Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Amazing Testimonials...


Padreko

Recommended Posts

Hey Everyone! I'm new to the forums and all and I was pleased to find this site since I felt alone in my mental evolution from a quasi-christian to evolutionary agnostic. I still have mixed feelings about the church since I still have friends who are religious and some who completely despise religion. I also feel that there are many facets of religion that need to be dealt with before a person can fully shead the mental shackles of the church.

 

1. Its a sad fact that many of us are raised into a church/religion and from birth we are told a falacy is the "ultimate" truth. Depending on personal circumstances some of us are more pulled in than others and I feel like I was one of the former. I think this resulted because the positive aspects of christianity truely resonated in my mind. (love, compassion, empathy, non-judgmental, second chances) These central notions are as I later learned key in many other religions and philosophies.

 

2. One thing that I wasn't taught was to trust me own judgment which and surrender to what they told me was real which for me was easy at such a young age. Once I finally had a good grasp of what the general beliefs of my church were, I instantly picked up on the fact that the story didn't follow logically. (An omnicient God creates things that he knows will fail) The explination using a parental comparison didn't make sense to me because I knew that parents didn't know the future(unlike God) nor did they have the power to create anything. I eventually found out that this was addressed by C.S. LEWIS who basically said that the only way this logic works is if God is cannot see into the future. But that entails many other problems which should be obvious.

 

3. The one thing about me that was an intrinsic skism for me and christianity was that I was gay and though I tried not to be, I could get rid of my feelings so essentially it was a question of the religion rejecting me. That I could never deal with. I did find a few books on the the question of homosexuality and the bible which conviniently explained away the "few" texts referring to it and making the homosexual lifestyle perfectly acceptable in the eye's of god. But by this time another problem was rearing its head and that was my passion for science - specifically biology. I'm currently a sophmore at the University of Rochester majoring in molecular genetics. And you know what, Evolution makes soooo much sense. I shun people who oppose evolution without a solid foundation in genetics and biology! And unlike god I have proof for Evolution (I work in a lab) :woohoo:

 

4. These leads me to why I ended up here. Even with a solid grip on my new evolutionary agnostic beliefs I still felt damaged by religion. And that is why I'm glad this website exists. I feel like I was let down and live in a world full of idiots who can't seem to get along with each other for a stupid reasons.

 

Patrick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the our site, Patrick. I hope you find it as helpful as I have. You'll find that you are not alone. Many of us struggle with the damage of xanity.

 

Welcome!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heya Patrick. Welcome to Ex-C.

 

Molecular genetics..

 

Impressive.

 

Nice to have you here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the site,

 

and do contribute in the Science vs Religion debate whenever creationist try to debate evolution

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome fellow student of science! I am curious as to what your response to the loss of the possibility of eternal life has been. I personally have become a huge fan of the immortalist philosophy. You may well have heard of Aubrey DeGray and his quest to get scientists to address the fundamental issues of human aging. Unfortunately I don't think all of these things are likely to hit the primetime within the next 60 years or so, so I am also looking into cryonics as a backup plan. Again welcome to Ex-C!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome fellow student of science! I am curious as to what your response to the loss of the possibility of eternal life has been. I personally have become a huge fan of the immortalist philosophy. You may well have heard of Aubrey DeGray and his quest to get scientists to address the fundamental issues of human aging. Unfortunately I don't think all of these things are likely to hit the primetime within the next 60 years or so, so I am also looking into cryonics as a backup plan. Again welcome to Ex-C!

 

:mellow::o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome fellow student of science! I am curious as to what your response to the loss of the possibility of eternal life has been. I personally have become a huge fan of the immortalist philosophy. You may well have heard of Aubrey DeGray and his quest to get scientists to address the fundamental issues of human aging. Unfortunately I don't think all of these things are likely to hit the primetime within the next 60 years or so, so I am also looking into cryonics as a backup plan. Again welcome to Ex-C!

 

 

What is your major?

 

As for my response to the loss of the possibility of eternal life. It wasn't something very difficult to handle because, I'm not in the winter of my life yet so thoughts of death didn't cloud my mind. Finally realizing that I only have one chance at this particular experience, I thought to myself that I'd better make it count and enjoy every moment I can.

 

To be honest, I've heard bits and pieces about the science of aging. I remember hearing something about the enzyme telomerase having some affect on the aging process. I also recall hearing something else about some scientist being able to increase the life span of Drosophila(fruit fly) about 40-60% I am no expert on aging or anything for that matter. (yet l :ugh: ) I'm very skeptical of these ideas, though I'm not going say that their impossible because I don't know that for certain.

