Story Of An Ex-Pastor

[hockeyfan70]

Hey there everyone,

 

So I spent about an hour writing out my testimony if you will and something happened and erased it all, so I'm going to give a shorter version of it. 

 

Anyway, here we go. I have been a Christian for a really long time, was the first one in my family. I was baptized up in a murky pond in the mountains, and eventually my family started coming with me to church. I decided to go to Bible college, and it was there that I felt "God's calling on my life" and so I became a youth minister first, and then later on a worship minister. Here's the thing though. Even back then, I could tell I was way different when it came to other ministers I knew. I didn't really pray much. I was more interested in helping others outside the church rather than trying to appease people in the church. Always felt like a square peg in a round hole.

 

My first step away from the church and religion happened back in 2008. My family and I were at a church in the Midwest for three years, and I was given the opportunity to help plant a church in my home state, so I jumped at it because I felt "the calling of God." It was a disaster. It was when the economy went in the toilet. We couldn't sell our house. Our church consisted of people from my home church who were disgruntled with that church and wanted our church to be like that one was "back in the day." The senior minister's wife undermined my position at all times, and eventually we decided to leave and go back to where we had a house. I was severely pissed at God and the church because here I was making a sacrifice and had nothing to show for it except about 10,000 dollars in credit card debt buying stuff for the church plant that I was never reimbursed for. I had always been one of those people who believed that you should read books and literature of opposite viewpoints and beliefs, whether they be politics or religion or whatever, so I had already read a couple of books by Hitchens, Harris and Dawkins (who still to this day I feel if he just was a little less pretentious, could really make a huge difference, but I digress....). But before I left to go back to the Midwest, I started reading more. I found a testimony by a former pastor who had left the faith and something he said kind of always stuck with me. He said there were three factors that made him leave the church and God altogether:

 

1. A crisis that happened in his family;

2. New information that seemed to go against his belief system;

3. A lack of support and care from church.

 

So I moved back to the midwest, not knowing what I was going to do, but I ended up doing ministry again. Worship ministry. And it went ok for the first five years. Although I still felt like I didn't really belong. Like Christianity wasn't really my tribe. The worship team members I hung out with were the guys who were in bands that played in bars and clubs, those "dens of iniquity" haha. And then, about a year and a half ago, the same thing that I read about by that ex-pastor happened to me.

 

First, there was a crisis. In my case, it had to do with my brother. My family brought him to live with us from another state because he was an addict and had done severe damage to his body: kidney failure and pancreatitis. Unfortunately, he became addicted to pain medicine and one day I went to see him because he hadn't checked in for a few days and found him dead in his apartment. He had taken his own life. It was a huge blow for me and my family. And the hard thing was that although the worship ministry was supportive and encouraging as I struggled, the leadership of the church was not. After a week of grieving, I was expected to be back on stage leading again. And so week after week I was up there singing songs that I didn't believe in at the time and had to pretend that everything was ok. I had this sick feeling all the time because I didn't want to have people lose hope by being honest and telling them I didn't want to be up there; yet at the same time I didn't want to be disingenuous. I didn't really know where to draw the line between showing people your scars and bleeding all over the stage. Plus, after a week, none of the elders or my bosses asked me how I was, how they could pray for me, nothing. And then there were the awkward conversations I had with church people who were really shitty about the situation. One time, five minutes before I was to get up on stage (this was two weeks after my brother died), a lady came up to me and said "I'm so sorry about your brother. I mean, we don't even know where he is right now. Because he killed himself and didn't have the chance to be forgiven. You know?" No, I didn't know. And I was pissed. Barely made it through. Which leads to number 2:

 

I started reading a lot more about creation vs. evolution among other subjects. I had never been a young earth creationist; I felt that was really stupid. I've always been into science and couldn't reconcile what I knew about the age of the earth, and people telling me the earth was only 6-10,000 years old. So even back in the day I called myself an old earth creationist. And then at some point I became a theistic evolutionist. But of course I couldn't tell people that, because I would be crucified as a church staff member. I started reading books by Bart Ehrmann and then the refutations of his books by Christian authors. I watched the debate between Ken Ham and Bill Nye and couldn't believe that people could believe the crap that Ham was spewing out of his mouth. I started looking at all this mounting evidence; but not only that, but as I read story after story of really crappy things that Christians and other religion adherents had done and were doing. All of this led to number 3:

 

On the anniversary of my brother's suicide, I was fired. Now I'm sure that if they had kept up with me and had asked me how I was doing, they would have known that it was the same day, but they didn't give a crap. They felt bad after it happened, being the same day, but it didn't matter. They decided I couldn't take "the worship ministry to the next level." Of course, they didn't understand how I felt every Sunday - empty and soulless, going through the motions. I wrote the elders a letter and met with them. I gave them both barrels of how they had mistreated me and my family. I have a jr. higher and not once did the youth minister ask them how they were doing with all of this. No one came to my wife and asked how she was doing. They were apologetic but it didn't matter. I stayed on for three months. You see, that's how it works in the church world. They don't fire you, they let you resign so you can have a good reference for your next ministry. As long as you don't badmouth the church. I took the high road even though I was seething inside and even though the elders never said another word to me (one did, I guess). It created awkward conversations with worship team members and church people, because they didn't know I was fired; they just thought I was resigning. "Where are you going next?" they would ask. "Don't know." "But, why would you resign before having your next ministry?....wait....ummmm." awkward!

 

I started down the road of finding another ministry. But I'm older now and churches are hiring dudes right out of college who like wearing skinny jeans and scarves, so although I got far with a couple of them, it never worked out. Plus there were a couple where I just got skeezed out by because they would ask me really weird theological questions that I would have to basically lie about because I knew if I really told them what I thought, they wouldn't hire me. (One of my big pet peeves about churches is the way women are treated. I've always been egalitarian, which means that women should be able to do whatever a man can do in the church. 99 percent of church leaders are complementarian, which means women can bake cookies and look pretty but don't give them leadership jobs.) So I sat down with my wife one day and said "I can't do it anymore. I can't do ministry, I can't do church, and I don't think I can do God, at least right now." My wife has been gracious to me. I think she's a little worried about this direction, because obviously ministry has been my entire career and now I have to do something else. And church leadership pretty much gets you squatticus in the real world when it comes to experience and the like. I've been fighting human trafficking for the last several years with a couple of organizations, so my hope is to maybe get hired by a non-profit in that area or something. I still want to serve, I just want to be free from the shackles of church and religion.

 

So that's my story. I am an ex-pastor. I think it's going to take awhile for me to decompress from all of this. I hope you can all be patient with me. I like what I've seen so far, but I hope you all are gentle. For those of us who have been entrenched in religion, even someone who was unconventional like me, it takes some time. One thing that helps (hurts personally but helps with this) is that as a minister, when you leave a church you basically leave your support system behind. I have a few people who check in on me, but the machine just keeps rolling and they're looking for the next guy, probably someone a little more churchy than myself. So it's not like I have people trying to convince me to stay in the church. Thanks for reading. I look forward to learning from you all, and hopefully (I'm sure there are other ex-pastors on here like me) I can teach you a thing or two about Christianity.

[qadeshet]

Welcome to Ex-C. Glad you've joined us.

[Travi]

Welcome to the forums! There is a man on the main blog named XPDan that you may want to look up. He too, is an ex-pastor and a great person in general (Not saying there aren't any on the forums here, because this is a good bunch as well). He's shown me a lot of insight through his posts and comments. I ministered for five years, but we can always learn more about the fairy tale that consumed us for so long.

Hope to see you around.

[Geezer]

Ain't Xianity grand & aren't Xians wonderful, loving, forgiving, & gracious folk? I'm sure Jesus is proud of his flock. Welcome to sanity & reality.

[hockeyfan70]

Thanks, everyone.  

 

And I wanted to post in a topic but it was locked. Does that happen a lot? It was about music to listen to when you are deconversioning from Christianity.

 

So I guess I'll post mine here. I've been listening to David Bazan's "Curse Your Branches" nonstop. If you don't know who that is, he was the frontman for a popular emo-ish band called Pedro the Lion. He was a Christian until a few years ago, and this album is about his struggles with faith. It's so good.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Welcome! Glad to hear that you are escaping into something real. Your work in the human trafficking area is very much needed. I hope you find a job that compensates you also.

 

Church politics was an eye-opener for me, though that wasn't what lead me to deconvert. But the money, manipulation, cover-ups, gossip, always hiring business execs as elders, excluding parishioners from information, fear, authoritarianism, and all the christianese phrases to make it sound biblical and acceptable... Grrrr!

 

Not sure why so many forum threads are being locked now. It seems to be a new approach after a certain amount of inactivity. One of the mods will probably explain.

[rjn]

Welcome to ex-C!

