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Goodbye Jesus

Honesty With Myself.


AbsolvedOfFaith

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I was born into a fundamentalist Christian family; not the generic term we often apply to any evangelical Christian today, no. I was born into a fundamentalist Christian family that, in the midst of physically, verbally, and emotionally abusing me would remind me to be thankful I was not born earlier as any dishonoring of parents was punishable by stoning to death.

 

Today I'd have the wit to sarcastically respond by thanking them for sparing my life, but I wouldn't have dared as a little child back then. The pain train was a reality I didn't enjoy riding.

 

Mind you, the abuse worked so astoundingly well I was a model Christian my whole life and I’m certain all my Christian friends and family (which would be everyone I know outside of work) would be shocked to know I even wrote this. Hell, I’m still a virgin at age 32. Can I get a medal for that?

 

But that’s the background that I come from. I try to be humorous about it, but it was a long nightmare that I’m still trying my best to heal and forget.

 

In any event, if I were to sum up how I got to where I am now, there were three aspects I can think of:

  1. I never felt like I was a Christian in comparison with other Christians.
  2. The behavior of fellow Christians in comparison with the teachings of Jesus or the Bible as a whole.
  3. Not being afraid to learn about science. 

One of the characteristics I'm sure everyone is familiar with of being “born again” or having a relationship with Christ that’s real is that you have an emotional connection with him. You’re excited about God, the Bible, witnessing, worshipping, and walking the walk. You feel love, joy, peace, and just can’t live without him.

 

That was never me. I had absolutely zero emotional anything about God my entire life, and this is considering I’ve been a Christian since I was 4 years old and publically recommitted my life to Christ at age 11 and age 19, respectively. I remember opening my eyes during worship at church and watching all the adults, with their eyes tight shut and arms raised to heaven, and wondering, "What's wrong with me?"

 

I wanted to believe.

 

I also never heard from God, but everyone else I knew did to varying extents. I didn’t have any gifts of the spirit, either, or visions, or – well – anything supernatural at all.

 

I particularly remember two elders trying to teach me to interpret the Bible. I was told prayers to say, I'd repeat them fervently, read through a chapter, and then asked what God showed me. I'd give whatever came to mind which was, inevitably, very wrong. 

 

This caused me considerable consternation, anxiety, and doubt growing up, but during high school I had a series of traumatic events that culminated in me having my one and only “experience” hearing from God.

 

Wanting so badly to believe, I held onto that experience and used it to shore up and fortify the reality that had been beaten into me as a child.

 

Years later I have to say I wish I had one skeptic friend at the time to bounce my rationalizing off of because I’m fairly certain I would not have remained a Christian for as long as I did.

Still, all the traumatic events did develop one seed within me that was good, in a way: bitterness.

 

In and of itself, being bitter isn’t good. However, questioning the nature of life is, and so I’m going to say the ends justified the emotional means here. For the first time in my life, instead of questioning what I was doing wrong (my default response to everything), I began to question what other Christians were doing wrong.

 

I came to the conclusion (over years, mind you) that if there was indeed a truth to Christianity, there had to be true evidence of conversion. It wasn't just about how much a Christian visibly loved God. It turns out that, according to the Bible, if Christians were genuine, and if a genuine conversion happened, they would both love one another, and love their neighbor.

 

In my life, the Christians I had known were the exact opposite of this. They were backbiting, mean-spirited, abusive, manipulative, and destructive to their fellow man both inside and outside the church. For all intents and purposes, this meant either considering a large number of Christians were not Christians (which already was a small number of believers due to typical fundamentalist doctrine that only certain Christians were really Christians) or it wasn’t real to begin with.

 

I also began to pay closer attention to claims of prophetic words or other gifts of the spirit, or just simple claims of visions or words other Christians (or myself, like above) experienced. I learned everything had a rational explanation, or at the very best, was largely coincidental at best.

 

Even so, I still tried to believe. I left evangelical Christianity and bounced around between a variety of denominations, eventually landing on Roman Catholicism (of all things, I know). I never converted to a Catholic, but it was in the Catholic church that I learned it was okay to believe in evolution. That, to paraphrase one of the popes, truth cannot deny truth. 

 

So I read. I read a lot. I read Chesterton and Thomas Aquinas. I read Dawkins and Krauss. 

