Why I Am Going Back To Church

[Jeff]

gack

[Vigile]

I hope you have the ability to compartmentalize on the level of a Bill Clinton. I personally just don't see how you can sit through sermons week after week and not have it do damage to your soul, spirit, psychology, whatever you want to call it. I'd be sitting there getting angrier and angrier about the deceptive bullshit I was hearing from the pulpit and being disgusted at the bumpkins lapping it all up without question despite the fact they are adults. That would destroy me inside and make life literally not worth living. 

[mwc]

     I found in business that church contacts are the worst contacts.

 

     They always want a special church-pal deal.  When they're not late they just up and flake but it's cool because church, right?  They bad-mouth you to the church when you don't give kiss their unreasonable ass.  And just on and on.

 

     Church for business is not worth it...unless you hate your business and yourself.

 

          mwc

[Margee]

     I found in business that church contacts are the worst contacts.

 

     They always want a special church-pal deal.  When they're not late they just up and flake but it's cool because church, right?  They bad-mouth you to the church when you don't give kiss their unreasonable ass.  And just on and on.

 

     Church for business is not worth it...unless you hate your business and yourself.

 

          mwc

 

mwc, this was the case in my hair-styling business. I had tons of woman from the church that I did their hair. The church was huge and I was quite popular back in my younger days as a hairstylist. Everyone of those woman thought they were so special and never refused, ever, when I cut the price. (and they didn't tip me to make up for it either) Then, once I stared doing this, I was sunk and could never recover the money. There was the odd one who would say: ''Charge me the going price because God wants you to prosper''.

 

Today, I don't care who you are, I charge the 'going prices' except to those in the family and a couple of very close friends.

[directionless]

Of course if @mwc and @Margee lost money through business dealings with church members, then the other church members gained money in those same dealings. I want to go to church so I can find business owners who will give me their products at deeply discounted "fellow-church-goer" prices

 

On a more serious note, what about becoming Freemasons or similar groups? I have heard that Freemasons try to help each other in business.

[florduh]

The last place I would look for business contacts would be a church or perhaps a homeless shelter.

[Daffodil]

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

[directionless]

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

Have you thought about an Episcopal church? They have very brief services - sing a few songs, recite some prayers, listen to a five minute sermon, communion. The whole thing is usually over in 30 minutes.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I am sure you guys chose the particular church you attend for good reasons. Sometimes I post things on forums because I am depressed or lonely, and what I post isn't always helpful to the discussion. I don't mean to be that way, but I am often...

[florduh]

It took the gay community a long time to realize the mistake they had been making by hiding and trying to pass as straight in a predominantly straight society. I'm sorry for anyone who feels they must sacrifice their own identity just to seemingly make life easier. Integrity is the only thing nobody can take from you. You have to give it away. 

[Vigile]

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

 

Why not just show up once a year and claim that place as your own? Why torture yourselves every week when a white lie is sufficient? 

[Vigile]

It took the gay community a long time to realize the mistake they had been making by hiding and trying to pass as straight in a predominantly straight society. I'm sorry for anyone who feels they must sacrifice their own identity just to seemingly make life easier. Integrity is the only thing nobody can take from you. You have to give it away. 

 

Perfect analogy. 

[Lycorth]

This is very sad, indeed. Daffodil, I'm sorry you and your husband feel forced into wasting time and exposing your children to the dangerous ideology of Christianity. I truly hope for all your sakes that you all can move and be free somewhere else.

 

Religion will persist as long as freethinkers are forced to be silent (or are made to feel like they are).

 

I wish you all the best!

[TrueFreedom]

 

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

 

Why not just show up once a year and claim that place as your own? Why torture yourselves every week when a white lie is sufficient? 

 

I like this idea.  There are plenty of people out there who only attend for holidays.

[Daffodil]

 

 

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

 

Why not just show up once a year and claim that place as your own? Why torture yourselves every week when a white lie is sufficient?

I like this idea. There are plenty of people out there who only attend for holidays.

Believe it or not, that would be worse to me. My first inkling that Christians were hypocrites was in high school when I noticed how many would parade in on the holidays, dressed to the nines, and sit in the front row to show off. They never set foot in the church the rest of the year but still called themselves Christians. Now once a month I could do! ????