 

From a biological perspective, if people start living to be 200- 1000 years old we will be !!!!!FUCKED!!!!! Planet Earth does have a theoretical carrying capacity that will support human life. Imagine the dire striats we would be in once this world reaches that maximum? A lot of basic rights and privilages will have to be taken away to help keep the population in check. Allowing people to live longer will only shorten the time it'll take for us to reach that point. We're already doing irriversible damage to our environment, and there is no planets near by that we would be able to effectively occupy. And building upwards will only work for so long. These are some other facets of the story to consider. I mean I would like to be immortal, but I also know that having a world chucked full of our asses isn't a good idea. Vampirism! Now thats something to research :-D hehehehe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a bio major.

 

In regards to the overpopulation issue: We're gonna face that without the spectre of multi-centurians pushing us over the edge. We just passed 6.5 billion a couple days ago I heard. I think we will have to adapt to make it work, but we are nowhere near the carrying capacity for pure sentient beings on earth. I realize that humans currently disrupt 50% of the organic material fixed by photosynthesis. In addition fresh water is a looming problem. I think the answer to the energy problem is laid out very nicely here.

 

Intelligence appears to be something new in the universe and it promises to change everything profoundly. There are even those who speculate that after we embue matter with intelligence of some sort, we may even eventually figure out how to continue the flow towards entropy far beyond the currently projected heat-death of the universe. Alternately we may reverse entropy altogether, and finally the scenario I find most fascinating is that a universe endowed with intelligence may choose to take itself in an entirely different direction than it would naturally have reached otherwise.

 

I would love to be around in some form or other to see what amazing things will transpire. Of course we could bomb ourselves back into the stone age next week meaning all bets would be off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a bio major.

 

In regards to the overpopulation issue: We're gonna face that without the spectre of multi-centurians pushing us over the edge. We just passed 6.5 billion a couple days ago I heard. I think we will have to adapt to make it work, but we are nowhere near the carrying capacity for pure sentient beings on earth.

 

What is the theoretical carrying capacity? And when I mean carrying capacity I mean the maximum number of individuals of a particular species that can be maintained on a sustainable basis. Some scientist believe its like upwards of 40 billion.

 

You sound like you should be studying physics and logic.

 

 

Oh and what do you mean when you say "organic material is fixed by photosynthesis?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Patrick,

 

Welcome to the forum. Glad to have another "science geek" that I can learn from, I hope you contribute your knowledge to the forums.

 

I just have to comment on the book you read. What the hell is a "Homosexual Lifestyle?" How is it any different from any other persons lifestyle who isn't a homosexual? I hate that term, it's as if homosexuals are not normal, are separate, and live their life differently.

 

Taph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just have to comment on the book you read. What the hell is a "Homosexual Lifestyle?" How is it any different from any other persons lifestyle who isn't a homosexual? I hate that term, it's as if homosexuals are not normal, are separate, and live their life differently.

 

Taph

 

Well it depends on how you want to look at it. The Connotation of the phrase "homosexual lifestyle" is somewhat negative. Some people thing that everyone is the same and while that is generally true, when you have subgroups and different cultures everyone isn't the same, right? And the "so-called" point of enlightment for someone would be to say that, "oh, ok who cares that they're a bit different from me because this country is suppose to be about DIVERSITY".

To specifically answer your question, well there's the obvious same sex attractions, pride events, clubbing, drag shows, looking like you just stepped out of an abercrombie modeling shoot, trolling, drugs, transexuals, feminist/militant lesbians, leather daddies etc. And then because some people are just completely sheltered they are unable to handle this, ie your proverbial close minded quasi christian/cathloic italian piazano who thinks all men and women should be one way. They don't see any value in gays and lesbians blah blah blah. Its all a freak show to them. They can't look at a group like erasure and say "oh cool, or no way - he is assless chaps." I find this quite amusing.

 

Or maybe this is all bullshit and I'm failing to understand the masses?

 

Anyway the book was called "what the bible really says about homosexuality" by Daniel A. Helminiak. This d00d has a Ph.D. systematic theology from Boston College, and another Ph.D. in educational psycology from University of Texas at Austin. So he knows his shit. I don't know any pastors with that on their CV's. Do pastors have CV's? lol

 

Does this answer your question at all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the topic of immortality, I would have thought it a catch-22. Say I can stop or reverse ageing, then my only fate is a traumatic death. And this makes every death all the more traumatic for one's family, friends and other connected persons, who were hoping you'd stick around. Not to mention that they have potentially far longer to live without you.