 

But I still wanted to believe. 

 

Progressively, slowly, and without notice something else crept up on me and finally overpowered me.

 

Due to my upbringing and experiences (sadly directly related towards Christianity) I suffer from generalized anxiety disorder, social anxiety disorder, major depressive disorder, and PTSD. However, it hasn’t been until within the past two years that I’ve been treated by medical professionals of this, and that didn’t happen until I was so far gone I could not function.

 

Long years in fundamentalism had caused me to believe psychiatry, psychology, and brain drugs were all lies and that the real source of these “disorders” was sin in someone’s life. Pastors and elders implored that I “go to Jesus” with my issues, and I did. All the time.

 

And nothing changed. In fact, I’d frequently end up with panic attacks in the process of wondering what I had done wrong. It was a downward mental spiral.

 

In the end, it turned out that Jesus was never the answer; science was, and this science in turn helped me begin unraveling the whole mad story of my life, which I’m still unraveling today.

 

I learned that the behavior of one of my parents, for example, was not driven by any spirit - good or evil - but due to personality disorders and schizophrenia that ran in her side of the family. The other driven by survival instincts to cope with the abuse they were personally experiencing in the relationship until they could no longer and left. 

 

I’ll admit I’m currently faking being a Christian. Why? Because those are the only friends and family I have, outside of work, and with my mental health issues I have a very difficult time making new friends. In a way, I still wish that I could muster belief even now, because unbelief is looking pretty isolating right now. 

 

But, at the same time, I have to stitch this rather incoherent story together as some sort of honesty to myself...to put an end to lying to myself.

 

Here's as good a place as any, I suppose.

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Welcome to freedom! I'm glad you found us. Feel free to vent all you like. Many of us have been through something similar.

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Wow. My heart goes out to you. But you are on the right track. The power of brainwashing and fear is very, very strong.

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Welcome to Ex-c. I am so sorry for what you have been through. If you read all the testimonies of the ex-christians on this site, you will see that you are not alone in this at all. Take your time because you are on a journey now to investigate a new world view and it can be very confusing. I often post this article below for new-comers because it is so important for you to see how deeply you have been brainwashed. I hope it will help.

 

You stay here and rant all you want. Once we discover that we've been lied to it will bring out a lot of anger. We are here for you. Visit this site as often as you can. (I've lived here for over 5 years and I still need everyone on this site) Read as many posts as you can. Healing will eventually come but it may take time. Take a deep breath and understand that you are 'home' now with hundreds of others who completely understand what you are going through. You may want to read a lot before you decide to 'come out' to any family members. They will not understand and only lead to more confusion for you. Sometimes, it is better to keep this secret from them for awhile. You must remember how terribly they are brainwashed. Go easy and slow. Get yourself 'fixed' first.

 

Looking forward to hearing more from you.

 

(hug)

 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html

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Hello, I read your story with great sadness and pain, as so much you experience I can resonate with.  It is not until couple days ago, I started posting in this forum.  So I am pretty new as you are.  This is a great place to share and learn. That we are not alone in our strange journey.  You will sure make new friends.

 

From what I read so far, most transition seem pretty smooth, people are happy after they walk away from their belief. 

 

Personally I must be an outliner. I am still deeply tormented from the guilt of no longer going to church, read my Bible and be one of them.  My challenge is I still believe in the same God, the Bible but I am really resentful with this God of what he does and his characters.  So I am not sure where I fit in the category of ex-Christian because I am not an atheist. Nothing change in my Christian faith except I no longer trust in God as who he is.

 

I know I have done better now as I can muster the courage to tell people what I really think about God.   Like yesterday I had lunch with couple old friends (in fact one of them is now a believer after years of us praying for him). I told him how I think about God -  as being a sadist, egoistic, narcissistic and glory obsessed.  

 

How incredibly exhilarating and liberating to no longer have to fake and speak your mind !  Heaven and Hell is the carrot and stick that kept dangling in front of me in the past many years. Now I can say I do not care anymore of your heaven. I would like the chance to tell God, before I go down to hell, to tell him how mess up he is.

 

Thank you for allowing me to rant and ramble. There just seem so much bottle up, I want to let out.

