Thoughts On Homosexuality...

[Brother Jeff]

Bless the Lard, my brothers and sisters in Kryasst! Just posted this to Facebook, and thought I would share it here too. Glory!

 

Just thinking about how much I've grown as a person since I walked away from the Christian faith 16 years ago, after I realized that it and the Bible weren't actually true.

 

When I was a Christian, I was taught to hate gays. I heard hatred and judgment preached from the pulpit frequently, not necessarily from my pastors, but from prominent pastors in larger churches and on TV. I was taught that homosexuality was a choice and that homosexual people had been molested as children, which is what made them gay. Of course, I heard other ignorant things as well from ignorant, misinformed Christians. And, of course, I believed that homosexuals were destined to burn in Hell forever, and as much as it shocks and saddens me that I could have ever thought in such a way, I believed that homosexuality was a sick and heinous sin, and that God was justified in damning them for eternity.

 

When I lived in Amarillo, TX in 1999, I had a gay neighbor. We happened to pass each other in the parking lot one day and I struck up a conversation with him. Of course, I steered the conversation to religion, and I actually asked the guy when he had been molested! (still makes me cringe now, 17 years later...). I'm probably lucky the guy didn't deck my ignorant, bigoted ass and walk away...

 

These days I am so much more educated and so much more tolerant of others who think and live differently than I do!

 

For the record, homosexuality is NOT a choice, and it is NOT caused by being molested as a child.

 

Over the years, I've met several gay folks, and I have friends now who happen to be gay. I've got friends here on Facebook who are gay. I've got friends on the ex-Christian.net forums who are gay. I've got friends at NAMI who are gay. I love every single one of them! The fact that they are gay doesn't bother me one bit!

 

When I was a teenager, I knew a guy named Jimmy. He was a friend of my mom's and he often tended bar at her business parties. He was a great guy, and he would sometimes let me have a drink, though at the time I was underage. He was a good guy, and I was sad when I learned that he had died from AIDS.

 

Do I think Jimmy or anyone else who happens to be gay deserves to be barbecued forever? Of course not!!

 

All of that said, does the thought of having sex with another man disgust me? Yes, honestly, it does. But that's because I'm not gay.

 

I am not going to tag my gay friends here and call them out that way, though I'm sure most of them are open about their sexual orientation. But know that I love you as the awesome people you are, and that I would never judge you negatively for being born gay.

 

The hatred and judgment I hear coming from Christians concerning homosexuality is a HUGE turnoff for me. It makes me sick to think that I was taught to hate an entire group of people by an institution I once trusted. Every time I hear Christians preach hatred and judgment, it disgusts me! Every time I hear pastors calling for gays to be murdered or otherwise mistreated, I feel disgusted that I was ever a part of such a hateful religion.

 

Just FYI, Jesus never said a single word about homosexuality. But the Bible does condemn eating shellfish and wearing clothes made of mixed fabrics just a strongly as it does homosexuality. Yet you never hear either of those condemned in church. Christians eat shellfish all the time and they wear clothes made of mixed fabrics every day. And they don't give either a second thought. But homosexuality? Let's hate them, condemn them, beat them, murder them, and wholeheartedly approve as God burns them in Hell forever!

 

I think I've made my point. It disgusts me now that I was ever a part of a religion that teaches the hatred and condemnation of others, whether that's homosexuals or people of different faiths, who of course Christians also happily condemn to Hell.

 

I have to admit that writing this post has stirred up my emotions, but it should! I was sold a bill of goods when I was 19 years old, and I had 15 years of my younger life stolen from me by a CULT that taught me to hate and judge others -- a CULT that taught me that God was going to condemn and barbecue everyone who believed differently than I did. I didn't get FREE until I was 34 years old, and there is no way in hell I would ever go back to such beliefs. I LOVE and ACCEPT absolutely EVERYBODY, regardless of what they believe and regardless of who they love. That includes people of every faith and people of no faith at all. And it includes homosexual folks and transgender folks. It doesn't matter. We are all HUMAN, and we all deserve to be loved and accepted.

 

Enough said. My 2 cents...

[rjn]

If people turned gay due to sexual abuse, how could they be held personally responsible for it? Why condemn people for someone else's wrongdoing? Fundies have the dumbest explanations for things and nothing they say add up, nor is it consistent with what they preach. What a bunch of assholes.

[Lilith666]

rjn stole my comment. Why would they tell you that molestation causes gayness, and then say that god punishes people for what happened to them? I would think that believing someone had been abused would inspire compassion instead of hatred, regardless of how ridiculous the belief is that sexual abuse makes people gay.

 

How did they come up with the idea that being abused turns people gay? Wouldn't it make more sense to think that the trauma would make them straight (if, say, a boy was molested by a man)?

[Storm]

How did they come up with the idea that being abused turns people gay? Wouldn't it make more sense to think that the trauma would make them straight (if, say, a boy was molested by a man)?

I am not sure that its the abuse that turns them gay, but abuse can create newly learned behaviors (Conditioned Responses). I once met a guy at an "Every Man's Battle" conference and we had a great conversation about his "struggle" with being aroused by men. He essentially shared with me that he doesn't want to be aroused by men, but that he was molested over a period of time by a school teacher (gym) and due to this molestation, his brain began to adapt to the situation. He admitted to me that, while he was very uncomfortable with what was happening to him by this teacher, he told me that it felt good on some level and he became accustomed to the abuse, and his brain began associating sexual pleasure from men. After all the abuse, he told me that (at the time of the conversation) he can only be aroused by men. It was during those formative years for him during his adolescence that he became conditioned to receive pleasure form a male. This conditioning began to affect him more as he grew older.

 

This might be controversial, maybe not, but I have come to believe that there are some people who are naturally homosexual, however, I also believe that there are people who have chosen to become homosexual, and I believe that some people became conditioned to it and are, not by their own choice, but by circumstances that took them that direction. 

 

In some ways, homosexuality is like addiction. No one chooses to become an addict, but through a series of many choices (some voluntary, some not), biological responses, and social influences, things started going in that direction. There are all sorts of reasons why people make the choices they do. We are all influenced by our biology, our thinking and those who we hang around with. This creates a biopsychosocial reality that we live in, and it allows us to be influenced as such. The human brain is such a complex organ and the ways that we think and act are very complicated as well.

 

But through it all, since I left Christianity, I have come to accept that people have the right to live as they want. If they are homosexual (natural or not) then they have the right to live their lives just as freely as I do my own. I have no right to dictate what they should or shouldn't do with their lives. if they want to try to change, more power to them. If they don't, then best wishes. We are all in this together. No need to live life at odds with anyone.

[hockeyfan70]

I have a friend from college who just recently announced he was gay. He's getting his Doctor of Ministry and works for a very well known Christian author now. He had a really good point on a podcast by Michael Gungor who is a Christian (and amazing musician) but one of the good guys.

 

He talked about how the passages in Scripture are rather flimsy when trying to speak out against homosexuality but then he talked about how god sometimes "bends the rules" if you will because of his desire to have a relationship with people. He uses the example of divorce in the Bible. It's pretty clear that God hates divorce. And if someone gets a divorce except in cases of adultery, the consequences are pretty severe. But yet in the church people have a more relaxed attitude toward divorce, especially in modern days. At the church I was at before getting fired, there were two elders who had been divorced. So he wondered if perhaps further down the road in the church there would be more accepting of homosexuality, especially since those verses are ambiguous.

 

Plus, when we were discussing this in a staff meeting (which at the end our leaders made a declaration that the ministers would not marry a gay couple....ugh), Genesis 2 was brought up which says "a man will leave father and mother and be united with his wife..." and how because it says wife, it means one man and one woman (in the context of "it doesn't say two men or two women). I took that passage and showed how yes, it says that. But then just a few chapters later you have Abraham with a wife (Sarah) and Sarah's handmaid (Hagar), who supposedly then bears Ishmael and the world goes downhill from there. And then you have Jacob and he has multiple wives and concubines. And then David with several wives. And then of course Solomon who has 300 wives and 700 concubines (what the hell? who would want that haha). So did god continue to work through that person? Yes. Were they excluded from the tabernacle/temple/whatever? No. Yet we treat homosexuality different. Why? I think it's basically because for most of us, it just seems unnatural. We say "a sin is a sin" but there is a hierarchy and for the average American evangelical, being gay is way up there on the list.

[ConsiderTheSource]

Way too much obsessing on our gay sons and daughters.  They do not do anything to harm anyone in any way.   Leave them be.

