What If We Lived In A Predominantly Atheist Culture,

[Taphophilia]

Didn't know where to put this.

 

I thought it would make a good discussion for us.

 

We live in a predominantly Christain culture. What if our culture were predominantly Athiest, how would religion and people who practice religion be tolerated?

 

Taph

[SkepticOfBible]

Didn't know where to put this.

 

I thought it would make a good discussion for us.

 

We live in a predominantly Christain culture. What if our culture were predominantly Athiest, how would religion and people who practice religion be tolerated?

 

Taph

 

That has already happened. It was called the communist era.

[Taphophilia]

Didn't know where to put this.

 

I thought it would make a good discussion for us.

 

We live in a predominantly Christain culture. What if our culture were predominantly Athiest, how would religion and people who practice religion be tolerated?

 

Taph

 

That has already happened. It was called the communist era.

 

When I posted this I thought of that, but I tend to think of Communism as a type of dictatorship and contol far worse than religion.

 

What I mean is that if most of the people in a given free society were by choice Athiests, how would those who professed religion be tolerated (without government interference)?

 

Taph

 

Taph

[Lycorth]

That has already happened. It was called the communist era.

 

But the pinkos forced atheism; what about a culture where atheism was peacefully and generally accepted without a government fiat?

 

I think religion would be tolerated, but not widely practiced except for small groups of oddballs, hooping and hollering or whatever else they do. But the general consensus would be that they are the deviation, not the norm, and although tolerated, their religious mores would be equally on the sidelines.

 

God, that sounds nice...

[boink666]

That has already happened. It was called the communist era.

 

But the pinkos forced atheism; what about a culture where atheism was peacefully and generally accepted without a government fiat?

 

I think religion would be tolerated, but not widely practiced except for small groups of oddballs, hooping and hollering or whatever else they do. But the general consensus would be that they are the deviation, not the norm, and although tolerated, their religious mores would be equally on the sidelines.

 

God, that sounds nice...

Ya it does sound nice. Just think about it no more prayer in public schools. Taxes on the bible. Best of all no more "in gawd we trust" on our money.

[cathuria]

Well, in a healthy atheist culture, I think religion would be tolerated... and laughed at. As in, the church-goers would be in the same social group as UFO cultists and people who are actually afraid that Bat-Boy might move into their neighborhood.

[snookums]

We live in a predominantly Christain culture. What if our culture were predominantly Athiest, how would religion and people who practice religion be tolerated?

 

Taph

 

I've lived in Aust for the last yay long years, although there's been a general tilt towards a conservative Bushism since around the 9/11 thang, I'd say Australian's have done pretty well without the perceived dominance of xianity in the culture. I hope that doesn't change with the expected flood of american Tv/media in the free trade agreement fuckup.

 

Anyway...

We don't have prayer in public schools, state and church is pretty much separate etc.

As a family we immigrated from a communist country to escape the religous persecution....

 

However at the time..my family were odd balls in Aust because of our SDAism. Ironically we became the intolerant ones and refused to mix with the 'evil' worldly neighbours who mostly didn't go to church. I recon xians love to be persecuted!

 

What I found interesting was that ethnicity is more of a problem than religon. Australia, I think was built on racism and classism.......basically methinks, if its not religon its going to some other kind of intolerance happening...or groups stuff like the difference between rural and city people.

[spamandham]

That has already happened. It was called the communist era.

 

Yes and no. Religion was tolertaed well beond what the official story said, which is why the second it collapsed, religion was suddenly all over the place in the former communist world. In some places, there was no attempt at all to suppress religion.

 

That said, my answer to the original question is that the religious would probably be social outcasts but not criminals in the West. In the nations that are now theocratic, the religious would probably lose their heads.

 

IMHO, culture drives religion much more than religion drives culture. Europe is the best example of what will happen in the west as religion is abandoned - secular authoritarianism like socialism and legislated political correctness will replace religious authoritarianism. I don't look forward to it any more than I look forward to it not happening. Both are bleak to me.

