willybilly30 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 most pastors dont know anything about this stuff and the ones who do usually say the devil made it up or something. gnostic gospels give a clearer picture of this battle you got god of light verses god of darkness. if you ask why them books were left out of the bible to a pastor theyll shake their finger and say god inspired what books go in tha bible. they ongly get to see what the cult wants them too see. i cant remember what thread it was but its been said that satan and god were two gods fighting each other in the bible. When I asked a pastor this they replied that God and Satan were not equal, God was in control of everything, which got me wondering why people need to be "saved" anyway. Come to think of it, why do Catholics say they believe in one God when they pray to Mary and the Saints? Surely Catholicism is especially polytheistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 The Greeks also had their trinity - Zeus, Athena, and Apollo. The Romans had theirs also - Jupiter, Mercury, and Venus. Same thing with Hunduism which predates Christianity and also comes with a very clear trinity - Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. In pictures I have seen it depicted as one god with three heads representing the different functions of the trinity: Creator, maintainer and destroyer. Kind of makes you wonder if Christianity really has any original concepts in it at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Kinda like an interrogation. God's the bad cop - he's after your ass. Jesus is the good cop - he saves your ass. And the Holy Sprocket is the dude who brings you a nice cold Pepsi to drink while the other two are doing the good-cop, bad-cop routine on you. I never have been able to see em all as one entity. Maybe only True Christians can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 christianity had alot of competition in the ancient days. expecially paganism it was the main big religion. so in order to compete it had to borrow stuff and christianise it too make it look more attractive. they did this with holidays for example christmas and yule (pagan yule) are alike, so is easter and holloween and others. i thought of something christans have another god santa clause is the god of winter originally. one thing that aggrivates me about it is they made the horned god into their satan image and burned witches thats just wrong. that why you hear all the bullshit against pagans ever halloween thanks to the stupid lies the ancient church used to take over paganism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Kitty Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 i cant remember what thread it was but its been said that satan and god were two gods fighting each other in the bible. When I asked a pastor this they replied that God and Satan were not equal, God was in control of everything, which got me wondering why people need to be "saved" anyway. I have never understood why God supposedly let Satan run amok the way he has. Why not use your godly powers and elminate him? Just makes no sense that a loving/competent god would allow an evil god/angel/whatever to run the show. And, you are not the only one, many of us were suckers and bought into this nonsense hook line and sinker. The worse part for me was just blindly accepting this stuff even though I smelled a rat, I just couldn't put my finger on it. And of course when confronting my pastor or anyone who I thought was knowledgable on the subject I was always getting the "son, there are just some things about God we just can't fully understand" speech! Yeah we can't understand it because it's ridiculousness goes completely beyond that point Yes, exactly. I could never figure out why god ran the world the way he did. And the best the clergy could offer was something long the lines of "God has a plan for each and every one of us"? The ridiculousness of that goes way off the meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 God says: OK you piece of shit. We freakin know you did it. We got the goods on your ass. We're gonna fry you, mutherfucker. Jesus says: Just admit it. Go ahead and come clean. I'll see that things go easy for you. Holy Sprocket: would you like some Doritos with that Pepsi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 satans is gods bad side to kill satan god would end up killing himself. kind of like dr.jeckl and mr.hyde. but in this case dr.jeckl and mr.hyde can split into and work as seperate beings. so we have one god whose split into jesus, satan, jehovah, holyspirit, and probally a million others. too me this concept makes god a confusing god to follow. I have never understood why God supposedly let Satan run amok the way he has. Why not use your godly powers and elminate him? Just makes no sense that a loving/competent god would allow an evil god/angel/whatever to run the show. And, you are not the only one, many of us were suckers and bought into this nonsense hook line and sinker. The worse part for me was just blindly accepting this stuff even though I smelled a rat, I just couldn't put my