aboveandbeyond Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Well Christmas is here everyone. For those who still have family and even extended family that are still religious, how are you going to navigate family time? Church? Dinner? This is my first Christmas as an agnostic. How was your first Christmas after your deconversion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I am having Christian family over for dinner. For me Christmas is about watching the kids open gifts and enjoying good food with friends and family. I will be hosting so I get a bit more control over how much religion we do. We won't be doing any Bible readings or acting out Bible plays. Should the conversation become too religious I will simply redirect. A simple "Let's not talk about politics or religion" should do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 You are just a stinking hypocrite. And don't try to make this into some sort of Pagan thing. The Pagans were still worshipping gods and deities. Fact is, you are celebrating Christmas, yet you are an ex-Christian. These non-beliefs of yours are seemingly not worth making a show over. Your table talk tactic is rather pathetic and mealy-mouthed. Best wishes, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted December 17, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted December 17, 2015 You are just a stinking hypocrite. And don't try to make this into some sort of Pagan thing. The Pagans were still worshipping gods and deities. Fact is, you are celebrating Christmas, yet you are an ex-Christian. These non-beliefs of yours are seemingly not worth making a show over. Your table talk tactic is rather pathetic and mealy-mouthed. Best wishes, Paul. Paul, Christians are not permitted to rant at us in this section of OUR website. Keep it in the Lion's Den. For the time being and for the mere entertainment value, I will not delete your post. Yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Cheers, I'll keep it in mind for future. Best wishes, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Someone needed a good ego boost today, huh, Paul? Feel better now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangitbobby83 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 You are just a stinking hypocrite. And don't try to make this into some sort of Pagan thing. The Pagans were still worshipping gods and deities. Fact is, you are celebrating Christmas, yet you are an ex-Christian. These non-beliefs of yours are seemingly not worth making a show over. Your table talk tactic is rather pathetic and mealy-mouthed. Best wishes, Paul. Well...you seem to forget that Christmas is just as much a cultural tradition as well as a religious one. Did you buy presents this year? Put up a tree? Put up lights? Listen to Christmas songs that weren't religious? Do you think "Christ" would approve of the blatant commercialization of his supposed holiday? Did you participate in the commercialization? If anyone is the hypocrite, it's you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 You are just a stinking hypocrite. And don't try to make this into some sort of Pagan thing. The Pagans were still worshipping gods and deities. Fact is, you are celebrating Christmas, yet you are an ex-Christian. These non-beliefs of yours are seemingly not worth making a show over. Your table talk tactic is rather pathetic and mealy-mouthed. Best wishes, Paul. Paul. I think Jesus wants you to prove yourself this Xmas by giving all that you have to the poor and abandoning your family as the NT requests, which no doubt you will do, as I am sure you are not a stinking hypocrite 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted December 17, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted December 17, 2015 I have always enjoyed a secular "Christmas" season. Even my former church recognized the Pagan origins of the holiday and didn't think their Savior just happened to be born around Saturnalia. Christmas has been primarily a secular holiday ever since Coca-Cola invented the modern Santa Claus. For a long, long time many various cultures/religions have had a festival at the Winter Solstice. It matters nothing at all what YOU choose to call it. People like to acknowledge and celebrate the fact that Old Man Winter is finally on his way out and spring waits around the corner. Merry Christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I have always enjoyed a secular "Christmas" season. Even my former church recognized the Pagan origins of the holiday and didn't think their Savior just happened to be born around Saturnalia. Christmas has been primarily a secular holiday ever since Coca-Cola invented the modern Santa Claus. For a long, long time many various cultures/religions have had a festival at the Winter Solstice. It matters nothing at all what YOU choose to call it. People like to acknowledge and celebrate the fact that Old Man Winter is finally on his way out and spring waits around the corner. Merry Christmas Oh yeah, Christmas is such a gigantic holiday, everyone is free to make either as religious or as secular as they want. Tis the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 You are just a stinking hypocrite. And don't try to make this into some sort of Pagan thing. The Pagans were still worshipping gods and deities. Fact is, you are celebrating Christmas, yet you are an ex-Christian. These non-beliefs of yours are seemingly not worth making a show over. Your table talk tactic is rather pathetic and mealy-mouthed. Best wishes, Paul. Paul, I'm curious. Where in the Bible are Christians commanded to celebrate Christmas? Can you tell me the verse where Jesus said to celebrate his birthday with gifts and a decorated tree? I realize I'm probably wrong for engaging with you here, but I'm genuinely curious. Please help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 This is an ex-Christian website. I think it is indeed sheer hypocrisy to be considering celebrating Christmas when you have turned your back on Christianity and regularly mock and ridicule its founder. I would expect people to have the courage of their convictions and treat it like a normal day. You can try to dress it up any way you like. You can try to make it look like your not celebrating Christmas, that you are celebrating the Winter Solstice or whatever excuse you wish to come up with, but the fact remains that it is Christmas. A celebration of the birth of Christ. I am not talking about fence-sitters here, but about avowed atheists. Please, show some conviction in your unbeliefs. Christians are not commanded to celebrate Christ's birth. Christians celebrate it to honour God made flesh. A prophecy fulfilled. Best wishes, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 This is an ex-Christian website. I think it is indeed sheer hypocrisy to be considering celebrating Christmas when you have turned your back on Christianity and regularly mock and ridicule its founder. I would expect people to have the courage of their convictions and treat it like a normal day. You can try to dress it up any way you like. You can try to make it look like your not celebrating Christmas, that you are celebrating the Winter Solstice or whatever excuse you wish to come up with, but the fact remains that it is Christmas. A celebration of the birth of Christ. I am not talking about fence-sitters here, but about avowed atheists. Please, show some conviction in your unbeliefs. Christians are not commanded to celebrate Christ's birth. Christians celebrate it to honour God made flesh. A prophecy fulfilled. Best wishes, Paul. Right, because Christians were the first people ever to celebrate at this time of year. The tree represents the everlasting life that Christ brings, and all that. Nothing pagan there at all. Speaking of hypocrisy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindsighted Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Sorry your thread was hijacked. We're not doing church. Probably. If we do it is only to see some acquaintances we wouldn't otherwise see. And everyone there knows my disbelief. Family dinner will be with a Christian who isn't aware of our disbelief. We'll keep it that way out of concern for her age and health. Here at home we're all about family, giving, and enjoying being festive. Btw, it's my first Christmas after deconverting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted December 20, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 20, 2015 Your table talk tactic is rather pathetic and mealy-mouthed. Best wishes, Paul. And Happy Holidays to you also Paul.... who is supposed to be a loving, kind Christian.... Christmas began long before the birth of Jesus Christ. Alexander Hislop’s book The Two Babylons explores many historical sources showing that the holiday precedes Christ by at least 2,000 years, as earlier mentioned (1957, pp. 97-98). Do a little research Paul. And this article was actually wriiten by 'the church'.... http://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/christmas-before-christ-the-surprising-truth Happy Holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 ... I think it is indeed sheer hypocrisy to be considering celebrating Christmas when you have turned your back on Christianity and regularly mock and ridicule its founder. ... No hypocricy exists. You attempt to require others to celebrate Christmas as you command, as you perceive it and as you would celebrate it yourself. Grow up. ... [T]he fact remains that it is Christmas. A celebration of the birth of Christ. ... For you, perhaps. For others, not so much. You as well as your religion do not hold a patent, copyright or trademark on Christmas, Hanukah, Santa Claus, the Winter Solstice or any other holiday observed this time of year. In any event, take it to the Lion's Den, Mr. "My Religion is the Only Way". ... Christians celebrate [Christmas] to honour God made flesh. A prophecy fulfilled. ... Just not in any way you can demonstrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Ahh, Hislop. I have read that book. Very interesting. But it only goes to prove that everything is connected. It only goes to prove that there is a God who orders everything. The Pagan stuff forms a prophecy going back thousands of years:the idea of a god-man slain on a tree or cross. Now, I know you aren't going to like what I am about to say because it upsets your worldview. But the progression from Horus to Bacchus followed by the appearance of a real, historical Jesus who is then crucified in a similar manner, (together with strong historical evidence of the event from non-Christian sources), makes the Bible and the Christian story rock solid. Had Jesus not been a real historical person then it would be different. But most scholars agree that the crucifixion of Christ was a real event, and even Chris Hitchens grudgingly admitted in one of his lectures that Jesus could have been a real person). Therefore, if the crucifixion occurred as per the prophecy, then the rest did too, including His birth in a stable, three kings etc. Best wishes, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Ahh, Hislop. I have read that book. Very interesting. But it only goes to prove that everything is connected. It only goes to prove that there is a God who orders everything. The Pagan stuff forms a prophecy going back thousands of years:the idea of a god-man slain on a tree or cross. Now, I know you aren't going to like what I am about to say because it upsets your worldview. But the progression from Horus to Bacchus followed by the appearance of a real, historical Jesus who is then crucified in a similar manner, (together with strong historical evidence of the event from non-Christian sources), makes the Bible and the Christian story rock solid. Had Jesus not been a real historical person then it would be different. But most scholars agree that the crucifixion of Christ was a real event, and even Chris Hitchens grudgingly admitted in one of his lectures that Jesus could have been a real person). Therefore, if the crucifixion occurred as per the prophecy, then the rest did too, including His birth in a stable, three kings etc. Best wishes, Paul. Confirmation bias and logical fallacies are your friends. Rational thinking is your enemy. Preach on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted December 20, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted December 20, 2015 How do we have "Christ" in Christmas when we