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Goodbye Jesus

Between A Rock And A Hard Place


Travellingfemme

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Hi everyone,

 

I am intrigued by this website, but before now I haven't felt ready to be a part of anything like this. I'm not really interested in talking about the 'whys' of losing my faith, I'm more interested as to whether anyone can resonate with what I've been experiencing.

I have looked through maybe 20 testimonies or so on here, yet none of them seem to mention the sheer depression and/or anxiety that leaving religion can cause.

I am 31 and 'left' Christianity 2 years ago, (I was a passionate believer from the age of 15). When I made the decision, I was on holiday in California and I believe that decision, coupled with the beautiful sunshine and sea made for a totally EUPHORIC experience. I felt so liberated, so open, so excited...

Since then, I have seemed to plummet deeply, I had therapy for 6 months (with a therapist who really didn't get what I needed) and don't really have an interest in taking anti-depressants. 

 

Nothing feels real any more, things that used to make me happy have no effect and I feel a constant sense of underlying anxiety. I am from the UK and 3 months ago decided to move to Australia to 'rebuild' myself, something which I keep feeling I 'should' be so excited about and instead I feel numb, like it's not me really here. I think possibly I am trying to make up for all the 'lost time'...the partying, sex and so forth, but it's like I don't really know if that's what I like. It's as if I just don't know what's good for me because I've never known my adult self without Christianity.

 

I hate to label things these days, but I suppose (from doing research) this is what you would call 'disassociation', I'm not sure. It's strange because I'm not walking around every day consciously thinking about my faith or the Bible or remembering things, in fact, it feels quite the opposite, as if my brain has been on shut down and I can't process it all.

I am just wondering if anyone has experienced any similar struggles since walking away. I know I 'should' be feeling excited, over the moon, etc etc, but please understand I WANT to feel that way, I just don't. I feel I am trying everything to be excited about life, feel calm, give life meaning, but nothing is really working.

 

I don't want to go back, but I miss it so badly, do you? The love/hate relationship with God, feeling bad about yourself, then good for a moment, then bad again and sorry, so many sorrys....."I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for being human. I'm sorry for saying that thing, I'm sorry for thinking that thought. Forgive me, please forgive me. I want to be better, I want to be like Jesus. He was PERFECT, oh Lord, make me perfect....Oh damn! What?! But I can never be perfect because I'm human and a sinner!!!??? Oh well I had better keep on saying sorry then hadn't I............."

 

If you have any strategies or ways you have moved forward I would love to know. Thanks.

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Welcome to Ex-C!

 

The answer is yes; I, and I'm sure many others, have experienced anxiety, depression and dissociation upon leaving. I was so dissociated that I actually didnt talk about my state of mind much since I can't remember it all!

 

However,the drinking, casual sex, partying etc wasn't for me and my depression just caused it (not saying that's how it is for everyone). The anxiety lifted and depression lifted once I got more plugged in and found like-minded people. I still have my moments but I've improved more than I realize sometimes.

 

The dissociation is still there. As i heal and do EMDR therapy, I have brief moments of feeling present. Only 10 or so seconds, but worth it.

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Welcome to our sanctuary of reason and sanity. Many of us were in a similar place after we left Christianity. Our old world was in tatters so we had to find our true selves. Reality is so much grander than the narrow Worldview we once held. The Universe is billions of years old and all life evolved. Rejoice! Really, your future is just beginning. Look forward, not back. I hope we can help.

 

Neil Godfrey, over at Vridar, is a fellow Aussie with similar experiences.

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Yes! Of course most of us have felt these feelings! Any of us who really believed that crap is bound to feel very depressed and dissacociated from life when we realize it's all bullshit. It took me three years to recover and it's only partial at this point. Every day is a new day I guess.

 

One thing that helped me was realizing that life goes on. If you didn't party and have random sex with strangers for the first 30 years of your life, why do you feel like you should do that now? Feel free to do it, but don't feel obligated either.