finger on it. And of course when confronting my pastor or anyone who I thought was knowledgable on the subject I was always getting the "son, there are just some things about God we just can't fully understand" speech! Yeah we can't understand it because it's ridiculousness goes completely beyond that point Yes, exactly. I could never figure out why god ran the world the way he did. And the best the clergy could offer was something long the lines of "God has a plan for each and every one of us"? The ridiculousness of that goes way off the meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Kitty Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 God says: OK you piece of shit. We freakin know you did it. We got the goods on your ass. We're gonna fry you, mutherfucker. Jesus says: Just admit it. Go ahead and come clean. I'll see that things go easy for you. The Father & the Son are actually a "Good Cop" / "Bad Cop" tag team! I never thought of it that way before, but it makes sense in a twisted kind of way. Holy Sprocket: would you like some Doritos with that Pepsi? I'm not sure where the Pepsi & Doritos fit in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBeeland Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I've never understood how 1+1+1=1 either, but one time my pentacostal co-worker went on a 30-minute lecture trying to explain it to me. He said that god is 3 persons in 1 spirit. Then he had to explain that jehovah god works like our mind, jesus like our body, and the holy ghost like our soul. After I asked him to explain again, he got a little dissed and said I was being a smart-eleck. (cuz he don't cuss) He said it made "perfect sense" because people have a mind, body, and soul and yet we're still one person. I told him I don't believe in souls and he asked why I was being a jerk. Yeah I know it doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 I actually had the book about the Apple calle 1 in 3: the outer layer represented God, the flesh of the apple; God as Jesus the man and the inner represented the Holy Spirit.....it still made no sense. Because that is still 1 apple. Jesus calling god "Father" is what makes the whole thing loony, well that coupled with, "Self, why have I forsaken myself", LOL These analogies are so idiotic, and it doesn't have to be an apple it can be anything (i've heard others). Basically they'll take an object or anything else that consists of at least 3 different components and analogize that to the trinity. Well gee in that case I guess God is like a Vodka Martini, you got your ice (Jehova) and your vodka (Jesus) and your dry vermouth (the Holy Ghost), and when you mix them all together, shake and serve, you have God!! OMG!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I've never understood how 1+1+1=1 either, but one time my pentacostal co-worker went on a 30-minute lecture trying to explain it to me. He said that god is 3 persons in 1 spirit. Then he had to explain that jehovah god works like our mind, jesus like our body, and the holy ghost like our soul. After I asked him to explain again, he got a little dissed and said I was being a smart-eleck. (cuz he don't cuss) He said it made "perfect sense" because people have a mind, body, and soul and yet we're still one person. I told him I don't believe in souls and he asked why I was being a jerk. Yeah I know it doesn't make sense. That makes no sense to me either. Take the mind out of the body, and you don't have two persons, you have a corpse. God says: OK you piece of shit. We freakin know you did it. We got the goods on your ass. We're gonna fry you, mutherfucker. Jesus says: Just admit it. Go ahead and come clean. I'll see that things go easy for you. Holy Sprocket: would you like some Doritos with that Pepsi? Mythra, you're cracking me up again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Kitty Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 And the Holy Sprocket is the dude who brings you a nice cold Pepsi to drink while the other two are doing the good-cop, bad-cop routine on you. Geez, I really am slow today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I actually had the book about the Apple calle 1 in 3: the outer layer represented God, the flesh of the apple; God as Jesus the man and the inner represented the Holy Spirit.....it still made no sense. Because that is still 1 apple. Jesus calling god "Father" is what makes the whole thing loony, well that coupled with, "Self, why have I forsaken myself", LOL These analogies are so idiotic, and it doesn't have to be an apple it can be anything (i've heard others). Basically they'll take an object or anything else that consists of at least 3 different components and analogize that to the trinity. Well gee in that case I guess God is like a Vodka Martini, you got your ice (Jehova) and your vodka (Jesus) and your dry vermouth (the Holy Ghost), and when you mix them all together, shake and serve, you have God!! OMG!! But at least Vodka Martinis taste great! And the feeling of ecstasy you get when you have too many of them is more satisfying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffXL Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Hey