can't even have "Christ" in Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightcore Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 re: The Original Topic of The Thread I'll be navigating it very carefully. Moreso than my first year after deconverting to be honest. I've done a lot to upset my family this year adn just want to have a nice holiday, because despite everything I still love them. Looking forward to it honestly, I don't think we will be doing any church things besides advent. Also my friend who I don't see very often will be celebrating Christmas with my family. That aside, Paul, I'm curious. How do you expect non-Christians to avoid Christmas when it saturates everything? And also, as other people have said it has become a cultural holiday. We've lived a lot of places in the world, and every single one of them celebrates Christmas even if it is a typically Christian holiday these days. I have seen so many good deeds done around Christmas, and my family has often been blessed by other people. Other non Christian people. Christian or not, a lot of people are keeping in the spirit of generosity and care. If you are truly seeking to be Christ-like, maybe you should focus more on encouraging good acts and feelings this time of year instead of trying to call out a bunch of people who are trying to figure out how to have a peaceful holiday. Don't try to pick a splinter out of someone else's eye when you have a whole tree in your own, yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 This is an ex-Christian website. I think it is indeed sheer hypocrisy to be considering celebrating Christmas when you have turned your back on Christianity and regularly mock and ridicule its founder. I would expect people to have the courage of their convictions and treat it like a normal day. You can try to dress it up any way you like. You can try to make it look like your not celebrating Christmas, that you are celebrating the Winter Solstice or whatever excuse you wish to come up with, but the fact remains that it is Christmas. A celebration of the birth of Christ. I am not talking about fence-sitters here, but about avowed atheists. Please, show some conviction in your unbeliefs. Christians are not commanded to celebrate Christ's birth. Christians celebrate it to honour God made flesh. A prophecy fulfilled. Best wishes, Paul. Someone likes to forget that the first christian settlers in the U.S. has LAWS against christmas: The Puritan War on Christmas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Ahh, Hislop. I have read that book. Very interesting. But it only goes to prove that everything is connected. It only goes to prove that there is a God who orders everything. The Pagan stuff forms a prophecy going back thousands of years:the idea of a god-man slain on a tree or cross. Now, I know you aren't going to like what I am about to say because it upsets your worldview. But the progression from Horus to Bacchus followed by the appearance of a real, historical Jesus who is then crucified in a similar manner, (together with strong historical evidence of the event from non-Christian sources), makes the Bible and the Christian story rock solid. Had Jesus not been a real historical person then it would be different. But most scholars agree that the crucifixion of Christ was a real event, and even Chris Hitchens grudgingly admitted in one of his lectures that Jesus could have been a real person). Therefore, if the crucifixion occurred as per the prophecy, then the rest did too, including His birth in a stable, three kings etc. Funniest thing I have read all day. My favorite part was Jesus coming after Horus. Because it isn't made up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 This is an ex-Christian website. I think it is indeed sheer hypocrisy to be considering celebrating Christmas when you have turned your back on Christianity and regularly mock and ridicule its founder. I would expect people to have the courage of their convictions and treat it like a normal day. You can try to dress it up any way you like. You can try to make it look like your not celebrating Christmas, that you are celebrating the Winter Solstice or whatever excuse you wish to come up with, but the fact remains that it is Christmas. A celebration of the birth of Christ. I am not talking about fence-sitters here, but about avowed atheists. Please, show some conviction in your unbeliefs. Christians are not commanded to celebrate Christ's birth. Christians celebrate it to honour God made flesh. A prophecy fulfilled. Best wishes, Paul. Not sure you understand how hypocrisy works. Do you need to believe in witches and ghosts to celebrate Halloween too? What about St. Patty's day? Do ya gotta be Irish? And Harry Potter. If you are entertained, but reject the notion of magic, are you merely a hypocrite for watching and enjoying? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 " Don't try to pick a splinter out of someone else's eye when you have a whole tree in your own, yeah? Er, no. I'll not take lessons on 'Christian living' from an apostasizer. A common tactic used by many on this forum is to turn a Christian's beliefs against them. It's a lazy tactic to employ, and displays quite clearly that the contributor cannot think of anything worthwhile or interesting to add to the discussion. I find it strange that an atheist ex-Christian would want to back up his stance on Christmas with Puritanical fundamentalist Christian posters and signage. Very odd. Best wishes, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzon Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 You are just a stinking hypocrite. And don't try to make this into some sort of Pagan thing. The Pagans were still worshipping gods and deities. Fact is, you are celebrating Christmas, yet you are an ex-Christian. These non-beliefs of yours are seemingly not worth making a show over. Your table talk tactic is rather pathetic and mealy-mouthed. Best wishes, Paul. so what are your thoughts on thanksgiving or the 4th of July. Christmas is to me celebrating winter as being half over and another day to celebrate family and love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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