 

Here is my mini-bio

 

I was saved 40 years ago by an evangelical organization whose specialty is " born to reproduce, get your Timothy to pass it on", build strong disciples of Christ as one and only one priority in life. They take pride in their zeal and devotion in the faith by calling themselves "never dater".  Purity seems a big thing for them. Under this programming, and being naïve and gullible, I lived my college days wanting to be a full time missionary, and went to such absurd way to ensure my purity by marking on the calendar days I did bad things (reading bad magazine, impure thought and habits). Life in those so called discipleship training apartment was cult like mind control. Even when you are loaded with school work and family obligation, and tired, yet you had to pretend to be zealous and shared with others how many people you "witness" that day. or what scriptures you memorized.  I feel sick, angry and ashamed how come I could not speak up or just walk away.  I am angry at how people can be so ruthless, in the name of God, to intrude into your life ( I was just minding my own business in college) and feel it is their Godly duty to mold you into a super Christian.

 

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Hi Absolved, and welcome! You can say whatever is on your mind here, and you will get nothing but support and understanding (plus hugs from Margee!). You expressed yourself very well in your post above. You've taken what I know is a difficult step by 'coming out' even to this supportive group, but I'm sure you won't regret it. We're glad you're here!

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welcome! This site is amazing and the people here are very supportive, I'm sure it will be as helpful for you as it is for me!

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Howdy! I was firmly entrenched in the church until age 43, and was a virgin until I was married at age 34 (virginity is not recommended). We had no friends outside of church either, and at the time were not looking for any. But we found our way out about 8 years ago, started doing the things we like and met new friends. The old ones rarely interact with us now, and it isn't even an issue.

 

Good to hear that you are finding your way out, and seeing through the smokescreens and shell-games that believers live in daily to make it all seem to work. This website is a good refuge. There are also ex-pastors on here, because even those leading the congregations have lots of shelved questions and personal doubts, just like most in the congregations. We were all conned into the faith by others that presented the spiel about god's love and such, while leaving out all the nasty contradictory stuff. Here's to your new path in life!

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Thank you, everyone, for your welcome and kind words! It means a lot, especially to know I'm not alone in this journey!

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Welcome to Ex-C! Your story really had me by the heart. Even though I wasn't raised in a fundie family, I feel like I can relate to the mental problems you've been struggling with. Again, welcome, and I hope you stick around! :)

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Personally I must be an outliner. I am still deeply tormented from the guilt of no longer going to church, read my Bible and be one of them.  My challenge is I still believe in the same God, the Bible but I am really resentful with this God of what he does and his characters.  So I am not sure where I fit in the category of ex-Christian because I am not an atheist. Nothing change in my Christian faith except I no longer trust in God as who he is.

 

I know I have done better now as I can muster the courage to tell people what I really think about God.   Like yesterday I had lunch with couple old friends (in fact one of them is now a believer after years of us praying for him). I told him how I think about God -  as being a sadist, egoistic, narcissistic and glory obsessed.  

 

How incredibly exhilarating and liberating to no longer have to fake and speak your mind !  Heaven and Hell is the carrot and stick that kept dangling in front of me in the past many years. Now I can say I do not care anymore of your heaven. I would like the chance to tell God, before I go down to hell, to tell him how mess up he is.

 

Josh, you're not alone in your comments of how you would speak to God; there is a video you can find on youtube of an interview with Stephen Fry where he is asked should God exist, what would he say to him? His answer is remarkably similar to yours. 

 

And I'd even echo those same sentiments as well. 

 

Despite how earnestly faithful I had been in following God, obeying his commandments, and serving the body of Christ all I ever seemed to receive was punishment. Punishment which, according to the theology of the various churches I was in that I should be glad to receive. 

 

In any other situation in life we'd call this madness. If a husband was physically abusing his wife, it would be madness to tell her to rejoice in it. If someone were lit on fire, it would be inconceivably sadistic to require that they be joyful of it. 

 

Yet this was my Christian worldview. 

 

 

 I often post this article below for new-comers because it is so important for you to see how deeply you have been brainwashed. I hope it will help.

 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html

 

I had a chance to read through it, and thanks for this. It is important. It's scary, too. For me, knowledge of just how terribly brainwashed I was is also a cause of deep regret. I look back and I see a life lost to a meaningless cause, wasted on so, so much unnecessary suffering. Plenty a night spent ruminating about how differently things would have been if I had done X instead of Y or turned left instead of right!

