way to clear the mind and to allow 'good' energy to flow through the body and has a way of causing belief in oneself. Then, one can go out and make the prayer happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasemonkey Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I could come up with a million reasons why prayer is ineffective, but the fact of the matter is that as long as it makes the person praying feel a little better (or maybe feel a little more in control of a situation that feels uncontrollable) then it's hardly a waste of time. Whether it works or not is kind of pointless, whether you get some psychological benefit from it is the only thing that really matters. I haven't prayed in years personally, but that doesn't mean I knock it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmccaskill Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 When are believers going to realize that prayer is a total waste of time even IF God does exist? When they realize that an omnipotent, omniscient being cannot coexist with free will. But I wouldn't hold my breath. I love it when something good happens in a Christian's life, it is always the result of God/Jesus answering prayer(s). But when something bad happens it is either God's plan, Satan caused it or price for man sinning. I've never been able to find a consistent answer to this particular issue. Gee, Christians who can't agree on their doctrine? Never heard of such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 When are believers going to realize that prayer is a total waste of time even IF God does exist? When they realize that an omnipotent, omniscient being cannot coexist with free will. But I wouldn't hold my breath. I love it when something good happens in a Christian's life, it is always the result of God/Jesus answering prayer(s). But when something bad happens it is either God's plan, Satan caused it or price for man sinning. I've never been able to find a consistent answer to this particular issue. Gee, Christians who can't agree on their doctrine? Never heard of such a thing. I think that when they realize that god is not something that is separate from everything, then they will realize that the power of prayer is not to grant wishes, but to allow one to realize their own potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 When are believers going to realize that prayer is a total waste of time even IF God does exist? Even if he hears and actually listens to millions of prayers on a daily basis, it would be impossible for him to answer any prayers at all. That must be extremely frustrating for such an alleged all-powerful being don’t you think? Well all those prayers are limited to things that He provides for us which is basically what is within His will for our lives. And prayer is never a waste of time, it always gets you closer in ones relationship with Christ. He certainly cannot be all-powerful because if He was he would be able to alter the future that he has already foreseen and set in place so that He could answer prayers. So what makes believers think God is going to change the future just because of prayer? I don't get it, if God already knows the outcome and everything is done by His decree or in accordance to His will in the ultimate sense, why would He need to alter future? Also, the prayers answer could be "no" or "wait", our prayers are only answered according to His will. Some precious gifts are acheived by prayer as it states quite literally in the Bible. James 1:5 proclaims, “If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.” Also, to note, many things can hold back effective prayer. Things that we deal with constantly and may not even notic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bdp Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 The whole concept/construct of 'what god wants' fucked me up so bad for so long - there is nothing wrong with just going out and pursuing the things that interest you; I wish I had, I might have a job I actually like doing something I enjoy and might have gotten laid, like, twenty years ago instead of being 43 and still waiting. I agree that the focus and calming aspects of 'prayer' are fine, but to order one's whole life on the idea that a 'god' is going to tell you anything, or give you anything, is pure foolishness. bdp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 James 1:5 proclaims, “If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.” Also, to note, many things can hold back effective prayer. Things that we deal with constantly and may not even notic. Ah, bullshit. Let's see someone grow an amputee's limbs back with prayer - then we'll talk. Prayer is fine if you realize it for what it is - meditation. Nothing wrong with that. But if you start thinking prayer actually does something, then it becomes an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 The whole concept/construct of 'what god wants' fucked me up so bad for so long - there is nothing wrong with just going out and pursuing the things that interest you; I wish I had, I might have a job I actually like doing something I enjoy and might have gotten laid, like, twenty years ago instead of being 43 and still waiting. I agree that the focus and calming aspects of 'prayer' are fine, but to order one's whole life on the idea that a 'god' is going to tell you anything, or give you anything, is pure foolishness. bdp For petes sake notoby is saying DO NOT HAVE FUN. I never said that God would give you anything or that He was going to tell you anything. Prayer is fine if you realize it for what it is - meditation. Nothing wrong with that. But if you start thinking prayer actually does something, then it becomes an excuse. No prayer is to ask for forgiveness from Christ and to bring your problems and to talk with God through Christ. Meditating is a bit different than prayer although prayer can be meditation. "I meditate on your precepts and consider your ways." (Ps 119:15) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 The whole concept/construct of 'what god wants' fucked me up so bad for so long - there is nothing wrong with just going out and pursuing the things that interest you; I wish I had, I might have a job I actually like doing something I enjoy and might have gotten laid, like, twenty years ago instead of being 43 and still waiting. I agree that the focus and calming aspects of 'prayer' are fine, but to order one's whole life on the idea that a 'god' is going to tell you anything, or give you anything, is pure foolishness. bdp For petes sake notoby is saying DO NOT HAVE FUN. I never said that God would give you anything or that He was going to tell you anything. Prayer is fine if you realize it for what it is - meditation. Nothing wrong with that. But if you start thinking prayer actually does something, then it becomes an excuse. No prayer is to ask for forgiveness from Christ and to bring your problems and to talk with God through Christ. Meditating is a bit different than prayer although prayer can be meditation. "I meditate on your precepts and consider your ways." (Ps 119:15) Christianity discourages meditating, they say if your not meditating on Gawd, it is a sin. I understand what you are going through, you don't realize you are mentally ill. Anyone who goes to change other peoples beliefs is an asshole and christians are mentally ill anyway so boy your pretty fucked up. Not speaking to any liberal christians here, just the fundies. peace, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 No prayer is to ask for forgiveness from Christ and to bring your problems and to talk with God through Christ. Meditating is a bit different than prayer although prayer can be meditation. I'm sorry sub, but Christianity isn't the inventor of prayers. They hold no trademark on it. They only share in it. Can you at least peak outside of your box a little bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bdp Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Some precious gifts are acheived by prayer as it states quite literally in the Bible. James 1:5 proclaims, “If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.” I never said that God would give you anything or that He was going to tell you anything. ...you were saying..? And I didn't say anything about 'fun.' bdp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffXL Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Well all those prayers are limited to things that He provides for us which is basically what is within His will for our lives. And prayer is never a waste of time, it always gets you closer in ones relationship with Christ [....] Also, to note, many things can hold back effective prayer. Things that we deal with constantly and may not even notic. That is the fun thing about religion: You can make up any bullshit you want. Jesus says nothing about "in accordance with God's will." He promises that if you ask anything in his name (and variants thereof), you will get it. How's that workin' for you, by the way? Is Jesus the Genie granting your wishes as he promised? (Here are the relevant passages: Matthew 7:7-8 ; 18:19-20 ; 21:21-22 ; Mark 11:24-25 ; Luke 11:9-13 ; John 14:13-14 ; 15:7, 16 ; 16:23-24.) Looks like Jesus lied. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts