Guest end3 Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace. So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity. Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives? To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol.
bornagainathiest Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 To whom it may concern. Please don't bother responding to End3 in this thread if you have any expectation of him answering your direct questions. Or of the issue in question being critically examined. Or of anything being resolved here. . . . End3 started this thread to argue with us and so relieve his stress. (His own words!) Thanks, BAA.
duderonomy Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 To whom it may concern. Please don't bother responding to End3 in this thread if you have any expectation of him answering your direct questions. Or of the issue in question being critically examined. Or of anything being resolved here. . . . End3 started this thread to argue with us and so relieve his stress. (His own words!) Thanks, BAA. Sorry, BAA, but this thread is wild wild west. It's been abandoned, but still not closed, and yet there is nothing here save for your detour sign, so I'm diving in because even abandoned threads need something real inside them. Something human. In the OT, Biblegod let his people run a tab. They had to pay, but only at the end. Then they had to die for what they'd done, or kill something that would smell good to him. In the NT, Biblegod came to give us one more lecture on how fucked up we were, then he killed himself to pay for our sins once, for all. Now that's some kind of grace, right? I mean, shit, motherf*ckers, everything's on Jesus' credit card! All sins gone? All vengance someday taken? I win in the end, and I ain't got to do nothing but believe it? Shit yeah! Let's party all up inside this thread! 1
♦ ficino ♦ Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Dude, you're forgetting that James wrote, "faith without works is dead." Oh, I forgot - Martin Luther told us he would fire his stove with the epistle of James. So yeah, let's party up! 1
ironhorse Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace. So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity. Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives? To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol. God has already done everything. "It is finished." No need for another explanation. Why mess with such a simple and wonderful story?
duderonomy Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace. So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity. Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives? To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol. God has already done everything. "It is finished." No need for another explanation. Why mess with such a simple and wonderful story? End, I'll translate for you. Ironhorse is saying "don't think". He's telling you to not bother to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, and don't worry when none of it works. 3
bornagainathiest Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace. So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity. Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives? To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol. God has already done everything. "It is finished." No need for another explanation. Why mess with such a simple and wonderful story? Because messing with it requires using your brain, Ironhorse. Something you claim is a good idea. Which means that you are giving a fellow Christian bad advice. Advice which you are on record as saying is not a good a idea. Posted Yesterday, 09:30 PM Margee, on 18 Feb 2016 - 7:07 PM, said: Dear, dear, dear, I can't even listen to this crap anymore. I'd like to smack those cocky little, brainwashed kids up against the side of their dear little heads and tell them to use their brains... Maybe, I'll just go an get me a hooker since I have no morals...... I'm so embarrassed because I used to be this way....I always have to remember that... Ironhorse wrote... I agree. Using our brains is a good idea.
Guest end3 Posted March 2, 2016 Posted March 2, 2016 Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace. So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity. Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives? To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol. God has already done everything. "It is finished." No need for another explanation. Why mess with such a simple and wonderful story? End, I'll translate for you. Ironhorse is saying "don't think". He's telling you to not bother to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, and don't worry when none of it works. IH, it helps me to know the mechanics or steps of a process.....so I know it as truth and am able to explain it better.
duderonomy Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 IH, it helps me to know the mechanics or steps of a process.....so I know it as truth and am able to explain it better. Ironhorse, let me translate for you. End3 is saying that he can't "just believe". He needs to know how it all works, because he's tried for years to make it work, and he just can't. He can't explain Christianity to people without offering some kind of proof anymore. He has to know it's true so he can shove it our faces with something more than the Bono lyrics and easy believism that you offer, so what else do you have?
♦ ficino ♦ Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 God has already done everything. "It is finished." No need for another explanation. Why mess with such a simple and wonderful story? What Ironhorse thinks God has "done/finished" is not biblical. The "OT" is clear that one person cannot die for the sins of another. http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation1.html The "story", then, is simple only when you ditch big parts of the scriptures that are supposed to convey the story. The "OT" also makes clear that God abhors human sacrifice. But the "wonderful" part of Ironhorse's story is human sacrifice. So, fail. Again.
ironhorse Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 God has already done everything. "It is finished." No need for another explanation. Why mess with such a simple and wonderful story? What Ironhorse thinks God has "done/finished" is not biblical. The "OT" is clear that one person cannot die for the sins of another. http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation1.html The "story", then, is simple only when you ditch big parts of the scriptures that are supposed to convey the story. The "OT" also makes clear that God abhors human sacrifice. But the "wonderful" part of Ironhorse's story is human sacrifice. So, fail. Again. from the link: …we must still go by what the Bible states, and the Bible states, in no uncertain terms, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' Yes, lets go by the scriptures. Every person does indeed die because of their sin, but not the Messiah… He was innocent . . . without guilt . . . without sin. "But He had done no wrong, and he had never spoken an evil word." ~ Isaiah 53:9 This is why his death was accepted as a sacrifice for the sin.