 

Threads get locked after 30 days of inactivity, in case you wondered.

[AxHakker]

I'm sorry to hear about your brother. I hope you have found some peace and closure with what happened. I'm glad you were smart enough to escape that church situation rather than be swayed by the negativity and bury it under the rug for the sake of faith. I imagine itthe conversion is much more of an impact when you've been a pastor and directly involved in ministry. Best of luck to you. Btw, I'm also a huge hockey fan, whose your team?

[Margee]

Hey there everyone,

 

I was severely pissed at God and the church.... 

 

On the anniversary of my brother's suicide, I was fired. 

 

So that's my story. I am an ex-pastor. 

Welcome to Ex hockeyfan70. Thanks for sharing your story with us. I'm so sorry for what you've been through. I'm very sorry to hear about your dear brother. I am sad for you because I know it must be very hard to start all over again. But I am glad that you stopped preaching the foolishness of the ancient book they call the bible which is supposed to be 'the words right out of god's mouth'.......

 

I completely relate to being pissed off at the invisible christian god. You've come to the right web-site. You have found like minded people.

 

 I'm looking forward to hearing more from you. Good luck on this new journey. We are all here for you my friend.

 

(hug)

[hockeyfan70]

I'm sorry to hear about your brother. I hope you have found some peace and closure with what happened. I'm glad you were smart enough to escape that church situation rather than be swayed by the negativity and bury it under the rug for the sake of faith. I imagine itthe conversion is much more of an impact when you've been a pastor and directly involved in ministry. Best of luck to you. Btw, I'm also a huge hockey fan, whose your team?

 

Thanks, AxHakker. It has been really rough. But my family is soldiering on.

 

In the NHL, I grew up a Philadelphia Flyers fan because we didn't have the NHL except for a few years with the Colorado Rockies (who became the New Jersey Devils). When the Avalanche came to Colorado, I became a fan of them and have ever since.

 

As far as college hockey, Denver University is my team.

[hockeyfan70]

Welcome to ex-C!

 

Threads get locked after 30 days of inactivity, in case you wondered.

Thanks for the info! I did wonder. I guess it makes sense. 

[hockeyfan70]

Welcome to the forums! There is a man on the main blog named XPDan that you may want to look up. He too, is an ex-pastor and a great person in general (Not saying there aren't any on the forums here, because this is a good bunch as well). He's shown me a lot of insight through his posts and comments. I ministered for five years, but we can always learn more about the fairy tale that consumed us for so long.

 

Hope to see you around.

Thanks for the info! It's not the author dude is it? Dan Barker I think his name is?

[hockeyfan70]

 

Hey there everyone,

 

I was severely pissed at God and the church.... 

 

On the anniversary of my brother's suicide, I was fired. 

 

So that's my story. I am an ex-pastor. 

Welcome to Ex hockeyfan70. Thanks for sharing your story with us. I'm so sorry for what you've been through. I'm very sorry to hear about your dear brother. I am sad for you because I know it must be very hard to start all over again. But I am glad that you stopped preaching the foolishness of the ancient book they call the bible which is supposed to be 'the words right out of god's mouth'.......

 

I completely relate to being pissed off at the invisible christian god. You've come to the right web-site. You have found like minded people.

 

 I'm looking forward to hearing more from you. Good luck on this new journey. We are all here for you my friend.

 

(hug)

 

 

It is definitely hard. But that's ok. It's rather freeing, you know? I don't have to worry about going somewhere and seeing someone who goes to my church. To wonder what they're thinking about. I can just be who I am without worrying about making sure I'm doing "the Christian thing."

[hockeyfan70]

I'm sure there is a thread about this, but thought I would ask it here:

 

What are the best books you have read about atheism/humanism/whateveryouwanttocallyourself? 

 

I'm reading through "Breaking the Spell" by Daniel Dennett and it is really good. It's basically explaining why some people turn to religion from a naturalistic/evolutionistic approach.

[rjn]

I've only read one book in the "atheist genre", and that's Christopher Hitchen's "God is not great". It was decent, I guess.

 

I'm also a bit of a hockey fan, but I'm hardly fanatic about it. I mostly watch the World Cup (and ofc, the Olympics) though, and every once in a while, the Swedish Hockey League. For some reason, I've got a bit of a soft spot for the Red Wings. Maybe because they're full of great Scandinavian players, don't know really.