[Dhampir]

Depends on how atheism was arrived at as the consensus. If it happened to simply develop, then one could assume it would likely be tolerated but mildly ostricised. Kinda like wicca in this country among most people of all stripes.

[Asimov]

When I posted this I thought of that, but I tend to think of Communism as a type of dictatorship and contol far worse than religion.

 

What I mean is that if most of the people in a given free society were by choice Athiests, how would those who professed religion be tolerated (without government interference)?

 

Taph

 

Taph

 

I would think they'd be the "town fools" of the nation. People looked down upon with bemusement as simple minded.

[Vigile]

Legally, absolutely. I believe that atheists are one of the most tollerant groups when it comes to creating an environment of free thought, even if that thought does not happen to be very logically based.

 

Emotionally? I think we would be far more free to laugh at those who believe in fairies and other invisible, undetectible wish granters.

 

 

That has already happened. It was called the communist era.

 

I disagree. Communism was the religion. They just promoted atheism to get people to change focus from Orthodoxy. The Orthodox church legitimized the old Tsarist system and so this system of belief had to be eradicated in order for the hoi polloi to switch allegiances. From a first hand look at ex communists here I can tell you that they were as believing and subservient to this ism as any cult member is to their cult leader. Replace the word "state" with "church" and you get the idea.

[Ziggy]

Its the control/intolerance side of any country/government/religion that causes the problems and how they enforce that control.

 

Fundamental Christianity attempts to keep everyone in such a narrow minded train of thought and to do this they preach salvation and damnation. There is no tolerance there but modern christianity is all mind games ..not actual physical war like it used to be

 

Communism attempted to do the same thing - a forced adherance to the mother state and anyone outside of that was imprisoned or killed. This was mind games and physical war

 

So the mark of any predominant way of thinking in any culture must be in its tolerance of peaceful goups in society - and that in my view would include religion as long as the religion itself is tolerant and peaceful.

 

In Europe many countries are predominantly non religious. Scandanavian coutries especially. They are good people I think and only have problems when they print the wrong sort of cartoons.. but thats a different matter

[Ziggy]

Sweden has its problems like any country. They just seem to be different from other countries. Cencorship of sex on normal TV is very lax... whether this causes a big problem in the country or not i don't know

 

The main thing at the moment is that Sweden has a big Muslim imigrant issue. Check out http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/musli...sweden-and.html

 

Maybe there is a point here. If you want a country that has no stong beliefs you let yourself open to others who do. This seems an issue in other scandanavian countries also

 

The other thing is they have very liberal attitude to sex - on TV etc. I have no stats to say this creates sexual crime though - I think Fundy Christians would say so.

[webmdave]

I think the question is much like asking, "What if Napoleon had invented an atomic bomb?"

 

It's a moot question.

 

At this point in our evolution, the majority of humans feel more comfortable with the idea of a god taking care of them. It's just too damned scary for most people to face the world realizing there is no sky daddy to tuck them in at night and protect them from the monsters.

 

I'm of the opinion that religion is part of the evolutionary survival mechanism wired into our brains. One day, like wisdom teeth and the appendix, we'll find that we don't need religion anymore. Of course there are other scholarly opinions on the matter: link. In many ways, the science of the brain, psychology and how it all works, appears to be in the infant stages.

 

Regardless, whether the foundational reason is biological, emotional, psychological, or a combination of all of these and more, I still think that "one day" our race will evolve past our need for religion.

 

However, I doubt any of us will live to see that day.

[Ziggy]

Hi Robert,

 

I just finished stats that show Sweden has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Sex crimes have gone down too, prostitution is legal but there are not many prostitues anymore. You can read about it Here

 

Other low crime countries were Canada and Japan.