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In any other situation in life we'd call this madness. If a husband was physically abusing his wife, it would be madness to tell her to rejoice in it. If someone were lit on fire, it would be inconceivably sadistic to require that they be joyful of it.

 

AOF, suffering was my main question to god. In and out of the church. Hence the 'Please Forgive Me' letter I wrote within 1 month of joining Ex. I cried the whole time I wrote it. I was devastated that the bible was all a lie.  When you read it, you'll know where most of us are when we join this site. Read the responses throughout the thread. You will see you are not alone. You are so not alone my friend. Hang tight. It gets better after the Ptsd wears off a little.

 

(hug)

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.Vwo6Z_krKUk

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It is a beautiful morning in Wash DC, blue sky, cold (a few snow fakes yesterday) but a great April morning.   Before I go for a leisure walk, I eagerly look for any new posts and so glad to so a few.  Being an ex-c can be difficult. Almost over night, I lost (willingly) all my Christian friends because I found no common ground anymore. They are all well intentioned folks want to pray for me and get me back to the wagon. Other than just couple non-judgmental ones, I pretty much have to build my circle of friends from scratch.  This forum is one of great source of encouragement.   And also around to vent and to explore why I am where I am. One big challenge I face is all the negative sentiments - anger, deep regret, sadness and emptiness in the absence of the Christian activities I on-and-off followed for the past 40 years. it hurt all the more because the prime of my life is behind me. If I become ex-c in my early 30s or 40s, I can still pick up the pieces and enjoy life.

 

But not when you are over the hill, divorced and single and facing health challenges (both physical and mental). Things looks dark and gloomy. As a starter, and this is also a question for God as well - why is it so damn difficult to find a partner. This challenge is not unique to ex-C but to the C as well. I know of many Godly C who struggle with being single.  They end doing things that is not pleasing to God to relief the sexual tension. How much I long for the feminine touch and not necessarily in intimate way but just to cuddle, the scent of a woman and an attentive word.  As one C (who also in the process of divorce) encouraged me during the painful divorce proceeding several years ago, he said " just hang tight, once you are divorced, Godly women who come out of the woodwork to meet you. Sure, this C friend ended up with another ugly divorce. I myself had 2 painful relationship and back to square 1.  We are just creature toyed by God for his amusement.

 

As like anything else the Bible promised, it seem just too good to be true. I memorized (even went the extreme of writing it down in 3 X 5 cards so I can prayer walk) all my favorite scriptures especially the wonderful promises - Matthew 6:33, Proverbs 3:5-6, Jeremiah 29:11... to name a few.  Result is a major disappointments. 

 

I get really angry nowadays when people explain the purpose of sufferings of mankind by saying " oh, this is a fallen world, suffering will make you stronger, the world is Satan's domain...and worst one is that suffering will magnify God's glory" .  I truly have to scoff at Pastor Warren's "purpose driven life" that I wasted almost 1 years studying that " it s not about us, it is about God, our suffering is secondary to ensure God gets all the glory."  

 

To remain a C, as I now conclude, you pretty much have to shut down 1/2 of your brain, ask no question, and do whatever counter to your intuition,  One simple question I ask myself " why should I trust an entity who care less about you, but want to mess you up so he can get more glory" or " Will any loving father just standing by and let the thugs torture, rape, kill and brutalize your child ? "  I started a folder to collect all those tragic events that happened to good people, good C.  The folder is rapidly expanding.

 

The This is what happened to our ancestor - Adam and Eve in Eden. God allowed the thug to enter their home, tempted them (and of course they will fall, just like we will fall in the face of temptation) and slam them big time and also for generations to come. So the explanation, we are sinner because the sin DNA pass on to us.

 

Well, I can go on but I will save some for the net post.   The beautiful weather is asking to leave the house to enjoy the walk.

