Wittyusername Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 I was just thinking about something the pastor at the church I used to attend once said to me. We had been saving up to have a child but it turns out my husband had been taking the money and gambling and doing other things with it. In my distress I spoke to our pastor and his response was 'see, you shouldn't have waited, now the money's gone. You should have just had children because God will provide! Your husband would have become responsible and been home playing with the kids instead of gallivanting!' At the time I was upset , but looking back I can see that this stranger had an unhealthily intrusive level of information about my reproductive life. He would have encouraged a situation where we have kids we can't afford and bringing them into a toxic relationship with an irresponsible addict parent. Wow. There is a family at our (former) church with seven children and every couple of years a new one. The older girls have to look after the others . We took round food parcels. I don't know about benefits but I would not want to ON PURPOSE have children I can't feed so that when YOU are at your job working for your family I am waiting for a cut of your pay check ( I'm not talking about people who fall on hard times, I mean planning for 'God to provide' which is actually often scrounging off other people'. 4
BarbarousBill Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 "God will provide!" Just like he provided Hurricane Katrina to the families there. I hear this most from Mormons and it drives me up a wall. (Mormon): "God will bless us!" (Me): "How will you pay for them?" (Mo): "God will!" (Me): "What if he doesn't?" (Mo): "He will. And it doesn't matter. We will survive." (Me): "How?" (Mo): "God." (Me): "You mean welfare?" (Mo): *walks away* *votes Republican and then complains about welfare queens on Facebook* *takes welfare for having 12 kids and adopting 6 from China the next year* 2
Daffodil Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 I was just thinking about something the pastor at the church I used to attend once said to me. We had been saving up to have a child but it turns out my husband had been taking the money and gambling and doing other things with it. In my distress I spoke to our pastor and his response was 'see, you shouldn't have waited, now the money's gone. You should have just had children because God will provide! Your husband would have become responsible and been home playing with the kids instead of gallivanting!' At the time I was upset , but looking back I can see that this stranger had an unhealthily intrusive level of information about my reproductive life. He would have encouraged a situation where we have kids we can't afford and bringing them into a toxic relationship with an irresponsible addict parent. Wow. There is a family at our (former) church with seven children and every couple of years a new one. The older girls have to look after the others . We took round food parcels. I don't know about benefits but I would not want to ON PURPOSE have children I can't feed so that when YOU are at your job working for your family I am waiting for a cut of your pay check ( I'm not talking about people who fall on hard times, I mean planning for 'God to provide' which is actually often scrounging off other people'. Yes! Scrounging off other people is exactly how they do it. And they will tell you till they're blue in the face that God provided absolutely everything. Of course the fact that they routinely share prayer requests of how hard it is to feed all those kids and how tired mom is and how old and barely functioning their vehicle is and how their house is too small, doesn't factor in at all. One family of 11 kids I know was given - GIVEN - a house free and clear and every huge conversion van they owned were also given to them. And yet, It was god that provided! Disgusting. 1
Lilith666 Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 God convicted the people who actually did the providing to give the shirt off their backs. So it really was god.
Ellinas Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 It's an amazing fact that heartens the god-fearing whenever they find that someone turns up to meet their needs... In order to live by faith, all you have to do is shout loudly enough.
older Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Years ago some folks came around to a church my wife was attending with a tale of woe. The church helped them out for a while but the folks kept coming back for more help. The church leaders finally discovered that these folks were making the rounds of all the area churches and were nothing more than professional mooches. The church finally turned them away.
miamia Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Ugh I hate to say that my older sister kind of does this. They receive benefits for having so many children and always believe god will provide. Granted, they do put in a massive amount of effort themselves, and they truly benefit and brighten the lives of everyone around them, no one they know considers them moochers or anything and they have worked hard toward self sufficiency. all of their children are well taken care of, and they do way more to save and budget than they do to spend. I often wonder though, if they realize, that without modern benefits and the hard work of others, they would be in a terrible way. They take advantage when free extra food is handed out at their church, but to my knowledge they have never asked specifically for any handouts. But eight kids is a lot. I think that they find communities in the church that accept them for what they are and want to benefit them because they are good kind, supportive people themselves, and their children are well behaved, and a good influence to other people around them. Idk how I feel about this.
