Castiel233 Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 I was in a supermarket the other day. A supermarket in "The Twilight Zone". Security guard just kept staring and staring at me, basically (I think) because he was creepy. Now as a guy, I found his behaviour strange and unsettling. How do women cope with being stared out, whistled at and harassed when going about their daily live's.
duderonomy Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 It happens to me too, and I'm a guy. I can't answer for the women, but it makes me feel cheap and it's very demeaning when women look me over or flirt. Hell, I've been fondled in public more than once by some crazed female, I've been whistled at and sexually harassed at work. I'm not kidding either, that's all true. I'd be much more comfortable in my skin if women saw me as ugly and undesirable. I'd be so much happier knowing that their attraction to me at first was more than just physical. 2
Castiel233 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Posted December 16, 2015 Just to stress my OP was sincere, I really don't know how women do stand it, it must be horrible being leered and stared at. Not quite the same thing, but the late English actor, Kenneth Williams would write in his diary of his despair of being stared at and called out to when in public. He drove him spare. As he was famous, I guess one could say it went with the job, but it still must be awful to live with.
florduh Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 After my $75 hairstyle, new miniskirt, 6" heels and an hour's worth of makeup, I would hope to hell people would look at me!!!
yunea Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 It is pretty bad when it's someone you couldn't possibly like back. Such as, someone old enough to be your dad or granddad, or someone who's blindingly drunk. Or someone wearing a wedding ring, wtf. I don't have a problem with attractive/friendly people my age giving me a smile and then continuing to mind their own business. In my country we don't get whistled at or cat called on the streets though, unless it's weekend night. (Or I don't at least - maybe it's just me? Oh well.) Just saying I can't speak for women from cultures where there is less consideration for personal space but I can imagine it gets bothersome, and as a result, smaller things matter more as well.
duderonomy Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 Castiel, I figured your OP was sincere. All that stuff I said in the first paragraph? That's all true, although it's been many years since my heyday. The second paragraph? yeah, that was kind of sarcastic. Nowadays I'm more like the drunken granddad Yunea mentioned. Oh, and ladies? Sometimes when the older guys are checking you out they aren't undressing you with their eyes. Sometimes they are reminiscing about the good old days. 1
Fweethawt Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 Oh, and ladies? Sometimes when the older guys are checking you out they aren't undressing you with their eyes. Sometimes they are reminiscing about the good old days. Yep. More often than not, I find myself looking at (ogling by some people's opinions) just thinking, 'Wow! She really is beautiful.' or, in most cases, a "cutie". If that pisses anyone off, I don't know what to tell you.
Castiel233 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Posted December 16, 2015 I would say the sinister staring from guys at women must be uncomfortable stuff . And the casual way women are discussed behind their backs is a poor , poor show. 1
Fweethawt Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 Yes, keep the thread focused... Keep it legit. There's only one side to this so by golly we're gonna stick to it!
duderonomy Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 I would say the sinister staring from guys at women must be uncomfortable stuff . And the casual way women are discussed behind their backs is a poor , poor show. Agreed, it can be uncomfortable for anyone. It sometimes was for me. But I wonder if you are privy to how some women talk about men's asses and if it looks like they have a pants full or not. They aren't all sugar and spice and everything nice by a long shot.
dichotomy Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 I don't tend to notice. I think possibly because I don't view myself as attractive so assume people don't look at me. There's a couple of guys I know (in an acquaintance setting not proper friends) who I've realised flirt with me, but in a manner that is nice and I am comfortable flirting back so it's all good. I don't think I've ever been whistled at in years! But there is one guy of a similar-ish age to myself who works in a shop locally and he *definitely* looks at me in a pervy, sleezy way and that is horrible, to the point that I avoid going in there unless I absolutely have to. It must be particularly bad because like I say, I don't normally notice these things. I don't think age matters too much, it's more the way in which something is done. One of my friend's dads (who'll be in his late 60s/70s now) has always had flattery and compliments, tone, expression and physical contact perfectly mastered so no matter how he interacted with women it always seemed to make them feel good rather than oggled at. Whereas my father in law, no matter how well meaning he has always comes across as a bit pervy, and sadly it appears worse the older he gets!
Daffodil Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 I'm actually more creeped out by the ones that have an effect on me. The "pervy" ones are obvious and gross, but some are very smooth and charismatic. They have a way of disarming you that is unsettling to me. I can feel my guard dropping, then quickly throw it back up when I realize what is happening. You really are just a plaything to people (both male and female) like that.
SilentLoner Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 Oh, and ladies? Sometimes when the older guys are checking you out they aren't undressing you with their eyes. Sometimes they are reminiscing about the good old days.Yep. More often than not, I find myself looking at (ogling by some people's opinions) just thinking, 'Wow! She really is beautiful.' or, in most cases, a "cutie". If that pisses anyone off, I don't know what to tell you. HOW DARE you find somebody attractive ! ! ! ! one ! You are not allowed to have that emotion unless you compete form 7131 part B and get it approved by Representative Jeannette Rankin. Best get your time traveling Delorian ready as the line has not moved since ever. This trolling is getting old. 1
SilentLoner Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 Why are some people offended by attraction? Yes I understand the things in the OP. Staring, whistling and cat calls are rude behavior. Rude is rude. Even hitting on somebody who offered no sign of interest is rude. But to be offended over mere attraction? I don't get that. Okay let's say an ugly person finds you attractive and then they never do anything about it. They never hit on you, never cat call, never whistle, only glance at you occasionally. Why is this outrageous? The price of being attractive is that many other people will find you attractive. We don't have to be Victorian about it. Its not "Victorian" to feel creeped out by someone staring at you. All staring is not "occasional glances" - there's a huge difference between fleeting glances and a prolonged leer. Being stared at creepily makes a person feel singled out and possibly even the same as if being cat called or worse. Now, no one is declaring ALL public interactions between men and women who don't know each other to be harassment, don't go there. But the unfortunate reality is women have to deal with stares a lot. 1
wellnamed Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 But to be offended over mere attraction? I don't get that. Okay let's say an ugly person finds you attractive and then they never do anything about it. They never hit on you, never cat call, never whistle, only glance at you occasionally. Why is this outrageous? It seems to me you've constructed a bit of a straw-man to argue against. The reason why women have complaints against unwanted sexual attention is that so frequently it does involve aggressive behavior that goes beyond rudeness to intimidation and hostility. Sure, sometimes people just complain about people they don't think are attractive staring at them, but the reason street harassment is considered a real social problem by feminists rather than just a minor annoyance is because it so often goes well beyond being offended by mere attraction. It's about hating being made to feel afraid of violence in everyday social situations.
ToHellWithMe Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 But to be offended over mere attraction? I don't get that. Okay let's say an ugly person finds you attractive and then they never do anything about it. They never hit on you, never cat call, never whistle, only glance at you occasionally. Why is this outrageous? It seems to me you've constructed a bit of a straw-man to argue against. The reason why women have complaints against unwanted sexual attention is that so frequently it does involve aggressive behavior that goes beyond rudeness to intimidation and hostility. Sure, sometimes people just complain about people they don't think are attractive staring at them, but the reason street harassment is considered a real social problem by feminists rather than just a minor annoyance is because it so often goes well beyond being offended by mere attraction. It's about hating being made to feel afraid of violence in everyday social situations. So... the problem is the actual harrassment and aggressive behavior, not the stares, right?
wellnamed Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 So... the problem is the actual harrassment and aggressive behavior, not the stares, right? In essence yes, but it's also suggesting the need to consider the larger context that explains why stares might be received more negatively than they would be in a vacuum. Mymistake is expressing consternation at the fact that some people get upset by staring. In the absence of more aggressive behavior, he'd probably have a pretty reasonable point. It would be a bit ridiculous to get too worked up about mere staring. Human sexuality being what it is, there's always going to be this give and take of communicating sexual desire. But we don't live in that world in which the aggressive behaviors are absent, and women confronted with unwanted staring are often intimately aware of the fact that sometimes those stares lead to worse behavior. It's perfectly rational for them to be more concerned with staring than they would be if that correlation didn't exist, or if aggressive harassment wasn't so widespread. I don't think the research that is available on street harassment is perfect, there are some issues with sampling methodologies for example, but results are pretty consistent with close to half of all respondents in the various surveys reporting aggressive forms of harassment, with numbers varying from country to country across the more than 20k people surveyed in just these three studies. 1
Daffodil Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 It happens to me too, and I'm a guy. I can't answer for the women, but it makes me feel cheap and it's very demeaning when women look me over or flirt. Hell, I've been fondled in public more than once by some crazed female, I've been whistled at and sexually harassed at work. I'm not kidding either, that's all true. I'd be much more comfortable in my skin if women saw me as ugly and undesirable. I'd be so much happier knowing that their attraction to me at first was more than just physical. I saw a video just the other day of a man in a convenience store. It was one of those security videos. He appeared to be a very good-looking well-built man. Two women walked in, looked at him, said something to him, then one walked over to him and groped him! He pulled away and tried to step back and she came at him again! She did it 3 or 4 times. I was shocked! He kept trying to block her hands and she wouldn't quit. He had been waiting in line to check out and he finally set his items down and walked out. I really felt bad for him!
Daffodil Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 I have to say that it is a bit of a relief to grow old enough that men don't generally notice you anymore. I know there are some women, though, that don't feel that way.
Daffodil Posted December 17, 2015 Posted December 17, 2015 So... the problem is the actual harrassment and aggressive behavior, not the stares, right? In essence yes, but it's also suggesting the need to consider the larger context that explains why stares might be received more negatively than they would be in a vacuum. Mymistake is expressing consternation at the fact that some people get upset by staring. In the absence of more aggressive behavior, he'd probably have a pretty reasonable point. It would be a bit ridiculous to get too worked up about mere staring. Human sexuality being what it is, there's always going to be this give and take of communicating sexual desire. But we don't live in that world in which the aggressive behaviors are absent, and women confronted with unwanted staring are often intimately aware of the fact that sometimes those stares lead to worse behavior. It's perfectly rational for them to be more concerned with staring than they would be if that correlation didn't exist, or if aggressive harassment wasn't so widespread. I don't think the research that is available on street harassment is perfect, there are some issues with sampling methodologies for example, but results are pretty consistent with close to half of all respondents in the various surveys reporting aggressive forms of harassment, with numbers varying from country to country across the more than 20k people surveyed in just these three studies. I agree. I suspect if you ask most any woman, they will tell you that the stares are often a precursor to manhandling of one form or another. Obviously not every time, but it happens enough to make us nervous. I have a number of stories from when I was waiting tables to put myself through college. I'll give you just one of many: I was serving a table in a back corner and had to walk past a long table of about 12 men, some of whom looked me up and down as I passed them each time. When my table's food was ready, I came by them with a large tray holding four full hot plates. As I carefully stepped around them on my way, I felt someone pinch my butt. Thankfully I had the presence of mind and control not to drop that tray full of hot food all over them, but I spent the rest of the night fantasizing about "accidentally" dumping hot coffee on the perpetrator's lap (if I could have figured out which one of them did it)!
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