bornagainathiest Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. What works for me to is to resign myself to this outcome and proceed from there. There is nothing you can do to affect what is done by the gods (if they exist). Your plans, evasions, desires would be pointless. Consider it a resolved matter that you'll go to Hell. Not whether you'll suffer misfortune, but how. Once you accept that idea, it won't be so tough. My choice concerning Hell is the choice of a Soldier who runs to the sound of the gunfire, or the moth that flies towards the light. I agree with C.S. Lewis that "All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." Daniel asked for help with his fear of hell, L. Do you have a problem empathizing with his desire to be free of that fear? What's your suggestion? Daniel, With all due respect, can you please hang fire until Llwellyn actually answers my question and also gives a suitable reply to Margee? Thank you. BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. What works for me to is to resign myself to this outcome and proceed from there. There is nothing you can do to affect what is done by the gods (if they exist). Your plans, evasions, desires would be pointless. Consider it a resolved matter that you'll go to Hell. Not whether you'll suffer misfortune, but how. Once you accept that idea, it won't be so tough. My choice concerning Hell is the choice of a Soldier who runs to the sound of the gunfire, or the moth that flies towards the light. I agree with C.S. Lewis that "All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." Daniel asked for help with his fear of hell, L. Do you have a problem empathizing with his desire to be free of that fear? What's your suggestion? Daniel, With all due respect, can you please hang fire until Llwellyn actually answers my question and also gives a suitable reply to Margee? Thank you. BAA. Absolutely. I can wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I was an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) for a very long time, and it was really pounded into my head that hell was at the center of the earth beneath the ground. I've since then gotten away from the IFB church, but the fear of hell just keeps coming back and coming back. To give you an example of what I was taught, just look at the link here: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html How can I counter these fears? Does anyone have any suggestions? I mentally/emotionally made myself more powerful than Jesus and God and Satan. It helped a lot to relieve that fear as I deconverted from Pentecostalism. Put all those bible characters 'below' you. Religion is toxic imagination. Kick its ass with your own imaginary antibiotic. Or mental rocket launcher, if you like. Be creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burny Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 This is very good advice! The more you know about how other cultures view the afterlife, the more skeptical you will become that any culture actually "has it right". I'm reminded of the Hitchens quote that went something like; There's too many religions for them all to be true, therefore none of them are Hell is one of those teachings that is very effective at keeping people under control and donating to the church. One thing that helped me overcome it was the simple question - who's Hell are you scared of? Vikings? Aztecs? The Christian down the road? Research where the modern versions of hell come from and you'll quickly realize it's all made up baloney. And who's scared of baloney? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 I was an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) for a very long time, and it was really pounded into my head that hell was at the center of the earth beneath the ground. I've since then gotten away from the IFB church, but the fear of hell just keeps coming back and coming back. To give you an example of what I was taught, just look at the link here: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html How can I counter these fears? Does anyone have any suggestions? I mentally/emotionally made myself more powerful than Jesus and God and Satan. It helped a lot to relieve that fear as I deconverted from Pentecostalism. Put all those bible characters 'below' you. Religion is toxic imagination. Kick its ass with your own imaginary antibiotic. Or mental rocket launcher, if you like. Be creative. I'm probably going to use an imaginary Buster Sword like from Final Fantasy, but it's really hard, especially when you have OCD and Aspergers like I do. There are sometimes nights where I wake up, crying about the fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Hell is one of those teachings that is very effective at keeping people under control and donating to the church. One thing that helped me overcome it was the simple question - who's Hell are you scared of? Vikings? Aztecs? The Christian down the road? Research where the modern versions of hell come from and you'll quickly realize it's all made up baloney. And who's scared of baloney? I remember that a YouTube user, anubis2814 said in his video series "Why Do Intelligent People Still Believe in Religion?" that hell is the perfect fear because there's no way to disprove a negative. That being said, there are some Bible verses that have really traumatized me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 The more I learned about how the idea of hell evolved, the more I realized like so many other parts of my old beliefs that it was just made up along the way. I have no fear now cause it's just ridiculous Got any references? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangitbobby83 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 This might seem silly, Daniel, but here is what helped me. I would lay in bed at night (or whenever I had nothing to do) and fantasize about myself gaining some sort of epic power. I would imagine how I would play "prophet" and deceive the preachers, teachers, and peers who all pounded hell, sin, god, fear, and all that in my head into them thinking I was some sort of prophet by doing all sorts of miracles. In this fantasy world I would then drop the ball on them that there was no god and I was just deceiving them, showing them how vulnerable their fragile minds were to deception. It might sound childish.Maybe it is. But our imaginations can be really powerful - and by doing so, I broke free from my fear of hell and sin. It made me feel both silly and powerful at the same time and gave me emotional satisfaction of some "comeuppance" against the ones who deceived and broke me. Give it a try and just role-play in your head for a while. It can be really freeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted May 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2016 SkepticalDaniel, Watch this documentary when you have time. It will teach you how the world really began. This helped me so much. It's really worth the watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I wasn't just terrified about Hell happening to me, I was terrified about it happening to other people. I appreciate that concern about other people. In real life, I too have chosen activities taking me to hellish places for others' sake. You'd be grateful for a friend of my kind in the Lake of Fire. Brother, know that however gruesome hell would be, I will be there with you, and I'll never let you suffer all alone. If you do experience burning fire and choking smoke, I'll be enduring it too. Brother, I will be there under the worst of circumstances, no matter how bad they will be. I'll be the first one in and the last one out. You will always have someone at your shoulder. With the charred skin sloughing off our faces, I will cast the gift of loving thoughts into the heart of a friend. But they won't be thoughts of "hope" that things would be different than what they will be. We can endure anything with equanimity and fidelity. Come what may, sense and worth keep the first place. Under those circumstances what help I am suited to offer perhaps will not be so obnoxious as it is now. I'm ready; and frankly it'll be a disappointment if there is no Hell to prove empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I'm going to be receiving therapy. It's just hard when they've pounded into your head that it's at the center of the earth and have used "science" to prove it. "They" lie. "They" wouldn't know how to perform real science if their lives depended on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I wasn't just terrified about Hell happening to me, I was terrified about it happening to other people. I appreciate that concern about other people. In real life, I too have chosen activities taking me to hellish places for others' sake. You'd be grateful for a friend of my kind in the Lake of Fire. Brother, know that however gruesome hell would be, I will be there with you, and I'll never let you suffer all alone. If you do experience burning fire and choking smoke, I'll be enduring it too. Brother, I will be there under the worst of circumstances, no matter how bad they will be. I'll be the first one in and the last one out. You will always have someone at your shoulder. With the charred skin sloughing off our faces, I will cast the gift of loving thoughts into the heart of a friend. But they won't be thoughts of "hope" that things would be different than what they will be. We can endure anything with equanimity and fidelity. Come what may, sense and worth keep the first place. Under those circumstances what help I am suited to offer perhaps will not be so obnoxious as it is now. I'm ready; and frankly it'll be a disappointment if there is no Hell to prove empathy. Llwellyn, I note that you've addressed Daniel's concern for others and that you've restated your own p.o.v. re: Hell. However, I do not seem to see where you've actually addressed my question to you. Specifically about what degree of empathy you have with his desire not to go or to be there. Please address this point. Do you personally empathize with his fear of hell? Do you empathize with his desire not to go there? Do you empathize with his desire not to stay there? Thank you, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted May 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2016 I wasn't just terrified about Hell happening to me, I was terrified about it happening to other people. I appreciate that concern about other people. In real life, I too have chosen activities taking me to hellish places for others' sake. You'd be grateful for a friend of my kind in the Lake of Fire. Brother, know that however gruesome hell would be, I will be there with you, and I'll never let you suffer all alone. If you do experience burning fire and choking smoke, I'll be enduring it too. Brother, I will be there under the worst of circumstances, no matter how bad they will be. I'll be the first one in and the last one out. You will always have someone at your shoulder. With the charred skin sloughing off our faces, I will cast the gift of loving thoughts into the heart of a friend. But they won't be thoughts of "hope" that things would be different than what they will be. We can endure anything with equanimity and fidelity. Come what may, sense and worth keep the first place. Under those circumstances what help I am suited to offer perhaps will not be so obnoxious as it is now. I'm ready; and frankly it'll be a disappointment if there is no Hell to prove empathy. What the 'hell' are these type of responses Llwellyn????? Please explain these so-called 'helpful' responses you are writing about to a newcomer??