 

There are no rules. That's the freedom that we've attained!

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Travellingfemme,

 

You are not alone.

 

Most of us have, or are going through, very similar experiences during the journey. And it IS a journey - not an single event. That should be expected as the indoctrination is so complete and all encompassing. The authors of the buy-bull did their homework and really knew how to control people. 

 

Take your time on the journey and don't look back. That just makes it take longer. Trust me on THAT one!

 

We are here for you.

 

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

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Thanks for your replies and support. Can I ask what helped you to feel less disassociated?

The issue for me is I'll be trying to get on with my life and then 'tune in' and realise I still don't feel 'normal' or me or happy and then a whole cycle of fear begins, fearing I'll never feel again, fearing I'll never feel calm or happy or centered.

If I just get on with things, the underlying feelings and sense of anxiety are still there so I just don't know what I can do to overcome and move forward. Has anyone found CBT to be helpful?

This website seems great. I have some beautiful non believing friends and my parents (who were actually concerned for my well being when in the church) but I've tried to explain what I feel and what I'm going through, but they don't get it and I understand that. It's just not as easy as saying "wow I have the best part of my life in front of me and I can do anything!" I want to feel that way desperately, but there's a disconnect and as if something has happened in my mind/my brain...

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Hi everyone,

 

 I felt so liberated, so open, so excited...

Since then, I have seemed to plummet deeply, I had therapy for 6 months (with a therapist who really didn't get what I needed) and don't really have an interest in taking anti-depressants. 

 

Nothing feels real any more, things that used to make me happy have no effect and I feel a constant sense of underlying anxiety. I am from the UK and 3 months ago decided to move to Australia to 'rebuild' myself, something which I keep feeling I 'should' be so excited about and instead I feel numb, like it's not me really here. I think possibly I am trying to make up for all the 'lost time'...the partying, sex and so forth, but it's like I don't really know if that's what I like. It's as if I just don't know what's good for me because I've never known my adult self without Christianity.

 

 

 

 

Welcome to Ex-c Travellingfemme. I'm glad you found us. Thanks for sharing your story. I can relate to what you are going through. Facing the cold, hard facts of life isn't easy for some of us.

 

I can only speak from my own experience, but for me?,... finding out the christian bible and god were probably fake was like finding out the person you loved more than anything else in the whole world was fake and a fraud. It was like a punch in the face when I realized that I was not imagining that the bible might be bullshit. It was like the death of the closest person you ever loved for me. It was like being released from an abusive relationship, where at first you found total freedom and then you missed the abusive person. I was in an abusive marriage many years ago to a 'born again' believer and when it was over, I was relived... and yet there were many parts of me that missed the 'history' that we had created.

 

That's what I felt like when I arrived here at Ex-c. It was the people on Ex-c who helped me through day after day after day for the last 5 years.

I was relieved to know that I was not imaging that the christian god seemed to be abusive in scripture when I was studying the bible and had soooo many questions and yet..... when I tried to let go of the love of my life (which was his son Jesus) I thought I was going to go crazy for awhile. My whole life I prayed to this invisible friend and lover and now all of it was gone. Dead. And I had to face every emotion that went with 'letting go''. I would swing from euphoria back to depression constantly. For me (and I can only speak for me) it's the exact thing as facing the death of a loved one that I will never, 100% get over. I have never gotten over 100% of any of the people in my life who have died and I don't think I will ever get over the fact that there probably is no god. I have come to accept it and learn how to live with it. 

 

So it (deconversion) forces you to become a new person whether you like it or not. In many ways, I miss the ole' me that used to be so naive because this has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth that once wasn't there. Anyone who finds out they have been lied to can become somewhat bitter and a big part of what made them 'innocent' is gone forever.

 

It would have been a lot easier to have been an atheist all my life because none of this would have affected me so profoundly. When you believe in a person or institution and then find out it's not what you thought it was, it can have devastating affects on a persons brain.....even to the point of a milder form of Ptsd which makes your brain feel dissociated. (A secular therapist diagnosed me) Some people are really strong and when they find out they have been lied to, can go on with life very quickly. If you are cursed with a sensitive personality, it can take a lot longer. Personally, once I've been hurt, I don't bounce back easily. It takes me a lot of time to work my way through the confusion of any hurt.

 

So look at this as if it's death and take your time with recovery. You might have to go through all the stages of death. The five stages.... 1.denial, 2. anger, 3. bargaining, 4. depression and 5. acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the one we lost.  Stay here and read. Post all your worries and concerns and someone will always be here to help you through it.

 

Life is bitter-sweet. It's a fact and we must learn to accept that.

 

Try and do something nice for yourself everyday. Be gentle with yourself. Your true personality that was make false by belief will eventually emerge and you will form a new 'world view' and become comfortable. It just takes time. You're not alone hon. We've got your back.

 

A big ((hug)) for you today.

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Thank you SO MUCH Margee,

 

Your words have struck such a cord with me that I am in tears. Then a thought just occurred to me, maybe this is what hell actually feels like?! It's the first time I've thought that thought, but this truly feels like hell. The disconnectedness, the underlying fear, not even being able to validate my feelings because no-one actually died...and when I've lost loved ones it never ever felt this deep.

I think that's half the problem, is even though it's 2 years on, I have a really hard time validating my struggle. I feel I should be 'living it up' because I missed out on so many great things, and now I'm ruining life because I am so stuck, so deeply damaged that I can't seem to move forward.

What advice did your therapist give you if I may ask? I want to begin therapy again, but am worried I won't find someone who gets it...

Thanks again lovely XXX

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What you're describing sounds rather typical of any kind of serious depression, I was never a "true believer" but by the sound of it, we're going through roughly the same thing. I'm guessing it has got a lot to do with identity, and losing a big part of it. Your faith was a big part of your life and who you were, and now, it suddenly isn't so anymore.

 

All I can say is, hang in there! Perhaps you should reconsider (secular) professional therapy?

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Thank you SO MUCH Margee,

 

Your words have struck such a cord with me that I am in tears. Then a thought just occurred to me, maybe this is what hell actually feels like?! It's the first time I've thought that thought, but this truly feels like hell. The disconnectedness, the underlying fear, not even being able to validate my feelings because no-one actually died...and when I've lost loved ones it never ever felt this deep.

I think that's half the problem, is even though it's 2 years on, I have a really hard time validating my struggle. I feel I should be 'living it up' because I missed out on so many great things, and now I'm ruining life because I am so stuck, so deeply damaged that I can't seem to move forward.

What advice did your therapist give you if I may ask? I want to begin therapy again, but am worried I won't find someone who gets it...

Thanks again lovely XXX

 

You are going through a death honey.  I have said it many times on this board that losing the hope of a god was the single worst thing that ever happened to me. I always wanted protection from this world. I NEVER understood people's suffering even when I was in the church. They still experienced car accidents, cancer, depression, etc...and I used to scream to god, ''Why can't you do something about this????

(My testimony...) http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page-1#.V1vv3fkrKUk

 

I cannot answer the question of is there a god or not?....  so I guess I'm a bit of an 'agnostic atheist' but there is strong evidence (and that's what I look for now) that we may be here only due to evolution. I never knew anything about evolution when I was a believer. That was a very hard fact for me to accept. It was very cold hard fact and I didn't like it. I had to dabble as much as my brain could understand in evolution to see if there was a possibility that we evolved over millions of  years. I have also dabbled in every kind of new age magical thinking possible and have even gone as far as writing many of the people who believe different things to answer my questions about suffering. None of them can answer. When someone can give me an intelligent answer as to why a child would 'choose' to come back on earth after reincarnating to be tortured and raped, then I might be convinced of 'something else'. But so far, no one has given me an answer that sits right in my heart.

 

The therapist who diagnosed me with Complex-Ptsd highly advised me to get lots of good sleeps, take lots of nice walks, eat as nutritionally as I could, grieve, cry and make as good of a life as I could for myself. I have to keep my eyes always on positive things.  She recommended 'Acceptance and Commitment' therepy. There is a ton of information on the internet. It has really helped me. Basically, you learn to accept life.... even when it's not going your way.

 

I have become much of a loner. I prefer the peace of being with myself as opposed to being caught up in the craziness of the world. I despise arguing so I try very hard not to get into any debates if I can help it. People have their own opinions and I cannot change them. I don't waste any energy on negative stuff at all. Or people. As much as I love people and wish I could rescue the whole damn world, I can't....nor do I have the energy to even try anymore. I try to help but if I see them going nowhere or not listening, I stop communicating. I do that for me.

 

I love to research things. I have been thinking very much about writing a book. But I am much older than you sweetie. You need to get out there and dance. You need to get a real fun hobby...something that will occupy your time. It's very important for you to make every decision count. There are consequences for every decision we make. So make good ones. Have fun but don't do anything that will set you up to get hurt. Do your best not to hurt anyone else so you can live with a good conscience. It's important to laugh. Find friends that make you laugh.

 

Listen to what this guy has to say. He makes some good points on Acceptance and Commitment therapy. Then find your own (secular) councilor and talk to him or her about it. Keep us posted on how you are doing hon.

 

((hug))

 

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Actually, this issue - feeling alone in trying to disconnect and wrestling with the process - is why I wrote my book.  I thought there must be other people out there who were going through the same thing.  It struck me while reading a book on divorce (I was a pastor and I was looking for something to help in understanding those facing a divorce or in the middle of one) how much losing your faith is like a divorce.  You wonder how much, if any, of what you believed was ever true.

 

You worldview is shifting.  Here's the conclusion I came to, (I explained it in more detail in the book): it doesn't matter if God exists.  The question is whether God can be trusted.  if God doesn't exist, then he can't be trusted.  If he can't be trusted, then he might as well not exist because you can't count on anything.  Love that looks like indifference has to be explained away.  Excuses are made for God's hiddenness. Inability to reach God is just explained as God wanting you to pursue him.  But a God who is always pursued and never found, at least in the way finding God is described in the Bible, can't be trusted.

 

So maybe the place to start is to ask what you can really trust God for.  If God honors those who are willing to believe but can't seem to find him, then you're probably OK (assuming God exists).  And if God only honors those who can accept superstition, blind faith, and a God who acts completely differently today than he did in the Bible (even though he is the same yesterday, today, and forever) then there is nothing about God you can trust.  So live your life being the best person you can.  Nobody can prove God doesn't exist, only God can prove he does.  And the conclusion I reached is that there is no reason I should care about my faith any more than God does.  If God's response to people who really want to believe but have questions, is to abandon them, then he can't care very much.  Based on your experience, how much does God care about your faith and your ability to believe?  Is it all based on an ability to convince yourself, with no assistance from God?  I concluded that it doesn't seem that God cares very much about what I believe (again, assuming God is out there).  A God of love seems completely indifferent to those who are asking questions and looking to him for answers.  So he can't care very much, can he?

 

I don't know if that helps or not.  I know that some people will take issue with accepting even the possibility of God.  But to use an analogy I've used on other threads, it's like being neck-deep in a river.  It takes a while to wade out.  You don't just leap out of the water onto the shore.  So, at least in my case, I started from the position that maybe God does exist, but does it really matter?  I didn't see the God that was supposed to exist, and all the other permutations of God (the prankster God, the deistic God, etc.) aren't described in the Bible.  So there is no way to have knowledge of such Gods.  Since the God I had trusted didn't seem to care, it didn't matter if God was out there or not, because there was no way to know about whatever God might be there.

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For me, what helps me not feel dissociated is placing myself in the present by noticing 3 things I hear, 3 things I smell and 3 things I see. I also will touch things around me. It helps to go hiking, or make love, or to exercise. All of these things make me feel more present, as well as daily meditation. When I open my eyes after meditating, I feel alive.

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Hi TF and welcome.

I've definitely struggled with those feelings, especially unrelenting anxiety. Something I noticed as I read your post: try not to judge your feelings and try not to EXPECT to feel a certain way. Whatever you are feeling is totally OK. Don't judge it or get down on yourself for it or be disappointed by it. You said when you "get on with things" the anxiety is still there. Try staying in the moment and not analyzing your feelings for a good 3 weeks. As others have said, rest well, eat well, and stay away from things like heavy caffeine and alcohol that can mess with you emotionally.

 

I wish you all the best.

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Thank you so much all for your compassion and suggestions. They're very helpful.

I just wonder how someone would get diagnosed with an anxiety disorder? Is it even helpful to have a label? I just feel my brain has gone into total chaos ever since 'the shift' and I keep thinking "I'm going mad..."

For 2 years I've tried to let things be and ACCEPT, but what's the difference between accepting and becoming a depressed anxious person for the rest of your life? I find the line very hard to define.

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Thank you so much all for your compassion and suggestions. They're very helpful.

I just wonder how someone would get diagnosed with an anxiety disorder? Is it even helpful to have a label? I just feel my brain has gone into total chaos ever since 'the shift' and I keep thinking "I'm going mad..."

For 2 years I've tried to let things be and ACCEPT, but what's the difference between accepting and becoming a depressed anxious person for the rest of your life? I find the line very hard to define.

 

You are suffering major cognitive dissonance sweetie probably caused by believing in god for so long and now it seems you don't know which way to turn..That was part of it for me. I was terribly confused for a long time.

 

Have you found a good secular councilor to talk to about all of this?

 

(hug)

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Hi,

 

I can definitely relate. I left Christianity about a year ago, and I have been suffering a deep depression, culminating in a serious suicide attempt a couple of months ago. I barely survived, and all of my still-Christian family and friends insist that I lived through it because God saved me, making the whole thing even worse. I am having a hard time finding purpose and meaning in life post-Jesus, and yet, I know that I am so much freer. It's odd...in some ways I feel happier not living by the rules and the cruelty of the Bible, and yet, I am deeply sad. I wish I could help you, but I am still figuring it all out myself. I hope it brings you some comfort to know that you are not alone.

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I understand what you are talking about.  Please come to journeyfree.org for some options for support.

Marlene Winell

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Travellingfemme (and anybody else that this post might help), there have been a lot of wise things said on this thread, so I won't try to repeat them, but here's how I think my experience might be an encouragement: Approximately three years ago, I myself was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder. Even though I was never imminently suicidal, I certainly feared eventually not being able to deal with my symptoms outside of an inpatient facility. I couldn't escape my internal hell of fear, intrusive thoughts, and physical pain (caused by my anxiety) for days at a time. I still don't know how I managed going to work and masking my true feelings.

 

Anyways, things began turning around for me when a secular therapist introduced me to the principles behind acceptance and commitment therapy. A prior member posted about this therapy already, but if I rember correctly, he focused on the acceptance aspect of it without saying a lot about the commitment portion. Basically, accepting your symptoms frees you to commit to your values and those things you find meaningful. You learn to live a "good, valuable life" despite your disorder. It totally changes how you deal with your symptoms. A book that my therapist recommend to me, Things Might Go Terribly Horribly Wrong, was very helpful for me.

 

I know you said that you don't like the idea of medication. I didn't either, but the right meds actually "saved my life." Depression itself attacks your brain by preventing/slowing the regrowth of brain cells, and antidepressants foster their regrowth. They work hard to keep your brain healthy! I had to try three different meds until I found the right ones (Prozac and gabapentin) It wasn't magic, but after a few weeks of use, I noticed that I actually felt "normal" for a few hours at a time. Now, I'm pretty well stabilized and enjoy most of life. I still fear having a relapse, but as my psychologist reminds me, I'll deal with a relapse if/when I ever have to cross that bridge.