[Geezer]

It would seem same sex attraction is the result of a genetic anomaly. Clearly homosexuality isn't a choice & if it isn't a choice then people would seemingly have to be born with an attraction to the same sex.

[Lilith666]

I've read it's a combination of genes and environment. The environment can "turn on" latent genes and activate them when they wouldn't have been otherwise. It would be interesting to know what influences besides genes affect sexual orientation and to what extent, but as far as I'm concerned, only for curiosity and not worrying about whether being gay is bad/a choice. I used to worry that I chose being gay, and then figured it doesn't matter if it's a decision for anybody or not. As long as it's not hurting them or anyone else, which it doesn't, whether something was "chosen" is irrelevant.

[Mike D]

Sexual attraction is a very personal thing.

I know two straight guys, one like's BBW's the other likes MILF's. The BBW guy isn't remotely attracted to women over 30 and the MILF guy would rather be alone the rest of his life then be with a bigger woman. 

 

I see homosexuality as the same type of personal attraction.  I always considered myself gay, but there's only about 10% of the male population I am attracted to.  And the one love of my life turned out to be a female.  How can I explain that?  I can't.  I go with what feels natural to me, that's about all I can do.

 

Unfortunately religion's version of sexuality was written in the bronze ages with little understanding of the topic beyond a man and a woman fucking for the sake of procreation.  Human sexuality isn't that simple.... just look at all the variation in heterosexual-only sex and that in itself should be enough evidence that what's "natural" to one heterosexual couple is an abomination to another.

[sdelsolray]

My thoughts on sexuality (which includes homosexuality) is quite simple.  

 

When it involves other persons, it's none of my business.  When it involves me or my sexual partner(s), it is none of your business.

 

Isn't the right to privacy great?

[RagingMasterChief]

My thoughts on sexuality (which includes homosexuality) is quite simple.  

 

When it involves other persons, it's none of my business.  When it involves me or my sexual partner(s), it is none of your business.

 

Isn't the right to privacy great?

Yes it is. Also Hate preached from the pulpit is devoid of love, plus what I may not like doesn't mean someone else can't have it.

[florduh]

Straight or Gay presents a false dichotomy.

[UBFree4all]

Well said Brother Jeff.

[VacuumFlux]

I've read it's a combination of genes and environment. The environment can "turn on" latent genes and activate them when they wouldn't have been otherwise. It would be interesting to know what influences besides genes affect sexual orientation and to what extent, but as far as I'm concerned, only for curiosity and not worrying about whether being gay is bad/a choice.

 

Pre-natal hormones are an interesting one. Boys who have older brothers are more likely to be gay, because the mother's body produces a different set of hormones. I was surprised by that one when I first learned about it, because that means that it be true both that it's environmental not genetic, and that you were born that way.

[rjn]

My personal opinion have always been this: I don't care. Literally, I don't give a damn what gender a person is attracted to, at all.

 

However, with that said, I'm still somewhat critical of some aspects of gay culture, namely, the obsession with sex, sex, and then some more sex. Call me a prude, but I don't think it helps the overall impression people get of gay people in general if some of them appear to be nothing else than sexual maniacs. Of course, I don't think gay people (or lesbian, or bi-sexual or whatever) need to have an "image" at all, to me, they're just people. Heterosexual LGBT rights advocates as well as some LGBT people themselves have created or embraced one none the less, and I'm not sure one is even needed, or if it is beneficial for "the cause". To me, it all too often seems to confirm the prejudices of the homophobic crowd.

 

I've met quite a few homosexuals who seem to agree with me on this. Far from all gay men (whom are the ones I'm most acquainted with) fit the Hollywood stereotype of a flamboyant, cross-dressing (not that I object to cross-dressing, but you get the point I hope) manwhore. I guess what I'm trying to say, basically boils down to this: "I'm [insert sexual orientation here], big deal."

[Sybaris]

I've read it's a combination of genes and environment. The environment can "turn on" latent genes and activate them when they wouldn't have been otherwise. It would be interesting to know what influences besides genes affect sexual orientation and to what extent, but as far as I'm concerned, only for curiosity and not worrying about whether being gay is bad/a choice. I used to worry that I chose being gay, and then figured it doesn't matter if it's a decision for anybody or not. As long as it's not hurting them or anyone else, which it doesn't, whether something was "chosen" is irrelevant.