Guest end3 Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 IH, it helps me to know the mechanics or steps of a process.....so I know it as truth and am able to explain it better. Ironhorse, let me translate for you. End3 is saying that he can't "just believe". He needs to know how it all works, because he's tried for years to make it work, and he just can't. He can't explain Christianity to people without offering some kind of proof anymore. He has to know it's true so he can shove it our faces with something more than the Bono lyrics and easy believism that you offer, so what else do you have? I only shove it when I feel bad. I'm working on that..lol. Not sure God would want me to use a Godstick to beat people. Will have to plead my case before my stint in hell.
Justus Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 The "OT" also makes clear that God abhors human sacrifice. But the "wonderful" part of Ironhorse's story is human sacrifice. It is written so that you could see what he saw down by the seashore and not what they did at the river
bornagainathiest Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 God has already done everything. "It is finished." No need for another explanation. Why mess with such a simple and wonderful story? What Ironhorse thinks God has "done/finished" is not biblical. The "OT" is clear that one person cannot die for the sins of another. http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation1.html The "story", then, is simple only when you ditch big parts of the scriptures that are supposed to convey the story. The "OT" also makes clear that God abhors human sacrifice. But the "wonderful" part of Ironhorse's story is human sacrifice. So, fail. Again. from the link: …we must still go by what the Bible states, and the Bible states, in no uncertain terms, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' Yes, lets go by the scriptures. Every person does indeed die because of their sin, but not the Messiah… He was innocent . . . without guilt . . . without sin. "But He had done no wrong, and he had never spoken an evil word." ~ Isaiah 53:9 This is why his death was accepted as a sacrifice for the sin. Shouldn't you be working on your second skeptical appraisal of your faith, Ironhorse? Or is that one now shelved until you start on your third?
bornagainathiest Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 The "OT" also makes clear that God abhors human sacrifice. But the "wonderful" part of Ironhorse's story is human sacrifice. It is written so that you could see what he saw down by the seashore and not what they did at the river Please hold to your agreement with me, Justus. . . . http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/71678-unrepentant-baptist-liar-for-jesus-six-years-on-and-still-lying/page-2#.VtiOqvmLRD8 When I wrote, "Let's do this properly", you agreed by responding with, "Fair enough." So please answer my question... properly. With a Yes or a No. . . . I'm still waiting for you to hold up your end of our agreement, Justus.
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 3, 2016 Super Moderator Posted March 3, 2016 God has already done everything. "It is finished." No need for another explanation. Why mess with such a simple and wonderful story? What Ironhorse thinks God has "done/finished" is not biblical. The "OT" is clear that one person cannot die for the sins of another. http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation1.html The "story", then, is simple only when you ditch big parts of the scriptures that are supposed to convey the story. The "OT" also makes clear that God abhors human sacrifice. But the "wonderful" part of Ironhorse's story is human sacrifice. So, fail. Again. from the link: …we must still go by what the Bible states, and the Bible states, in no uncertain terms, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' Yes, lets go by the scriptures. Every person does indeed die because of their sin, but not the Messiah… He was innocent . . . without guilt . . . without sin. "But He had done no wrong, and he had never spoken an evil word." ~ Isaiah 53:9 This is why his death was accepted as a sacrifice for the sin. If you believe in the Genesis account, no one dies because of their own sin. Everyone dies because of the sin of Adam and Eve. They are responsible for the wages of sin being death. If only there had been an omnipotent god around who could have explained this to them...
bornagainathiest Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 IH, it helps me to know the mechanics or steps of a process.....so I know it as truth and am able to explain it better. Ironhorse, let me translate for you. End3 is saying that he can't "just believe". He needs to know how it all works, because he's tried for years to make it work, and he just can't. He can't explain Christianity to people without offering some kind of proof anymore. He has to know it's true so he can shove it our faces with something more than the Bono lyrics and easy believism that you offer, so what else do you have? I only shove it when I feel bad. I'm working on that..lol. Not sure God would want me to use a Godstick to beat people. Will have to plead my case before my stint in hell. In all seriousness, End. You shouldn't be so flippant about this. Matthew 3 : 10. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Matthew 7 : 19. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Luke 13 : 6 - 9. 6 Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’ 8 “‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’” John 15 : 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. . . . I'm using the Godstick to beat you (again!) End, because it seems that you only respond to a beating. "Starting to think that the things we so adamantly resist is where our fears reside. I guess a good therapist brings those things out through trust, but I'm occasionally thankful for those that beat it out of me as well." When something's freely offered to you (either from God or from me) you do nothing with it... or worse, you treat it with contempt. Eventually God will take back his offer and swing the ax, cutting you off from him. As for myself, I'll make the offer to you once more and if you do nothing, I'll withdraw it. http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/71611-what-should-we-expect-during-a-time-of-grace/page-13#.VtiUO_mLRD8 See # 254. The offer stands. But not for much longer.
rjn Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 Will have to plead my case before my stint in hell. What do you mean by that End3? Btw, isn't it wonderful that the entire trio is present in this thread? That seems to be a rare occurence, even in the Den.
bornagainathiest Posted March 3, 2016 Posted March 3, 2016 Will have to plead my case before my stint in hell. What do you mean by that End3? Btw, isn't it wonderful that the entire trio is present in this thread? That seems to be a rare occurence, even in the Den. What does End mean by pleading his case before God and enduring a stint in hell, rjn? Probably anything he can think of to avoid dealing with the finality of being cut off by God forever. Which, in earthly as well as eternal terms, means anything he can think of to avoid dealing the poison and filth inside him. As the Prof's already observed, anything... ANYTHING at all... except facing up to the awful reality of what he really is. Even deluding himself that he can spend a stint in hell and then leave than place.