 

BTW: AbsorbedofFaith - here is a link I shared in other post, a collection of very heartfelt testimonies by people like us - http://infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/ , I especially like the one by Ken Daniels, Amanda Avellone and Kendall Hobbs. Some are pretty long. They meticulously document the day by day events that eventually led to their decision.  I think you will enjoy reading it

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One more thought ..... this I do not understand and bother me as I became an ex-C. What motivates those suffering C who can still trust God and do great thing ?  I think these are issues that keep my small flame alive to continue to hope for a path to go back to God.  Back in 1976, about 2 years into my C life, I learned of this girl who had a tragic accident, broke neck and lost all function below the neck. Now she has a robust ministry helping the handicapped.

 

 I still has her biography that I managed to saved (after trashing shelves of C material).  Her name is Joni Eareckson Tada. What she quoted in her book's introduction is Corinthians 4:8-12. This scriptures has sustained my C faith all these years. How could Joni, along with other C with tragic events, not grew bitter and walk away ?   for me I wish I can be like most of you who can be happy ex-C. Until this little flame of hope in God is fully extinguished, I will continue have that linger doubt may be God has a better plan that I can not comprehend. 

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One more thought ..... this I do not understand and bother me as I became an ex-C. What motivates those suffering C who can still trust God and do great thing ?  I think these are issues that keep my small flame alive to continue to hope for a path to go back to God.  Back in 1976, about 2 years into my C life, I learned of this girl who had a tragic accident, broke neck and lost all function below the neck. Now she has a robust ministry helping the handicapped.

 

 I still has her biography that I managed to saved (after trashing shelves of C material).  Her name is Joni Eareckson Tada. What she quoted in her book's introduction is Corinthians 4:8-12. This scriptures has sustained my C faith all these years. How could Joni, along with other C with tragic events, not grew bitter and walk away ?   for me I wish I can be like most of you who can be happy ex-C. Until this little flame of hope in God is fully extinguished, I will continue have that linger doubt may be God has a better plan that I can not comprehend. 

 

josh, this was one of my 'pleas' also to god. That he would make my faith bigger, stronger so I could be like the others who seemed to make it through such horrors  and not question god? How can this be? I obviously didn't have what other christians did and this always made me feel like such a failure in the church. Probably till the day I die, I will also wonder about my failing faith. I even asked god if satan had a hold of me to help me fight him off. Why wouldn't god tell satan to take his hands off his children who wanted bigger faith????

 

 You are not alone in this.

 

(hug)

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Josh I relate... I too had a time when I fully believed in God, but I no longer believed he loved me. Instead I had come to the conclusion that he just wanted me to fight in his wars and do his dirty job, and he didn't care if I suffered greatly or even died (which I nearly just had). I had to say prayers where I told him not to approach me again, and I felt the "baby please don't go" love songs ringing through my head were him calling me back - which I couldn't do anymore. 

 

I think one reason why suffering people stay as believers is that it means their suffering is a part of a grand plan. Else it's just random sh*t that happens because people are imperfect and make bad choices and have bad luck, and that's more depressing. I wanted really, really hard for my horrible childhood (poverty, various kinds of abuse, mental illness in family, etc) to mean something - and getting prophesied over how "Father God sees your painful past" and how it was exactly my past that would make me a powerful tool of God.... well, that surely made me feel like there was something to me after all! I clung on to that really hard. Things had to really go to ruin before I stopped trusting in loving guidance, and even then, I took a year (a painful, confusing year) to become at least agnostic and end up here. This site was a tremendous help. 

 

Anyway, welcome to the forum Josh, and you too Absolved. 

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 I think one reason why suffering people stay as believers is that it means their suffering is a part of a grand plan. Else it's just random sh*t that happens because people are imperfect and make bad choices and have bad luck, and that's more depressing.

 

Oh yes, this is very much the heart of the matter I think.

 

My father divorced my mother but my mother retained full custody of me. She, with the helpful aid of a few pastors, created this "reality" where this was God's plan to save us from a man who was demon possessed. Yes, demon possessed. There were signs invoked, visions told, the whole shebang. Later, because of her total inability to hold a decent job, we were evicted and forced to move to a different city for more work opportunities. This, too, came with signs and visions. We were being sent to a new city that was very dark and evil in order to bring the light of the Lord to it, and my mother had a special calling to do just that. 

 

I'd like to say it was as simple as these were just lies created by my mother, but she truly, 100% believed all of this. And certainly, I do attribute this to her schizophrenia, but it was also held up by scriptures in the Bible, the approval of pastors, and general Christian culture. 

 

For myself, I went through stages of rationalization. At first I really did buy the whole narrative about how we're supposed to suffer "down here" just as Jesus suffered. But then, as more and more crap flew through the pipe and hit me in the face that stopped working. A big part of it was the complete and utter lack of real emotional support from the Christian community at large. Josh mentioned Joni, and I'm very familiar with her, too. She was an idol of my mother's, held up constantly as an example that I should aspire after. Well, Joni was and is a celebrity in the Christian community. She gets letters, phone calls, gifts, hugs, crying shoulders, and so forth every month. 

 

Me? I got "Go to Jesus" followed by accusations of lying, rigorous and stern lectures about alleged sin in my life, or just plain silence. 

 

So then I went from buying the narrative hook, line, and sinker to modifying it. This part I'm embarrassed to admit, but I decided that God was then using me as a beacon to test Christians in their Christianity, like some sort of modern day parable of the Good Samaritan, except I was the dude who got robbed and left for dead.

 

Thankfully, I didn't stay in self-righteous mode forever and looked to philosophy for answers. I'd say my final state of mind, prior to beginning my ride towards deconversion, had everything to do with God himself. 

 

First, I decided that God's hands had to be tied and he wasn't able to interfere with human decisions at all if free will were to truly exist. So all the bad and good had to happen and it'd all get sorted out in the end.

 

Eventually I just decided God didn't give a damn because if he was indeed all powerful that wouldn't have been an issue (plus, the Bible clearly contradicts that line of reasoning with frequent interferences in human affairs). 

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Yunea, AbsolvedofFaith, Margee - you made my day.  This is the best dialogue I had for months.  I do not think we will truly know God for sure, or as some of us decided there is no God.  One thing I have no doubt in is we are created by some powerful entity. A beautiful BMW (or any cheap car) can not by itself come together, a watch or as simple a few stones to form a crude pattern has to be from some design.  So it is a no brainer for me to know I am created. That is the easy part. But all the mess around, for every ex-c's horror experience there seems to be a C's peace and praise for his/her agony. I think life is one long journey, searching for the truth, the peace and joy.

 

My way of moving on is try to compartmentize all my negative sentiments, not to let that get in my positive thinking. Simply aim to be a better person (that may not be good enough to God, but I do not care), give your fellow metro rider a smile, be generous, do volunteer work, be kind to people around you.  And enjoy life. Every little thing can bring us joy if we take time to enjoy. Today, I took a long walk, taking deep breath of the fresh air, have a nice bowl of beef noodle soup, went to Home Depot, got some flowers, planted it. Then I cleaned up my 75 gallon tanks (Angels fish, and a pair of red ear slider turtle that nip at the angel fish's fin but that is about it).  All these mundane weekend activities make me happy.  May be one of my issue is thinking too much.

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Welcome!  As everyone above says, this is a great place to get things off your chest and be honest.  It doesn't matter if you still need to fake being xian with your family and friends.  You know what you really believe or not believe, and that's all that counts.  Your mental health is the most important thing.  Feel free to ask questions and add to the conversation anywhere on this site!  It's been a wonderful place of learning for me!

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Hi Margee,   I finally read your " Please forgive me" letter.  It is one of most beautiful letter to God I ever read. It might as well as my personal letter to God that echo the same pain and yearning to God. The letter deeply moved me.  It is also very assuring and comforting as I took time to read more from ex-c experiences that there are people like me who truly once loved God and decide it is time to move on (to what and where, these I yet to be determined).  As I read your letter, somehow another C came to mind " Mother Teresa " whose biography I read about her " Dark night of the soul" that after her initial vision and connection with God, then for the rest of her life, she pretty much lived in spiritual  isolation without ever communicating with God again. Somehow she is able to live such remarkable life to help people. Of course I will not be able to read Mother Teresa's mind. Did she curse God ?