Daffodil Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Ugh I hate to say that my older sister kind of does this. They receive benefits for having so many children and always believe god will provide. Granted, they do put in a massive amount of effort themselves, and they truly benefit and brighten the lives of everyone around them, no one they know considers them moochers or anything and they have worked hard toward self sufficiency. all of their children are well taken care of, and they do way more to save and budget than they do to spend. I often wonder though, if they realize, that without modern benefits and the hard work of others, they would be in a terrible way. They take advantage when free extra food is handed out at their church, but to my knowledge they have never asked specifically for any handouts. But eight kids is a lot. I think that they find communities in the church that accept them for what they are and want to benefit them because they are good kind, supportive people themselves, and their children are well behaved, and a good influence to other people around them. Idk how I feel about this. Yeah, that family of 11 I mentioned above is also super nice with well-behaved kids and the dad works three jobs to make ends meet while mom home schools. Still, plenty other families are like them and don't get houses and vehicles gifted to them. You also don't have to overtly ask for help. Sharing prayer requests, "Johnny needs hernia surgery. Please pray that it goes smoothly," can get you tons of meals, your grass cut for you, your house painted, etc. Even the people meeting the need think they're doing god's will. 1
miamia Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Ugh I hate to say that my older sister kind of does this. They receive benefits for having so many children and always believe god will provide. Granted, they do put in a massive amount of effort themselves, and they truly benefit and brighten the lives of everyone around them, no one they know considers them moochers or anything and they have worked hard toward self sufficiency. all of their children are well taken care of, and they do way more to save and budget than they do to spend. I often wonder though, if they realize, that without modern benefits and the hard work of others, they would be in a terrible way. They take advantage when free extra food is handed out at their church, but to my knowledge they have never asked specifically for any handouts. But eight kids is a lot. I think that they find communities in the church that accept them for what they are and want to benefit them because they are good kind, supportive people themselves, and their children are well behaved, and a good influence to other people around them. Idk how I feel about this. Yeah, that family of 11 I mentioned above is also super nice with well-behaved kids and the dad works three jobs to make ends meet while mom home schools. Still, plenty other families are like them and don't get houses and vehicles gifted to them. You also don't have to overtly ask for help. Sharing prayer requests, "Johnny needs hernia surgery. Please pray that it goes smoothly," can get you tons of meals, your grass cut for you, your house painted, etc. Even the people meeting the need think they're doing god's will. I hate to think about it in a negative light but I suppose you are right. Ugh. It's all because she thinks she HAS to leave it in the hands of god. She has said in her own words that how many kids she has is not up to her, and that god will provide. She got married at 19, and has had kids ever since. Now she is 36 and has 8. They JUST got their own house. I love her and I see what kind of person she is, so it's really hard to think about it badly but it is bad. If we lived a hundred years ago, all in the same small village, a community of 25 people would be hard pressed to support so many, not just so that they survived but so they were well nourished and educated. If I had to help do it personally, I know I would be pretty resentful. Even with the efficiency of modern life where less work can support a few more people, all that money has to come from somewhere. I guess she just feels ok about it because it isn't like the people she knows personally have to sacrifice for it, but someone somewhere does. She believes that someone is god.
LifeCycle Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 God provided for the families here in Moore Oklahoma just so their kids could drown in a basement of a school when a tornado ripped through the town a couple of years ago.