 

Another thing that helped me was long distance running, particularly training for an ultramarathon. I noticed a lot of parallels between running and life (e.g., My mind told me that I would never be able to run 33 miles in one day, but I trained hard and crossed the finish line. Life says you'll never make it through a situation, but you do). Plus it connected me to a friendly community.

 

I apologize for my verbosity, but I hope it's a help to someone out there.

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VAmountaineer, thank you so much for your openness. May I ask if the loss of faith was the trigger for the disorder?

When you talk about acceptance, I struggle with this because I've looked a lot into CBT etc and that's all about 'changing your thinking' so I get confused about accepting feelings/emotions, but then remaining stuck as I have for so long now.

Am going to discuss anti depressants with the doc tomorrow, I'm worried about them making me numb, but also realise they could help lift me out of this pit to better deal with things.

Thanks again.

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Thank you so much all for your compassion and suggestions. They're very helpful.

I just wonder how someone would get diagnosed with an anxiety disorder? Is it even helpful to have a label? I just feel my brain has gone into total chaos ever since 'the shift' and I keep thinking "I'm going mad..."

For 2 years I've tried to let things be and ACCEPT, but what's the difference between accepting and becoming a depressed anxious person for the rest of your life? I find the line very hard to define.

Now how did I deal with the feeling anxiety...

 

I accepted that anxiety was just external interference, kinda like a incoming wireless hacker signal.

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When you talk about acceptance, I struggle with this because I've looked a lot into CBT etc and that's all about 'changing your thinking' so I get confused about accepting feelings/emotions, but then remaining stuck as I have for so long now.

 

I have found that by accepting your feelings or a situation and feeling those feelings by not running away from them is what helped me. (hence the expression, ''what you resist -persists'') And yes, you may cry a lot during this period because a lot of things that we try to run away from cause us heavy grief and we end up storing that energy in the body which rears its ugly head through anger, anxiety  and depression.. So what you do is feel those feelings. The crying will stop. Its only when you have felt all the feelings that you can brush yourself off, accept a situation and commit to plan a plan on how to change a situation.

 

If I dont accept the way the world is, I end up with anhedonia, which is having no feelings at all. I went through a terrible stage like this when I joined Ex-c and it was horrible. I felt dead inside. I am a great actress, so I can fool the world with my smile but NOTHING made me feel happy. Losing god was the greatest loss in the world for me and I had a really hard time with accepting that I had been lied to my whole life about the christian god and the bible. I even dreaded vacations because they were too much work. I stopped loving anything and everyone. But I pretended to, it was the best I could do. I was numb. This is why I say over and over how important Ex-c is to me. Does this make sense hon. Watch this little video below. She explains what anhedonia is. I just started to take her course. I will do anything to get the ole me back. And it is starting to slowly happen for me. And I want this for you.

 

Big (hug) for you cause I know how frustrating all of this is.

 

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Margee explained it well. It's okay to challenge your feelings with a more realistic, hopeful perspective. It might not change how you feel right away, but it will help you make better decisions. I strongly recommend speaking to a professional trained in acceptance and commitment therapy.

 

My episode with major depression was triggered by a lot of significant life changes, and dealing with their aftermath. My faith already had cracks in it, and the depression only turned those cracks into huge gaps. It was dealing with mental illness that made take a honest look at the validity of the Christian faith. Once I allowed myself to follow my doubts, what I learned only validated them. I have a VERY new blog that delves into these issues more, followingdoubt.blogspot.com, that you (everyone on here) are welcomed to checkout. There's only one post so far, but more to come I hope!

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Really enjoyed your Blog. Thanks for the link.

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Thanks, qadeshet!

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Thanks once again to you amazing people.

Just wondering if any of you have been helped by anti depressants? I've resisted them until now, but am wondering if they would help. I know it's hard to comment as everyone is different.

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