I just posted something like this I guess great minds think alike. To me taking these ideas and giving them scholarly sounding, abstract names is just like taking dog shit, wrapping it up nicely and putting a pretty red bow on top. It looks nice at first glance but when you take the wrapper and pretty bow off you still have nothing in the box but a pile of dog shit. That's how I got the double sucker-punch. My dad is a retired professor (veterinary pharmacology), so I grew up around academics. This gave me such a high regard for scholarship, that the two things I respected most (Invisible Sky Fairy and academics) made that theological shit sound impressive. Why my choked brain could not see that subjects like science or the fine arts contributed to human life while religion sucked the life out of just makes me more pissed off! I *loved* the way you describe the theolibabble as a present with dog shit in it. That is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 God says: OK you piece of shit. We freakin know you did it. We got the goods on your ass. We're gonna fry you, mutherfucker. Jesus says: Just admit it. Go ahead and come clean. I'll see that things go easy for you. The Father & the Son are actually a "Good Cop" / "Bad Cop" tag team! I never thought of it that way before, but it makes sense in a twisted kind of way. Holy Sprocket: would you like some Doritos with that Pepsi? I'm not sure where the Pepsi & Doritos fit in though. both will actaully make you more thirsty, it's a plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 But at least Vodka Martinis taste great! And the feeling of ecstasyyou get when you have too many of them is more satisfying! Plus, vodka martinis actually exist. You don't have to use apologetics to explain why they can't be found! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 aren't you going off topic a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I understand it as cause, medium and effect. It's present in all living things as thought, action and result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The Trinity was invented as opposition to the pagan trinity belif of the time. The pagan trinity makes MUCH more sense, as it is the only way "three" in "one" is truly possible. I posted this somewhere a while back. The Trinity has interesting roots. Once, long ago, there was a belief in the Maid (youth, innocence), the Mother (birth, sexuality), and the Crone (wisdom). Society worshipped the female aspects of divinity, and why not? Women gave birth, a process little understood and though to be magical as life was brought forth from a woman's body. Eventually the monotheistic patriarcals came along and morphed everything around to suit their religion and press people into conforming with their way of thinking. Thus the Maid, Mother, and Crone were replaced by Son, Father, Holy Ghost. So THIS is how 3 in one is really possible if you look at it as originally describing the three aspects of a woman's life (which would of course be exactly how the goddess of paganism would be seen). The Old Guys who wanted to push out the pagan belief system came up with a "male" trinity.....that really doesn't "work" when you really think about it..... a Father....who becomes a Son (backwards process)......and then the "everpresence" of a vague sort of ghost. Ghosts are linked with death....but the Son didn't stay dead, so there shouldn't be a Ghost.... but there IS one anyway.....WTF???? Good thing for the Old Guys who pushed this that the majority of the populace was not very well educated at the time. Not so good now though, as it is clearly just one more thing created to make christianity palatable for the general population. Added sugar to the snake oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The Trinity was invented as opposition to the pagan trinity belif of the time. The pagan trinity makes MUCH more sense, as it is the only way "three" in "one" is truly possible. That's pretty much the norm for any Christian mythos that doesn't seem to match up. The vast majority (if not all) Christian holidays & mythos like this are events that have been adapted or usurped from Pagan events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Thus the Maid, Mother, and Crone were replaced by Son, Father, Holy Ghost. I've never heard a claim of an historical antecedence of the Trinity to this before. Is this a Wiccan claim that Christianity stole the Trinity idea from them? I know there are a lot of these sorts of claims made by lots of various religious groups. I'd be curious to see some historical corroboration of it. I am familiar with other triune deity concepts in other religions, and various theories surrounding Christianity's post-biblical formulation of the Trinitarian idea. There were various competing ideas of the nature of Jesus, and Tertullian was one of them who taught a 3-person godhead, and the one that won the counsel vote in Nicea, 325 A.D. (Personally, I leaned towards modelism instead, made much more sense, as far as God goes) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity#Historical_development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 