[rjn]

It took the gay community a long time to realize the mistake they had been making by hiding and trying to pass as straight in a predominantly straight society. I'm sorry for anyone who feels they must sacrifice their own identity just to seemingly make life easier. Integrity is the only thing nobody can take from you. You have to give it away.

 

This. Best damn thing you've ever said. Not implying you usually do not say good things, but this was especially spot on.

[TrueFreedom]

 

 

 

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

Why not just show up once a year and claim that place as your own? Why torture yourselves every week when a white lie is sufficient?

I like this idea. There are plenty of people out there who only attend for holidays.

Believe it or not, that would be worse to me. My first inkling that Christians were hypocrites was in high school when I noticed how many would parade in on the holidays, dressed to the nines, and sit in the front row to show off. They never set foot in the church the rest of the year but still called themselves Christians. Now once a month I could do!

 

But aren't you acting out what you despise by pretending?

[Daffodil]

 

 

 

 

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

 

Why not just show up once a year and claim that place as your own? Why torture yourselves every week when a white lie is sufficient?

I like this idea. There are plenty of people out there who only attend for holidays.

Believe it or not, that would be worse to me. My first inkling that Christians were hypocrites was in high school when I noticed how many would parade in on the holidays, dressed to the nines, and sit in the front row to show off. They never set foot in the church the rest of the year but still called themselves Christians. Now once a month I could do!

But aren't you acting out what you despise by pretending?

Yes, and I totally see the irony. Just not a good situation all around. Thanks for all the suggestions, though.

[Daffodil]

It took the gay community a long time to realize the mistake they had been making by hiding and trying to pass as straight in a predominantly straight society. I'm sorry for anyone who feels they must sacrifice their own identity just to seemingly make life easier. Integrity is the only thing nobody can take from you. You have to give it away.

 

As I said earlier, if you can order your life in such a way as to never ever compromise, then good for you. But when they can find excuses to fire you and then blacklist you from getting hired elsewhere, as happened to Neil Carter of Godless in Dixie, or prevent you from moving forward in your career, as we are concerned with here, it affects your ability to make a living and provide for your family. We're not that bad off, but don't want to end up there, either. And anyway, it was not a mistake for the gay community to hide and pass for straight - it was pure survival! Many were beaten and abused or even killed when others outed them. It wasn't about making life "easier" - it was about living another day. I'm glad that so many of them feel confident coming out, but the stakes are still very high for them and many are still closeted - especially in religious areas. I've read many many stories of young people from religiously strict families committing suicide after being completely disowned by the families they thought loved them when they came out. Calling it a "mistake" is a great disservice to how they have had to live.

[mymistake]

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

 

 

Ah, well to reach that goal you only have to attend once a month.  And only the main service.  Stick to the bare minimum.  It doesn't take much to keep up appearances.

[Bhim]

Hi Daffodil. Sorry you are in this position. On the one hand, if going to church truly will advance your husband's career, it's hard to take another course of action. And the end of the day it's how you make your living, and without a job, life is exceedingly difficult. On the other hand, you're living a lie. And then there is the most significant issue (in my mind anyway): the loss of your Sundays.

 

I can relate to this somewhat. My deconversion from flaming evangelical to returning Hindu took place over the course of about a week, and when it was all over I found myself in the untenable situation of living with oppressive Christian roommates who were unaware of my change of mind and heart. I'll admit it, I went to church every Sunday for an entire year just to keep the peace. Not only church, but Bible study on Tuesday nights and occasional social obligations with the Christians. I would say that the worst part of this was the utter loss of my Sundays. Going to sleep early on Saturday nights was torturous, because I was painfully aware of how potent an influence this false god Jesus had on my life. Waking up, shaking the sleep out of my eyes, and driving several miles to attend an activity I hated proved to be infinitely more difficult than Sunday mornings of old when my heart had been in it. I could scarcely stand going to church on Sunday morning, and for the rest of the day I resented the institution of evangelical Christianity for taking away so much time that I could have been spending on anything else. I hate church, and I will never set foot in one again save for occasions when it is repurposed as a polling place on election days.