 

I wonder how well you are doing in terms of full separation from God, are you now fully convinced there is no God ?  or is God still part of your life but you found a way to keep him from your  conscience ?   To me, you have a real relationship with God for 30 + years.  How is it possible to take God out after all this years.  To me as the Bible always use marriage as a metaphor of our relationship with Jesus, personally I was "married to Jesus" and it is impossible to just walk away without keep going back to the time when once I think I was deeply in love with Jesus. Looking back, I did have some very good moment with Jesus - even though not that many.  In 1975, after I said the sinner's prayer, I did enjoy the fellowship (minus those high pressure, awkward cold truly witnessing) that a group of us shared and pray.  One evening, I fondly recall the team spent the New year eve, bowed our head (some chose to fall on their knee) and we prayed for a good hour to God in silence.  It was like moment like now (1:24am in the morning), so quiet and peaceful that I could say I sense the presence of God, or those church retreat, in the last day, folks shared what they learned, and without exception several seekers stood up and some emotionally cried and accept Jesus as their savor. The rest of us then sang songs and rejoice. It was very joyful moment for me. The feeling was real, there is love there - what I still feel as my love moment with God.  Those hymns, so intoxicating, I still choked up as I heard the song " seek ye first", or the song I used to sing when I was a Christian " it only take a spark". That was me as the young Christian falling in love, my first love.

 

I started a journal in 2007 (year I separated to begin the divorce proceeding". the lawyer asked me to keep a daily journal for legal purpose. I end up writing it as a book of my life. I devote a good section of the journal in documenting my spiritual journey, year by year from the time I was in Christian grade school, catholic high school, my receiving Christ in Sept 1975 and there ups and down in the journey.  I try to understand what went so terribly wrong in my relationship with God. I blamed my self because of the sins I committed, mostly in the area of impurity, hypocrisy and selfishness. Like King David who commit bad things, I asked for God's forgiveness. Psalm is my favorite book that express so eloquently express the sentiment of a sinner. Up to this day, I am still convinced the reason of my fallout is from my sins. That God has turned his back and delivered me to the destruction for the sins I committed.  2012 marked the real fall out when I stopped going to church and stopped all Christian activities. It is liberating to a degree, yet without the framework of eternity, everything seems temporary.  I can enjoy material life but what next ?  As someone said - life is a march toward death, from the very moment you are born. There was something I can look forward to when I was a Christian because one day we will all in a place that we will be happy forever like Revelation 21" a new heaven and new earth".  May be what I need is a partner to make my time meaningful. I envy those who are optimistic, no worry be happy.  Something that does not come natural to me.

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" I remember opening my eyes during worship at church and watching all the adults, with their eyes tight shut and arms raised to heaven, and wondering, "What's wrong with me?"

 

Hi AbsolvedofFaith.  Upon reading this message, you should find a message from me in your inbox.

 

As everyone else here, I understand and empathize with your journey, albeit mine with the fundamentalists (a contradiction in terms, but a discussion for another time) was considerably shorter than most.

 

I remember having the same thoughts as you as well.  I remember one of the so-called worship leaders seemed to think that I wasn't "saved" because I couldn't speak in tongues.  Nevermind that they also said that everyone has their own 'separate gifts," but that's classic cherrypicking for you.  I actually read the Bible multiple times and, in addition to the glaring contradictions between the Old and New Testaments...Christians like to cherry pick their scriptures to fit their own perverted prejudices.  Which in turn manifested itself to the widespread destruction of populations and cultures throughout the world since its "legalization" in the ancient Roman Empire.  And therefore, my full and complete disdain of organized religion.

 

I should take a picture of Kylo Ren (Star Wars) on my former candle holder where I used to put spiritual candles...

 

Anyhow...welcome.  I agree with Margee...definitely see to your mental and physical health and go from there.

 

*hugs*

 

Andrew

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Thank you Andrew and Amateur. I'm feeling a particular drive to rant today, so consider this an addition to my original testimony. I guess it's not really a testimony of unbelief. Sort of like an appendix of shit that happened.

 

We'll call it the Fundamentalist Approach to (Not) Love

 

When I was a child and into my teen years, if I looked at a girl for any longer than a glance, at random, I'd spend the rest of the day being disciplined for lust. Yes, that's right. Looking at a fully clothed girl. I was whipped, restricted from something (television, friends, legos, whatever) and had to write out various verses on lust and recite them. Then there was the one time I dared to look at Jenny McCarthy in a bikini online (this was way long ago, late 90's). Hooooo boy. I got to watch my mother go apeshit on essentially my entire toy collection. Some friends got "bad influenced" and I was verboten to ever speak with them again. My butt was sizzling. 