In reading some of the gnostic writings and NT apocrypha, I've seen the holy spirit referred to as the mother of Jesus. Now, that would make a whole lot more sense. Now, we're getting to a family of gods. Just like the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians the Babylonians.... The Yah family. Yahve, little Yahshua, and Yahmama. That's why the blasphemy of the HS is such a grievous error. You can mess with daddy, you can mess with junior, But NOBODY messes with mama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Thus the Maid, Mother, and Crone were replaced by Son, Father, Holy Ghost. I've never heard a claim of an historical antecedence of the Trinity to this before. Is this a Wiccan claim that Christianity stole the Trinity idea from them? I know there are a lot of these sorts of claims made by lots of various religious groups. I'd be curious to see some historical corroboration of it. Ergh. My best reference isn't online! Unless you can find it......The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets by Barbara G. Walker. Copyright for my volume is 1983. It's under the Trinity listing. From the earliest ages, the concept of the Great Goddess was a trinity and model for all subsequent trinities, female, male, or mixed. Anatolian villages in the 7th millenium B.C. worshipped a Goddess in three aspects - as a young woman, a birth-giving matron, and an old woman. This typical Virgin-Mother-Crone combination was Parvati-Durga-Uma (Kali) in India, Ana-Babd-Macha (the Morrigan) in Ireland, or in Greece Hebe-Hera-Hecate, the three Moerae, the three Gorgons, the three Graeae, the three Horae, etc. Among the Vikings, the threefold Goddess appeared as the Norns; among the Romans, as the Fates or Fortunae; among the druids, as Diana Triformis. The Triple Goddess had more than three: she had hundreds of forms. I did some poking online for good references too. http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/HecateTrinity.html This grouping was chock full of details: http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles...nd_history.html http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles...the_virgin.html http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles...the_mother.html http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles..._the_crone.html Here's a goodie: http://www.truthbeknown.com/virgin.htm It included these familiar goodies: Again, the Christian virgin birth is no more historical or believable than that of these numerous other gods. Moreover, as Robertson says, "The idea of a Virgin-Mother-Goddess is practically universal." The list of Pagan virgin mothers includes the following: Alcmene, mother of Hercules who gave birth on December 25th Alitta, Babylonian Madonna and Child Anat, Syrian wife of "the earlier Supreme God El," called "Virgin Goddess" Cavillaca, Peruvian huaca (divine spirit) impregnated by the "son of the sun god" through eating his semen in the shape of a fruit Chimalman, mother of Kukulcan Chinese mother of Foe (Buddha) Coatlicue, mother of the Mexican god Huitzilopochtli Cybele, "Queen of Heaven and Mother of God" Danae, mother of Perseus Demeter/Ceres, "Holy Virgin" mother of Persephone/Kore and Dionysus Devaki, mother of Krishna Frigga, mother of the Scandinavian god Balder Hera, mother of Zeus's children Hertha, Teutonic goddess Isis, who gave birth to Horus on December 25th Juno, mother of Mars/Ares, called "Matrona" and "Virginalis," the Mother and Virgin Mandana, mother of Cyrus/Koresh Maya, mother of Buddha Mother of Lao-kiun, "Chinese philosopher and teacher, born in 604 B.C." Mother of the Indian solar god Rudra Nana, mother of Attis Neith, mother of Osiris, who was "worshipped as the Holy Virgin, the Great Mother, yet an Immaculate Virgin." Nutria, mother of an Etruscan Son of God Ostara, the German goddess Rohini, mother of Indian "son of God" Semele, mother of Dionysus/Bacchus, who was born on December 25th Shin-Moo, Chinese Holy Mother Siamese mother of Somonocodom (Buddha) Sochiquetzal, mother of Quetzalcoatl Vari, Polynesian "First Mother," who created her children "by plucking pieces out of her sides." Venus, the "Virgo Coelestis" depicted as carrying a child Cool stuff! Hope I didn't over-do it. But you don't seem easy to overwhelm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 and Yahmama. Oh crap man! Yahmama! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demona- Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 In reading some of the gnostic writings and NT apocrypha, I've seen the holy spirit referred to as the mother of Jesus. Now, that would make a whole lot more sense. Now, we're getting to a family of gods. Just like the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians the Babylonians.... The Yah family. Yahve, little Yahshua, and Yahmama. That's why the blasphemy of the HS is such a grievous error. You can mess with daddy, you can mess with junior, But NOBODY messes with mama. Oh shit! That's great! I'm totally quoting that in my sig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts