Does Fear=faith?

[Amanda]

The question I ask is this: is this person with a fear based-belief still a Christian? Is the fact that they are gripped by fear indicative of the fact that they still believe it, on some level? Or is it just a commonly-felt emotion that accompanies a deconversion from Christianity?

 

I'm very interested in hearing the answers to this question. As for myself, I'm not completely decided. I'm inclined to say that fear=fear, not faith. But I also acknowledge that the presence of a fear-based belief means that the one who experiences it continues to be affected by their religious system, at least on some level.

 

What do you think?

Hello Rosa Mystica! IMHO, I think the person was never a Christian from the beginning! Blind faith is no faith at all, or none to speak of intelligently. As my wise friend SAA said, the original teachings never said there was an eternal hell. Get real! Whoever made that up as things went along, way past the first century... should be the disciple they worship! *sigh* Then again, as SAA also said...

 

I'm a heretic!

 

The word hell is just for a state of mind! The war between heaven and hell is within us. People who believe/fear that hell is a place we go to when we die are in hell right now... living in fear! The torment, the natural repercussions of an inappropriate behavior is the fire... the part that is working at purifying the garbage out of our life. Separating the wheat and the tares is NOT you're wheat and I'm tares, it is separating the wheat and the tares from within each and every one of us! The word damnation just means judgement. Damnation defined in the NT here.

Brimstone was just another part of the purifying process, defined in the NT here.

 

Do you clean/purify something before you throw it away for ever and ever? A person who believes in eternal hell and/or fear was never a true follower of Christ from the beginning, IMHO. Heaven and hell are just states of consciousness, and these spiritual teachers are presenting a path to have peace, joy, and love in your life TODAY... while we are ALIVE on the earth. Now you know part of why I'm known as a heretic/apostate!

 

NBBTB, thanks for that insight of the fear by Eve. I thought the allegory was that Eve didn't feel she was good enough... because she wasn't like God! However, with your insight... the revelation is she FEARED she wasn't good enough, and thought she needed to be better than who she was... which ironically was already the image of God. We too are gods. And I think you're right... all other falls in our lives are probably out of fear too!

[jrmarlin]

I have only read the title to make this response so I am may have more to add later. However, xianity, I believe in a lot of ways has its origins in fear. Fear of being alone. Fear of not being loved. Fear of making bad decisions. Fear of taking any responsible for the repercussions and consequences of said decisions and actions.

 

God and Satan are used as excuses and scapegoats for humanity. God nor Satan has anything to do with what people choose or not choose to do. It is one thing to feel grateful for the fruits of your efforts but it is an entirely different situation when a person feels indebted to anyone other than themselves for what they have or have not in their lives.

 

People make choices - whether they are conscious of them or not. The choice to be happy. The choice to be sad. The choice to succeed and the fail in life. The choice to do a nothing - not making choices at all. This concept is often a very hard pill for xians to swallow because they want to believe there is a force that is making things happen...not only dodging responsibility but just rewards and feelings of satisfaction having known that they accomplished things they wanted to do.

 

In my opinion, this is an extremely sad existence to not take credit for the good, the bad and the ugly in one's life. It also explains why a lot of xians feel they can get away with bad things because they feel they have some Deity Exemption from any and everything they do, say, act, feel or have in their lives.

 

Xianity being a fear-based religion - a merit system of major proportions - a good/bad pendulum that goes back in forth like a grandfather clock is just nuts. It is what it is. God / Satan have nothing to do with either way the pendulum swings. Ultimately it's each person's thoughts and intent as to whether or not they get things they want out of life. Anyone who believes God hands them things and Satan tempts them is just nuttier than a shithouse rat. Sorry if that offends but its true.

 

It all boils down to YOU as an individual. Faith in yourself. Knowing yourself. And having trust in yourself. Your drive, your thoughts, your intent, your determinations that make YOU, You. This escapism and irresponsibility is just absolutely the biggest crutch (cult) ever created. And it was a sad, sad day in the history of humanity when it was!

 

Seeking others' approval -- even God's -- is merely a way to dodge a responsibility of highest importance. The responsibility you have to yourself. The only person you should be responsible for making your world a better place to be is yourself. No one and nothing else can fulfill that very hard task.

[jrmarlin]

Well, suppose there is actually a God, and you believe it, then flip the question around.

 

What do you think the Christian God would do with such a fearful person? Do they actually "love" God, or are they merely in it for self preservation? Isn't "perfect love" supposed to cast out all fear? To me such a fear seems irrational in terms of the Christian salvation doctrine, because a decision born out of such fear is selfish and egocentric by nature - because you only "worship" God to save your own but. This is probably the reason why Christians makes such pathetic moral subjects. They only way they can drone out the fear of punishment when letting God down, is to take their "sins" and struggles underground. Net result; walking, talking hypocrites for God.

 

Don't know how thrilled the Christian God can be with such subjects!

 

But that's hypothetically speaking of course.

 

Very well said. Hypocrites of God. Possibly Xians make these bad decisions because they are taught as long as they seek forgiveness from God, they are immuned to the Karmic Backlash of their actions.

 

This is still a fear based system which believes God is some pissed off dude on the mount with an abucus in one hand - keeping track of sins of the masses.

 

Another thing, if God really wanted warriors on God's behalf, why would God pick the silliest and ignorant to do God's bidding? Why does it always seem to be the people who are not successful materially, physically that are the ones sclupping to church to pay homage to God? The downtrodden are always the ones that win the publisher's clearing house -- the lottery...because those are the fools that play the lottery everyday rather than paying their bills -- and sending off for magazines they never read. It is like someone said, "Be a Xian and lose your mind...be ignorant of EVERYTHING the rest of your natural life."

 

Furthermore, if being an xian is so wonderful and glorious -- why are so many xians responsible for violence, protests etc? And why are most xians very, very unhappy people?

 

Looking on these things, I can't imagine why any person would look at it and say, "Hell, yeah, I wanna be a Xian!"

 

 

folks revising Xianity and taking out the Hell doctrine is just fine with me -

 

Early believers didn't believe though in eternal torture, eternal torture was I believe the result of higher ups in the church making false interpretations and/or adding it in to make it appear horrible. The first Christians were gnostic and more in line with the teachings of Paul. None of Pauls epistles warn nor speak of eternal torture, that was another area I discovered from my study of hell, while still a Christian.

 

Though the Xianity you posit (and others believe in) would be far more preferable to the current version, fear will still be the key drive behind faith in a savior. Even so, I hope those more liberal Xian sects grow in popularity and overshadow their hellfire-and-brimstone counterparts.

 

I totally am in agreement with you. :-) IT is still based on fear, fear of not living forever.

 

This eternal torture is not something that God created -- this is something man created. It is not God's forgiveness that must be sought -- it's forgiving oneself!

 

This image of God being angry, vengeful and the decider of sin is just a mythological character. Forgiveness is purely man-based and manmade. Not of any entity or supreme power.