[hockeyfan70]

I like Hitchens a lot. Even before now. Dawkins comes across as a smug prick. Hitchens is confident in his writing, but he also had friends who were Christians as well. 

 

I don't mind the Red Wings now, but back in the day they were huge rivals with the Avalanche. Those were some great years.

[rjn]

I agree on Dawkins, but I must say my view of him has softened a bit. As for the Avalanches... perhaps they're the ones I should root for. They're a good team, and I happen to like Colorado. It's on the top of my bucket list to visit the place if I decide to go over seas.

[hockeyfan70]

I agree on Dawkins, but I must say my view of him has softened a bit. As for the Avalanches... perhaps they're the ones I should root for. They're a good team, and I happen to like Colorado. It's on the top of my bucket list to visit the place if I decide to go over seas.

They are a fun team to watch, but very frustrating. They are pretty young, so they make a lot of mistakes. But watching Duchene, Landeskog and MacKinnon grow up and be hockey men is pretty exciting.

[TABA]

Hi hockeyfan70, and welcome!  I'm glad you're here.  I just posted my own story very recently.  I'm very sorry about your brother; I hope the passing of time will ease the pain. 

 

As well as Dan Barker, there are some other ex-ministers that I think you might appreciate knowing, although I don't know if they are members here (they should be!).  The better known is John W Loftus, who has written several books, including the story of his deconversion.  He has a blog at http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/ and is on Twitter @loftusjohnw.   Another is John Leone, known on Twitter as 'Anakin' @alpha5169.  I don't think he has been published, but I like him because he shares my more-or-less Libertarian philosophy.

 

Are you familiar with Sam Harris?  He is often linked to Hitchens and Dawkins but comes across as more likeable, IMO.  He does a really good podcast, "Waking Up with Sam Harris".

 

Anyway, welcome again.  I'm looking forward to hearing more from you!

[hockeyfan70]

Hi hockeyfan70, and welcome!  I'm glad you're here.  I just posted my own story very recently.  I'm very sorry about your brother; I hope the passing of time will ease the pain. 

 

As well as Dan Barker, there are some other ex-ministers that I think you might appreciate knowing, although I don't know if they are members here (they should be!).  The better known is John W Loftus, who has written several books, including the story of his deconversion.  He has a blog at http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/ and is on Twitter @loftusjohnw.   Another is John Leone, known on Twitter as 'Anakin' @alpha5169.  I don't think he has been published, but I like him because he shares my more-or-less Libertarian philosophy.

 

Are you familiar with Sam Harris?  He is often linked to Hitchens and Dawkins but comes across as more likeable, IMO.  He does a really good podcast, "Waking Up with Sam Harris".

 

Anyway, welcome again.  I'm looking forward to hearing more from you!

Thanks, ThereAndBackAgain! I think John was the guy I was talking about where I read his testimony and he talked about the three main things that made him step away. He went to a similar school (same non-denominational denomination) as mine. I had some discussions with him back in 2008. I read some of his stuff and like what he has to say; unfortunately from what I've read recently there seems to be an arrogance that I find unsettling. Maybe it's just my impression from the last few things I've read. Like when he had an interview with some famous atheist and he kind of called him out on some things. Rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I've read a couple of Harris' books and really enjoyed them. My brother told me about Waking Up, I need to check it out! Thanks!

[hockeyfan70]

And, the hits keep coming. I found out today that for sure I will not be getting unemployment during my job search. This is because churches and non-profit organizations do not have to pay unemployment. They are exempt from doing so, and although some denominations set aside money in the event of letting a pastor go, my church was nondenominational and therefore, no unemployment for me.

 

http://ministryworks.com/resources/can-church-employees-collect-unemployment/

[TABA]

hockeyfan70, are you familiar with The Clergy Project? They exist to help courageous guys like you in making the transition, with career resources, moral support and, I think, hardship grants, though I'm sure they're underfunded. www.clergyproject.org

[hockeyfan70]

No, I haven't! I'm going to check it out now. Thanks!

[born1ce]

Hi, thanks for sharing your story...I'm sorry about what happened to you...if I had never been to church, I might not ever have started doubting, but it's church people like you're talking about that make you realize something isn't quite right. I hope you find a new career that you like (kudos to you for fighting human trafficking!). Have you thought of being a writer (at least part time blog or something) because you write very well:) 

[Tsathoggua]

Wow, that is quite a story! Sorry about your brother. I'm glad that you made it "out"! Looking forward to hearing more from you. Welcome aboard!