♦ ficino ♦ Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 God has already done everything. "It is finished." No need for another explanation. Why mess with such a simple and wonderful story? hat Ironhorse thinks God has "done/finished" is not biblical. The "OT" is clear that one person cannot die for the sins of another. http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation1.html The "story", then, is simple only when you ditch big parts of the scriptures that are supposed to convey the story. The "OT" also makes clear that God abhors human sacrifice. But the "wonderful" part of Ironhorse's story is human sacrifice. So, fail. Again. from the link: …we must still go by what the Bible states, and the Bible states, in no uncertain terms, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' Yes, lets go by the scriptures. Every person does indeed die because of their sin, but not the Messiah… He was innocent . . . without guilt . . . without sin. "But He had done no wrong, and he had never spoken an evil word." ~ Isaiah 53:9 This is why his death was accepted as a sacrifice for the sin. Another fail. Everyone shall be put to death for his own sin. So, Ironhorse, according to Ezekiel, you have to be put to death for your own sin. The Messiah's righteousness is irrelevant. To harmonize all this shit, you have to decide which verses to ignore, so as to privilege other verses. That's your game, and you can play it. For everyone else, game over. Time to hit the pub. 1
Guest end3 Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Will have to plead my case before my stint in hell. What do you mean by that End3? Btw, isn't it wonderful that the entire trio is present in this thread? That seems to be a rare occurence, even in the Den. What does End mean by pleading his case before God and enduring a stint in hell, rjn? Probably anything he can think of to avoid dealing with the finality of being cut off by God forever. Which, in earthly as well as eternal terms, means anything he can think of to avoid dealing the poison and filth inside him. As the Prof's already observed, anything... ANYTHING at all... except facing up to the awful reality of what he really is. Even deluding himself that he can spend a stint in hell and then leave than place. That's a nasty little note BAA. Also, we might want to discuss the Holy Spirit with regard to this discussion.....kind of interesting.
bornagainathiest Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Will have to plead my case before my stint in hell. What do you mean by that End3? Btw, isn't it wonderful that the entire trio is present in this thread? That seems to be a rare occurence, even in the Den. What does End mean by pleading his case before God and enduring a stint in hell, rjn? Probably anything he can think of to avoid dealing with the finality of being cut off by God forever. Which, in earthly as well as eternal terms, means anything he can think of to avoid dealing the poison and filth inside him. As the Prof's already observed, anything... ANYTHING at all... except facing up to the awful reality of what he really is. Even deluding himself that he can spend a stint in hell and then leave than place. That's a nasty little note BAA. Also, we might want to discuss the Holy Spirit with regard to this discussion.....kind of interesting. Not nasty, End. Necessary. Hebrews 12 : 11 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. And discussing grace (which is what this thread is about) would be better than discussing the Holy Spirit. What else is grace but the free and undeserved gift of something good to someone who's done evil to the grace-giver? You didn't deserve God's grace and look what you've done with His free and undeserved gift to you. In a similar, though lesser way, you didn't deserve the grace shown to you here by StillLooking, Margee and myself. I really don't know which is worse. That you couldn't recognize the grace we showed you... ...or that you could, but refused to acknowledge it.
Guest end3 Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 I think Grace and the Holy Spirit are in unison, somewhat, because if I am remembering correctly, Christ says he will not forsake those,.... YET, the believer would have to take use of the Spirit.....NOT that the Spirit is not readily available, but that the believer places the Spirit aside. And this is precisely where Grace enters.
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 4, 2016 Super Moderator Posted March 4, 2016 I think Grace and the Holy Spirit are in unison, somewhat, because if I am remembering correctly, Christ says he will not forsake those,.... YET, the believer would have to take use of the Spirit.....NOT that the Spirit is not readily available, but that the believer places the Spirit aside. And this is precisely where Grace enters. Unless you have exhibited the initial physical evidence of the indwelling of the holy spirit, which is speaking in tongues, then, no, the holy spirit is not readily available; and it's questionable whether you have even truly received grace or not. Only The Truthtm will set you free, End3; not the other 39,999 rip-off, generic versions of it.
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 4, 2016 Super Moderator Posted March 4, 2016 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. II Timothy 3 BAA ain't being nasty toward you, End3. He's just being the instrument of god in disciplining you. You ought to be grateful over it; as he seems to be doing more to help you than jesus or the holy spirit. 1
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