 

Right now you are in a position where you haven't yet made social contacts, and there is no social structure necessitating that you go to church. Of course only you and your husband can decide what's best for you and your kids. Were I in your place, I could never do what you are doing now. But if you decide to continue the facade of attending a church, I truly wish you the best.

 

If you are still open to other options, here's one suggestion I would like to offer. Can you claim to belong to another religion? I have a friend, also a Hindu, who lives near Wichita. Like me he is intellectually an atheist, but if anyone were to ask him what church he goes to, he can simply dispel any suspicions by saying "I don't go to church, I'm Hindu." Depending on what the cultural climate is like, being branded an idolater may be worse than being unchurched, but apparently this isn't the case in at least one part of Kansas since my friend has never experienced any trouble. If you could claim to be Unitarian Universalist/Buddhist/whatever, perhaps this may ameliorate the stigma of not being part of a church? If this would not go over well in your part of the state, then please forgive my ignorance of the religious geography of Kansas.

[Vigile]

 

 

 

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

Why not just show up once a year and claim that place as your own? Why torture yourselves every week when a white lie is sufficient?

I like this idea. There are plenty of people out there who only attend for holidays.

Believe it or not, that would be worse to me. My first inkling that Christians were hypocrites was in high school when I noticed how many would parade in on the holidays, dressed to the nines, and sit in the front row to show off. They never set foot in the church the rest of the year but still called themselves Christians. Now once a month I could do!

 

 

I still don't get then why you're going this. You said it's so you, or your husband can answer the question "where do you go to church"? If that's the case, who cares if you're a hypocrite? You're kind of a hypocrite anyway going to church simply to put on airs.

[mwc]

I still don't get then why you're going this. You said it's so you, or your husband can answer the question "where do you go to church"? If that's the case, who cares if you're a hypocrite? You're kind of a hypocrite anyway going to church simply to put on airs.

     Unless she's not.  Being a hypocrite about going back to church that is.

 

     Wouldn't be the first person to go back couched in some story in an attempt to smooth the edges.

 

          mwc

[Tsathoggua]

 

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

 

 

Ah, well to reach that goal you only have to attend once a month.  And only the main service.  Stick to the bare minimum.  It doesn't take much to keep up appearances.

 

 

I gotta admit, I didn't mind doing my own version of this for many years -- I would attend late service at my congregation (Church of Christ), enjoy singing along (I actually still enjoy hymns; you don't have to believe the message, if you ask me), and could put up with listening to a sermon that I didn't agree with. I could manage an hour per week at church without bursting into flames. With the proper attitude, it can actually be vaguely amusing. Then I would vacate the premises and drive off to a restaurant for lunch. Not too bad!

 

But I'm still glad that I stopped, eventually.

[dichotomy]

That really sucks.

 

I haven't read the entire thread so apologies if this has been said already, but could you perhaps be church hoppers and go along to one church for a while, then try out a different one and so on and so forth? That way you'd never have to get too involved and hopefully the children wouldn't make too many connections there?

 

Or one of you could go one week and the other stay at home with the kids and alternate?

[Daffodil]

 

 

 

 

It's less about getting contacts and more about being able to legitimately answer the question, "Where do you go to church?" If he says he doesn't go to church, he is looked down on.

 

Why not just show up once a year and claim that place as your own? Why torture yourselves every week when a white lie is sufficient?

I like this idea. There are plenty of people out there who only attend for holidays.

Believe it or not, that would be worse to me. My first inkling that Christians were hypocrites was in high school when I noticed how many would parade in on the holidays, dressed to the nines, and sit in the front row to show off. They never set foot in the church the rest of the year but still called themselves Christians. Now once a month I could do!

 

I still don't get then why you're going this. You said it's so you, or your husband can answer the question "where do you go to church"? If that's the case, who cares if you're a hypocrite? You're kind of a hypocrite anyway going to church simply to put on airs.

I don't really see it as putting on airs. As I said earlier, we are going to answer questions honestly. My husband has never lied about the struggles he has with believing - he's just selective as to who he shares that with. People don't walk up to you in church and demand to know your level of commitment. If you're not in a small group, there's really no pressure to reveal yourself. So it's more of a social club with an annoying "lecture" at the beginning of the morning. I would even suggest that a sizable number of butts in pews treat it that very way. It's just the simple act of walking through those doors leads people to think we believe the same as them.