Lilith666 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 miamia: "She has said . . .that how many kids she has is not up to her" Oh Jesus, that's disgusting.
miamia Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 miamia: "She has said . . .that how many kids she has is not up to her" Oh Jesus, that's disgusting. It is. It's a disgusting ideology to think that you are not in control of decisions you do have the right to make. But she isn't a disgusting person. And just to be clear too, it's not like her husband is forcing her into it or anything. She really wholeheartedly believes this and is happy about it. I understand why she is the way she is, she was brought up by the same awful neurotic mother, 13 years before me and my sister came along so she didn't have anyone close to her who understood or who she felt comfortable with as a close peer to bounce ideas and questions off of like we did, and I'm still extremely damaged. She has always wanted to be a mom though, ever since she was little. I just think that if religion hadn't been forced onto her, she would have gone about it a different way. However, I am glad that at least she is not so deeply religious as my mother.Her children are allowed to think and speak for themselves without condition. She is a gentle caring mother, so hopefully, the damage our mother did will end with her.
Lilith666 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I'm sure your sister is a lovely person. Glad her kids are all right and that her husband is not "making" her have children. But it is horrifying that she thinks whatever will be, will be and that even what happens to her own body is not her choice. (Of course, fundy Christians tend to think that way.) Still, it's awful to read that.
miamia Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 I'm sure your sister is a lovely person. Glad her kids are all right and that her husband is not "making" her have children. But it is horrifying that she thinks whatever will be, will be and that even what happens to her own body is not her choice. (Of course, fundy Christians tend to think that way.) Still, it's awful to read that. I know. It bothers me too.
amateur Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Polygamist Mormons have for years had way more children than they can provide for, and they abuse welfare, and call it "Bleeding the Beast" (i.e., taking advantage of welfare and the government). Google "Bleeding the beast" and there it is. I remember being a young mother's bible study (oh, ugh!) and one of the women said her church leader insisted everybody tithe plus give special extra gifts as the church needed, and NOT to worry about saving for their children's futures (college, weddings, bail) because "god will provide." She and her husband were barely scraping by but she felt she had to still tithe and give extra. This was causing her to be near tears as she described their situation. I listened to the discussion but simply had no words, because they were all so earnestly trying to please the pastors and churches. My ex-husband and I never tithed or paid ridiculous extras (we did give money to the church), but we always put away money for our retirement and for our kids' futures first. When we eventually reached a decision to divorce, we had the money to divorce, we still had the money saved for the kids' education, and we both had money (split in half) that at least managed to let us both re-start our lives. Hmmmm, sounds like the church wants as much money as possible so they can control the flock, keep people married at all costs, and keep kids from getting that college education which might make them think on their own..... Hmmmmm. I'm glad my ex-husband and I provided for ourselves, rather than expecting some imaginary sky-daddy to take care of everything for us. After all, we were fully-functioning adults, capable of taking care of ourselves and planning for our own future. I still respect my ex-husband. I have no respect left for the church and the leaders.
dangitbobby83 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Years ago some folks came around to a church my wife was attending with a tale of woe. The church helped them out for a while but the folks kept coming back for more help. The church leaders finally discovered that these folks were making the rounds of all the area churches and were nothing more than professional mooches. The church finally turned them away. That church was purposefully disobeying the words of Jesus. Matthew 5:40. Asks for a shirt, give him the cloak too. I got into a debate not long ago about this very topic. The person told a similar story as you. I told him the church was disobeying God's own words by turning them away. When he responded that "well we are also called to be good stewards and it's better to teach a man how to fish, blah blah", I simply responded that Jesus never said anything about turning others away, or put any qualifiers on the verse. (Ask for a shirt and give a cloak too...unless you find out the guy is going around asking everyone for a shirt and everyone else has also given him their shirt, then it's okay to turn away because that's being a better steward) He tried to point out some other NT works, I just fired back the whole "context" argument all Christians make when talking about contradictions and pointed out that there are ways to give the shirt and cloak while also being "good stewards". Oddly enough, the dude realized he had to be somewhere immediately... Silly Cherry Pickin' Christians...
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