 

And if we say we can revive people also, then I what difference does it make whether it's you alive or you living to 80-odd years and having children to replace you? In other words, if your soul/consciousness more than physical then you're going to continue to "live" anyway. If it's not, then you will be dead and you won't know any better, and for the good of the world it would be better for you to have had a life that included whatever makes yours fulfilling, such as sex and children, and to move over and let the next generation have your space.

 

So for me, I'm thinking that eternal life would get boring and/or sad. Imagine how many times you would re-marry! So I don't wish for eternal life, unless that life could be diverse enough to prevent intrinsic trauma, dissatisfaction or boredom. I'm kind of enjoying life more now I know I have to make the most of it, and that I won't know any better when I'm dead or if I remain self-aware after death, then it will not simply be a continuation of the life I left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the topic of immortality, I would have thought it a catch-22. Say I can stop or reverse ageing, then my only fate is a traumatic death. And this makes every death all the more traumatic for one's family, friends and other connected persons, who were hoping you'd stick around. Not to mention that they have potentially far longer to live without you.

 

That's cool if you prefer to just live your normal life and make the most of it. I do want to correct one erronious idea you seem to have arrived at however. Just because we can freeze people and eventually thaw them again doesn't make them immortal. Just like you said, they could still be killed at any instant by any number of traumatic means. However eventually it should be possible to actively back up your consciousness either at specific times, or in realtime. This means if you step out and get squished by a truck, a new body rolls off the assembly line and your last saved state of consciousness is implanted in it. I realize this stuff sounds really weird to us here and now, but eventually it could be quite commonplace. I especially look forward to it because of the insane things it would allow one to do. For example, you could set off in a spaceship to go explore the sun and when you met your fiery end, simply pop back into your living room at home or something.

 

You sound like you should be studying physics and logic.

 

 

Oh and what do you mean when you say "organic material is fixed by photosynthesis?"

 

I don't feel qualified to even speculate on the carrying capacity except to say that it highly depends on if we're talking about using stone age, space age, or nanotech age technology.

 

I did enjoy physics class a lot and might have considered it as a major if it didn't require so much darn math.

 

Carbon fixation is the process of taking CO2 out of the air, using the energy of sunlight, and combining it with H2O to create organic sugars and O2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

So for me, I'm thinking that eternal life would get boring

 

If the Christian God is true he represents what can happen when one lives for eternity. They begin to become sadistic out of boredom. That would explain his “Plan of Salvation.” :shrug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Taph

 

 

 

Anyway the book was called "what the bible really says about homosexuality" by Daniel A. Helminiak. This d00d has a Ph.D. systematic theology from Boston College, and another Ph.D. in educational psycology from University of Texas at Austin. So he knows his shit. I don't know any pastors with that on their CV's. Do pastors have CV's? lol

 

Does this answer your question at all?

 

I have that book. It's an interesting (and short) read, although not as scholarly as traditional Biblical scholarship; meaning that many of the contextual and cultural things are not taken into consideration. It still seems plausible to me, though... but since homosexuality has always been an "abomination" I have a hard time believing that Paul really didn't mean to damn homosexuals to hell, especially given his sexual hangups.

 

A gay roommate of mine gave it to me when I lived with him. He's a member of the Jesus Metropolitan Community Church denomination, which is basically based on that kind of thinking. I could never understand why he just didn't leave the faith entirely, but to each his own I suppose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you could set off in a spaceship to go explore the sun and when you met your fiery end, simply pop back into your living room at home or something.

 

Heehee, you'd be hitting ctrl+S all the time so your last backup included a memory of your visit to the sun. :phew:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heehee, you'd be hitting ctrl+S all the time so your last backup included a memory of your visit to the sun. :phew:

 

Nah, just wait until the last second and then hit Ctrl+Z. :woohoo:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I have that book. It's an interesting (and short) read, although not as scholarly as traditional Biblical scholarship; meaning that many of the contextual and cultural things are not taken into consideration. It still seems plausible to me, though... but since homosexuality has always been an "abomination" I have a hard time believing that Paul really didn't mean to damn homosexuals to hell, especially given his sexual hangups.

 

 

 

My impression of the book was quite the opposite, being that contextual and cultural things "were" taken into consideration - that was the main focus of his book. In fact, that is how it starts off, by something to the effect of (and i'm probably quoting this wrong) "historical analytical approach" rather than just reading the bible from a completely literal perspective. Also, he takes up the whole Paul issue and makes a strong case by combining translational problems with Paul's underlying agenda. Also the nice thing about his book after reading it I felt like he ripped that particular dogma a new asshole as I felt people werent not justified in just saying it is an abomination blah blah...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.