 

Hi Serene My impression of these Scandanavian countries is that they are clean and relatively safe Also big on healthy eating and excersise (not famous for obessity)

I don't think its any worse than anywhere else as far as crime goes

 

While looking - I found a forum where a US Christian lady was talking with a Swede mother .. and this went along the lines of Sweden being an imoral den of iniquity and that the US is heading this way if its not careful. Seems strange to hold Sweden up as an example of how bad things can really get if you don't have God!

here

Its from american family association

[BuddhistCommunist]

Communism does not have to be oppresive at all. Communism would bring us closer to evolutionary perfection. I suggest someone read about Paul Robeson, he saw the Soviet Union really was not what our propaganda made it out to be. The majority of people that live under communism, like it. Its the fact that communism only works for those that except it. Oppresive communism always stems from those that would not except the ideas. I know how to make communism work in America, if anyone would like to know I will feel free to post it.

peace, BC

[Japedo]

 

 

That has already happened. It was called the communist era.

 

 

Not really, The government itself was to be worshiped and depended upon and was actually the religion under that regime.

[Taphophilia]

 

 

Hi Serene My impression of these Scandanavian countries is that they are clean and relatively safe Also big on healthy eating and excersise (not famous for obessity)

I don't think its any worse than anywhere else as far as crime goes

 

While looking - I found a forum where a US Christian lady was talking with a Swede mother .. and this went along the lines of Sweden being an imoral den of iniquity and that the US is heading this way if its not careful. Seems strange to hold Sweden up as an example of how bad things can really get if you don't have God!

here

Its from american family association

 

I really hate it when people make statements like that without any evidence to back it up. A person can site anything but how do we know if it's true?

 

My understanding of Sweeden is that they put a lot of emphasis on children. They tend to be a very child centered culture. As a result, they have low crime, low numbers of institutionalized persons, and are a better society as a result.

 

I have heard Sweeden's problems now have to due with the large Muslim immigrations.

 

Where is HanSolo? He could give us a better understanding of Sweeden.

 

I'm not an Atheist, but I do feel that if society was geered toward atheism, rather than religion, we would be much better off. However, like Webmater said, that will not happen anytime soon.

 

There is a difference in the larger, more metropolitan areas, than the rural areas.

 

Rural areas tend to be more superstitious and promote religion as though it were the meat of existance to fill in the gaps of what they don't understand, where as more metropolitan areas tend to be more educated and tolerate religion in more of a formal way and as part of one's heritage.

 

I personally think that religion would be tolerated as a formality and as a heritage without actually adhering to it like like it is in the more metropolitan areas. The fanaticals would be looked upon as uneducated and superstitious.

 

 

 

I've lived in Aust for the last yay long years, although there's been a general tilt towards a conservative Bushism since around the 9/11 thang, I'd say Australian's have done pretty well without the perceived dominance of xianity in the culture. I hope that doesn't change with the expected flood of american Tv/media in the free trade agreement fuckup.

 

Anyway...

We don't have prayer in public schools, state and church is pretty much separate etc.

As a family we immigrated from a communist country to escape the religous persecution....

 

However at the time..my family were odd balls in Aust because of our SDAism. Ironically we became the intolerant ones and refused to mix with the 'evil' worldly neighbours who mostly didn't go to church. I recon xians love to be persecuted!

 

What I found interesting was that ethnicity is more of a problem than religon. Australia, I think was built on racism and classism.......basically methinks, if its not religon its going to some other kind of intolerance happening...or groups stuff like the difference between rural and city people.

 

Snookums,

 

You did not mention this in your testimony about immigrating from a communist country to escape persecution. I am a little disappointed. Please, if you feel comfortable, do tell. How did your family come to be SDA's?

 

Taph

[Ziggy]

My understanding of Sweeden is that they put a lot of emphasis on children.

 

I think you are right Taph but again its only an impression as i have not been there

They do pay very high taxes though - that would be a drag!

[R. S. Martin]

I think if we lived in a predominantly atheist country things would be pretty much like they are today. Basic human nature would be no different. Basic human nature seems to need a pattern to follow. Right now religion provides that pattern for a lot of countries. I agree with those posts that said it would just be a different issue, such as politics or whatever.

[Amethyst]

Add me to the "it would be tolerated but laughed at" list. There would just be another issue, like politics, racism, or classism that would divide people. But there wouldn't be stupid religious headlines in the news all the time and those annoying "ZOMG Xyz tragedy happened but John and Jane Doe kept their faith!!11! We MUST praise gawd!!1!" type stories.