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I think Llewellyn's trying to push some sort of exposure therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I was an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) for a very long time, and it was really pounded into my head that hell was at the center of the earth beneath the ground. I've since then gotten away from the IFB church, but the fear of hell just keeps coming back and coming back. To give you an example of what I was taught, just look at the link here: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html How can I counter these fears? Does anyone have any suggestions? I mentally/emotionally made myself more powerful than Jesus and God and Satan. It helped a lot to relieve that fear as I deconverted from Pentecostalism. Put all those bible characters 'below' you. Religion is toxic imagination. Kick its ass with your own imaginary antibiotic. Or mental rocket launcher, if you like. Be creative. I'm probably going to use an imaginary Buster Sword like from Final Fantasy, but it's really hard, especially when you have OCD and Aspergers like I do. There are sometimes nights where I wake up, crying about the fear. With Aspergers and OCD, our best advice is probably professional councelling. What you fear is imaginary. Hell is one of those teachings that is very effective at keeping people under control and donating to the church. One thing that helped me overcome it was the simple question - who's Hell are you scared of? Vikings? Aztecs? The Christian down the road? Research where the modern versions of hell come from and you'll quickly realize it's all made up baloney. And who's scared of baloney? I remember that a YouTube user, anubis2814 said in his video series "Why Do Intelligent People Still Believe in Religion?" that hell is the perfect fear because there's no way to disprove a negative. That being said, there are some Bible verses that have really traumatized me! The Bible is just a collection of myths and legends written by men. Are you afraid of the Muslim Hell as well? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 13, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2016 Logic, facts and an intellectual grasp of the situation all do nothing to address the emotional and psychological impact of a phobia. An irrational fear is something to be addressed by mental health professionals, not Biblical scholars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted May 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2016 Logic, facts and an intellectual grasp of the situation all do nothing to address the emotional and psychological impact of a phobia. An irrational fear is something to be addressed by mental health professionals, not Biblical scholars. Florduh is right. Sending links, sharing our own experiences are all good, but when the fear goes so deeply, we need to admit that we need help from a professional. No more 'Exposure Therapy' please and thanks...... We are very serious about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I'm seriously stunned by Llewelyns responses. OP. There is no hell. Science has NOT proven that it exists. It does not consistently appear in the scriptures as it has evolved over time and appears to be greatly influenced by Dantes fiction based on reading people who have researched the origin. Look. Just go get to work reading the arguments against hell and also work on your reasoning skills too. Better reasoning will benefit you in all aspects of life and will help with lingering fears. Read Hitchens and other thinkers. Educate yourself widely 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted May 13, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. < snipped > Ignore this insanely bad advice for an irrational fear of an imaginary place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 Don't try not to be afraid. Fear is normal. < snipped > Ignore this insanely bad advice for an irrational fear of an imaginary place. I'll try to. I'm actually getting help for it. It's just hard sometimes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 I'm seriously stunned by Llewelyns responses. OP. There is no hell. Science has NOT proven that it exists. It does not consistently appear in the scriptures as it has evolved over time and appears to be greatly influenced by Dantes fiction based on reading people who have researched the origin. Look. Just go get to work reading the arguments against hell and also work on your reasoning skills too. Better reasoning will benefit you in all aspects of life and will help with lingering fears. Read Hitchens and other thinkers. Educate yourself widely Well said! Now, if I'm not mistaken, the word "hell" appears 31 times in the Old Testament and the Hebrew word of every instance is Strong's Hebrew #7585 "Sheol" which means: "he world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat)" that's what my E-Sword Bible says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 My motion to consider how you would rally and persevere in any environment of uncertainty and hazard has not been seconded. This has been my last post on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Well said! Now, if I'm not mistaken, the word "hell" appears 31 times in the Old Testament and the Hebrew word of every instance is Strong's Hebrew #7585 "Sheol" which means: "he world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat)" that's what my E-Sword Bible says. One of the first things you might do with your therapist is to discuss ways you can cope with, mitigate and take control over your fixation on the Bible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Sheol doesn't mean "Hell" as a place of torment. It's simply the abode of the dead, just like Hades, which is the original greek translation of Sheol, and Hel(l) of the germanic peoples (like the Anglo-saxons, i.e. the English, who wrote the KJV) had the same connotations before Christianization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 Well said! Now, if I'm not mistaken, the word "hell" appears 31 times in the Old Testament and the Hebrew word of every instance is Strong's Hebrew #7585 "Sheol" which means: "he world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat)" that's what my E-Sword Bible says. One of the first things you might do with your therapist is to discuss ways you can cope with, mitigate and take control over your fixation on the Bible. That might sound good. The Bible has caused a lot of OCD in my life. I got the E-Sword Bible via suggestion of a YouTube Atheist, MrGoodNKinky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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