 

I wonder what the influences are with twins where one is gay and the other isn't.

 

Whenever a christard starts knocking gays in my presence I always ask them what their gods plan was with hermaphrodites. On more than one occasion the response has been, "What's a hermaphrodite?"

 

I think this whole thing of "religious freedom" legislation and having to create legislation to protect LGBT's is illustrating the depth of stupidity and ignorance in the U.S.. It says right in the Declaration of Independence that all [men] are created equal............ but then again it still took 100 years after the Civil War for blacks to receive their rights. 

 

Pathetic

[directionless]

I am amazed at how much progress has happened in the US towards accepting homosexuality since I was in high school and college in the 80s. I am embarrassed about some of my past attitudes and behaviors too. People often assumed I was gay, and I seemed to make friends with gay people without realizing they were gay, because I have always been clueless about those things. My father's business partner was gay and seemed to like me a little too much. I was insecure about sexuality, so all of that made me even more insecure. I felt that gays should stay in the closet. I was stupid even by 1980s standards, but today the climate has improved for gay people a lot. I still feel uncomfortable with gays, but now I keep my discomfort in the closet instead of expecting gays to stay in the closet

[Ro-bear]

I figure that gay people find out they are gay instead of choosing it.  Like straight people do, and, I presume, bisexual people.

[Ellinas]

I remain of the view that straight/gay is a sliding scale; none of us are 100% one or t'other, though some may be very near one of the the extremities of the scale.

 

I have very few homosexual acquaintances and only one I would count as a friend (at least as far as I know).  That's just luck of the draw, and possibly because I'm sufficiently uninterested in others' sexual preferences to take any notice as to the gender of their partners.  I don't bother announcing that I'm married to a woman, don't expect acquaintances to tell me their family set up, and don't enquire into the matter.

 

We will only get rid of prejudice based on sexuality when the issue doesn't matter any more.  Therefore, I seek to maintain a complete disinterestedness in anyone's sexuality other than my own (and Mrs E's, of course).

 

E.

[rjn]

I remain of the view that straight/gay is a sliding scale; none of us are 100% one or t'other, though some may be very near one of the the extremities of the scale.

 

I have very few homosexual acquaintances and only one I would count as a friend (at least as far as I know).  That's just luck of the draw, and possibly because I'm sufficiently uninterested in others' sexual preferences to take any notice as to the gender of their partners.  I don't bother announcing that I'm married to a woman, don't expect acquaintances to tell me their family set up, and don't enquire into the matter.

 

We will only get rid of prejudice based on sexuality when the issue doesn't matter any more.  Therefore, I seek to maintain a complete disinterestedness in anyone's sexuality other than my own (and Mrs E's, of course).

 

E.

 

This is sort of my point. No point in showcasing ones sexuality, nor hiding it for that matter: it's simply not a big deal. I understand why Pride-festivals were a big deal a few decades ago, and still is in more repressive countries, but for the most part the whole thing seems to be representative of certain LGBT sub-cultures nowadays.

[BeauCat]

 

I remain of the view that straight/gay is a sliding scale; none of us are 100% one or t'other, though some may be very near one of the the extremities of the scale.

 

I have very few homosexual acquaintances and only one I would count as a friend (at least as far as I know).  That's just luck of the draw, and possibly because I'm sufficiently uninterested in others' sexual preferences to take any notice as to the gender of their partners.  I don't bother announcing that I'm married to a woman, don't expect acquaintances to tell me their family set up, and don't enquire into the matter.

 

We will only get rid of prejudice based on sexuality when the issue doesn't matter any more.  Therefore, I seek to maintain a complete disinterestedness in anyone's sexuality other than my own (and Mrs E's, of course).

 

E.

 

This is sort of my point. No point in showcasing ones sexuality, nor hiding it for that matter: it's simply not a big deal. I understand why Pride-festivals were a big deal a few decades ago, and still is in more repressive countries, but for the most part the whole thing seems to be representative of certain LGBT sub-cultures nowadays.

 

 

It is a big deal to people who aren't heterosexual, like me. Watch an hour of television and count how many expressions of heterosexuality you see. Listen to the radio and count how many songs are about heterosexual love. Count how many LGBTQ "anything" is in your day. Lots of us feel invisible in this hetero-world, at best we're a nice afterthought. But we pay for that afterthought, because if we are included in anything media-wise everyone shouts "pandering" or "liberalism", we're a gimmick.