[Vigile]

That has already happened. It was called the communist era.

 

Actually, as a result, Russians are still not very religious. The Orthodox church has made a comeback, but it's just a form of traditional symbolism. The only way I've seen it practiced is in the form of small superstitious rituals, such as burning a candle in front of an icon if you have something you really want (like an American who whispers a quick prayer). Some people also put icons on the dashboards of their cars to protect them from accidents.

 

My wife's company owner is the only Russian I know who actually practices. When they open new branch offices he brings in a priest and makes the workers stand around while the priest does his little insense ritual. They tolerate it, but kind of snicker.

 

Religion is really not even an afterthought for Russians. They don't think about it and don't care. If you came there and tried to tell them that Jesus died for their sins and that they need to repent, they would probably laugh and tell you to take a drink.

 

Here in India, all I have seen is religious tollerance. Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, and Hindus all live side by side in what appears to me to be perfect harmony. I've even tested a few of them and told them I was an atheist. The only response I've gotten is a bright smile and the acknowledgement that it doesn't matter what I or anyone else believes; that all are accepted.

 

 

Perhaps intolerance is a value owned solely by Western Christianity? Oh yeah, and ME Islam.

[DarthOkkata]

Didn't know where to put this.

 

I thought it would make a good discussion for us.

 

We live in a predominantly Christain culture. What if our culture were predominantly Athiest, how would religion and people who practice religion be tolerated?

 

Taph

 

To be honest, I don't think it would be tollerated forever. Especially concidering the habit of the faithful have of going psychotic. I think eventually, a few groups of nasty fundamentalist would take root and ruin it for everyone by blowint themselves up or killing lots of people in the name of whatever they pray too. It would eventually be seen as a public danger and probably stamped out for the most part.

 

I honestly think that the Christian fear of persucution would become a reality in such a situation, just maybe not right away. I could say the same of just about any other cult out there as well.

[Gary Thompson]

Communism does not have to be oppresive at all. Communism would bring us closer to evolutionary perfection. I suggest someone read about Paul Robeson, he saw the Soviet Union really was not what our propaganda made it out to be. The majority of people that live under communism, like it. Its the fact that communism only works for those that except it. Oppresive communism always stems from those that would not except the ideas. I know how to make communism work in America, if anyone would like to know I will feel free to post it.

peace, BC

 

You have to take into consideration the difference between "Marxism" (the original theory) and "Stalinism" (what was actually practised). Marxism sounds great and really does have a point BUT it was never practised. Stalinism is a twisted form of Marxism where the ruler decides what's accepted and what's not, in effect bending the country into one of his liking.

 

You live in the US so you wouldn't know about this but most of my Bulgarian ancestors were executed by commies for not conforming. For example, my great-grandfather was shot dead in his own house in front of his wife and two young children for refusing to give up his house and animals in favour of moving to a one-room shack.

 

Stalin, Tito, Dimitrov, Jivkov and all of the other communist leaders however lived in palaces. I don't call that equal.

 

True Marxism could never work because there will always be greed in people.

[Lightbearer]

Communism does not have to be oppresive at all. Communism would bring us closer to evolutionary perfection. I suggest someone read about Paul Robeson, he saw the Soviet Union really was not what our propaganda made it out to be. The majority of people that live under communism, like it. Its the fact that communism only works for those that except it. Oppresive communism always stems from those that would not except the ideas. I know how to make communism work in America, if anyone would like to know I will feel free to post it.

peace, BC

 

I'm sure millions of people marched to their deaths in Siberia because they loved Communism. I'm sure America just made up all those mean things about the USSR and all those fleeing people were just making it all up and were a fringe element in society.

 

So let me get this straight, the oppresive aspect stems from the people not excepting the ideas? So as long as we bend over backwards and let the nomenklatura rape us in the ass, we don't get shoot? Sounds like a wonderful peaceful paradise to me!

 

I think it's pure evil, but go ahead and share you plans on how to make communism work in America, because i've never heard anyone actually propose this before.