 

It wasn't until late college and entering the workforce that I was able to break the subconscious habit I had developed of looking at the floor when around women. 

 

And, in case you're wondering, starting at around the age of 6 I was repeatedly told I shouldn't dare go to the authorities or talk to anyone about how I was treated or else I'd be taken from them and forced to live with drug-addicted freaks or some other horrible consequence. 

 

Dating and girlfriends is a curious case. My sect was of the belief that you don't date. That's right, God miracles you a wife or a husband, just like in the Bible! You know, with Adam and his ribs, or Isaac at the well. It just happens, man.

 

There's even a pious song by the Christian band Barlow Girls about not dating. Hell I'd forgotten about them until just now writing this up.

 

Anyhow, in practice there were dates you just didn't call them dates. You were friends, but you weren't. You went out to eat together, watched movies together, sat next to each other (so daring and sexual!), but you were not dating and you weren't boyfriend/girlfriend. 

 

Fuck if I know how that works. It didn't for me. God never spoke to these girls to tell them I was The One. It only seemed to work for the pastors/elders kids or whoever the worship leader was at the time. 

 

Of course, that was for the Christian girls. It was even more awkward for the non-Christian girls. I basically had to be "professional" with them, but what fucking kid knows what that even means. I just knew they were hot, they really, really wanted me, and I couldn't say a damn word to them or look at them. 

 

I have no clue what happened to my lack of a love life after exiting college and entering the workforce. I might have given up by then. I occasionally still got taken out on actual dates by non-believers in adulthood from time to time, but that was about the extent of it all.  I don't know. Depression and all that jazz. 

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You were seriously abused as a child by trusted adults.  It's not your fault, although you have to process and heal the damage done to you by those same trusted adults.

 

One symptom/sign/indication of that healing is the ratio between how much time you spend thinking/feeling/processing about your past and how much time you spend thinking/feeling/processing about your future.  This is a measure of your present state.

 

Be patient and steadfast.  Explore hobbies.  Exercise your intellect.

 

Good luck.

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"She, with the helpful aid of a few pastors, created this "reality" where this was God's plan to save us from a man who was demon possessed. Yes, demon possessed. There were signs invoked, visions told, the whole shebang. Later, because of her total inability to hold a decent job, we were evicted and forced to move to a different city for more work opportunities. This, too, came with signs and visions. We were being sent to a new city that was very dark and evil in order to bring the light of the Lord to it, and my mother had a special calling to do just that. 


 


I'd like to say it was as simple as these were just lies created by my mother, but she truly, 100% believed all of this. And certainly, I do attribute this to her schizophrenia, but it was also held up by scriptures in the Bible, the approval of pastors, and general Christian culture. "


 


WOW Are you my long lost sibling because that sounds exactly like my mom. Except I was the demon possessed one, and my dad had an "addiction to pornography" (after remaining faithful in a sexless marriage for 25 years) In her head, our constant moves from place to place, always initiated by my mother, ( many when her and my father were still together) always had some spiritual meaning and every little thing was blown way out of proportion.It was like watching a psychotic ant walk from one end of a stick to the other and brag about it's big journey and spiritual steadfastness.  We had a lot of money and opportunity before she took us on a whirlwind trip around the world. 


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God Fucking DAMN! AOF, welcome to reality. It's much better here than the world of magic, angry gods and false hope based on absolute bullshit... Much, much, much better. You sound you like were on the perpetual guilt-trip train like I was when I was in the faith. It's hell on the confidence but great for low self-esteem and insecurity! We just needed more Jesus to make us better... And after that wasn't enough, more... Then more, then more! It was never ending. I was never good enough. Religion can suck your will to live right the fuck out of you. Being in good standing with God was an unobtainable object... Always just out of reach for me. Sounds like you felt the same and I'm really sorry for that. Jesus wanted super hero Christians and I was just a bro tryna survive school without a dad and a never present mom. 

 

Just keep on keeping on. EX-C's are awesome peeps. We've been thru some shit and know it. Looking back, we conquered our fears, demanding reason and gave up the bullshit. Be proud. Be confident. Be you because you can be you. No need to conform to some shit you (me and the rest of us) were never compatible with to begin with. It's all good. Keep sharing your thoughts. 

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