 

Okay, so we have bars (which are constantly being invaded by heterosexual women), a club if we're still in school, and dumb parades.

 

Besides a parade and at my once-a-month meeting, I've never been in a room with more three people who could relate to me on a romantic level. It's nice to be represented and have an excuse to meet people like myself, even if it's something as lame as a parade.

 

I bet you have a million opportunities to meet straight people in your lifetime, and a million more outlets to express your heterosexuality without it being weird, questioned, or uncomfortable.

[florduh]

Count how many LGBTQ "anything" is in your day.

 

According to statistics, 96.6% of the adult population identifies as straight. That leaves less than 4% who identify as bisexual or homosexual. It's a rather small minority.   https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/

 

Given the numbers, the LGBTQ thing is actually over represented in popular entertainment. I think this is necessary, though, in order to raise awareness. The same thing happened in the early days of the civil rights movement as it started to get traction; television and movies were inundated with black actors, biracial couples, interracial marriages and so forth. LGBTQ awareness is getting the same treatment and to the same or perhaps greater degree, even though the size of this minority is much smaller.

 

The inconvenient truth is simply that a minority is a minority.

[rjn]

It is a big deal to people who aren't heterosexual, like me. Watch an hour of television and count how many expressions of heterosexuality you see. Listen to the radio and count how many songs are about heterosexual love. Count how many LGBTQ "anything" is in your day. Lots of us feel invisible in this hetero-world, at best we're a nice afterthought. But we pay for that afterthought, because if we are included in anything media-wise everyone shouts "pandering" or "liberalism", we're a gimmick.

 

Okay, so we have bars (which are constantly being invaded by heterosexual women), a club if we're still in school, and dumb parades.

 

Besides a parade and at my once-a-month meeting, I've never been in a room with more three people who could relate to me on a romantic level. It's nice to be represented and have an excuse to meet people like myself, even if it's something as lame as a parade.

 

I bet you have a million opportunities to meet straight people in your lifetime, and a million more outlets to express your heterosexuality without it being weird, questioned, or uncomfortable.

 

 

Good point. It might be worth pointing out that I'm not American, and that LGBT-rights and tolerance is probably a lot more well established in my country than in many other places, so I might be blind to certain situations that are more common across the pond. I'm not trying to be insensitive or anything, but heterosexuality is the norm (and it probably has a lot to do with genetics), so I can't really see how it could be any different: the majority will always be over-represented.

[BeauCat]

 

Count how many LGBTQ "anything" is in your day.

 

According to statistics, 96.6% of the adult population identifies as straight. That leaves less than 4% who identify as bisexual or homosexual. It's a rather small minority.   https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/

 

Given the numbers, the LGBTQ thing is actually over represented in popular entertainment. I think this is necessary, though, in order to raise awareness. The same thing happened in the early days of the civil rights movement as it started to get traction; television and movies were inundated with black actors, biracial couples, interracial marriages and so forth. LGBTQ awareness is getting the same treatment and to the same or perhaps greater degree, even though the size of this minority is much smaller.

 

The inconvenient truth is simply that a minority is a minority.

I'm not saying a heterosexual entertainment as the majority is wrong, I'm saying the very little the LGBTQ has carved out for itself that every scrap is really important, because compared to heterosexuals we have peanuts. My whole life will be heterosexuality in my face all day every day, so when I stumble on something or someone who is finally relatable to me I don't agree that it's not important.

 

And yes, the gay white guy has always done well in Hollywood because he's a white male...and you know, theater majors. And to be fair, the LGBTQ isn't the only one who struggle with visibility in the media. Asian men take issue with being typecast as perverted, childish, undesirable dorks. Women's careers in Hollywood are extremely short, and often they "age-out" well before their male peers. But people don't freak out when an Asian or old lady is on screen and go, "ugh, I'm so sick of them" or roll their eyes, or wonder aloud if they *really* need to be in the movie, etc.

[Blood]

God hates fags. It sez so right in the Bible!

 

I think attitudes towards homosexuality "evolved" quicker than they should have in the USA because of the extreme idiocy of well-publicized Bible thumpers like the late Rev. Fred Phelps. The preachers/politicians who are still drum-beating that the apocalypse is near because girls are going down on other girls now sound hopelessly archaic and out-of-touch.