Time Is Running Out

[evergreen]

First of all, my family doesn't know I'm no longer Christian, and that I haven't been for almost four years.

 

They're Pentecostal. For the last four weeks, their pastor has felt "led" to have services 3-4 nights a week. I think they have 2-3 prayer meetings, and then they'll have a ... I guess an outreach service.

 

So I'm just ranting because my mom keeps talking about it. "Oh, we're having some good time..." blah blah blah. "We're getting unsaved out now..."

 

Soooo... the other night I was talking to Mom, and she's going on about the lovely time they're having, and I'm trying to pretend to care... and anyway, she mentions that "time is running out." I say that we really don't know that. She asks if I think that Jesus will return in my lifetime, and I say no, I don't.

She FLIPPED! Apparantly, every good Christian is supposed to be on the edge of his/her seat, in a frenzy, waiting for the Lord to return. They're starting to get nuts about it, now they've been going to church 4-5 days a week.

It's driving me crazy!

She was actually frightened and outraged and indredulous that I could possibly think that Christ probably won't be coming back during my life. Everything's been fulfilled, or something.

 

It's funny. When I was 12-ish, I remember talking to my childhood best friend about how we didn't think we would even get to graduate from high school! This June makes four years since I graduated... Of course, I gave up on fundamentalism a while before actually deconverting, so I wasn't shocked that I got to gratuate when it happened.

 

So anyway, I dunno, maybe I'll live til I'm 80. That gives me almost 60 more years of life. I tried telling Mom that, in the big picture, that's not a long time at all, and people have been expecting the second coming to happen during their lives since Jesus died! Sadly, this doesn't make my folks think that it's not happening, it makes them think it's even closer than ever.

 

My Mom's pretty young. She'll turn 43 in a month. But I got the impression that she thinks that she thinks she will not die, but be raptured.

 

My Mom's been fearing for my soul since before I deconverted. When I was a liberal Christian, it was because I didn't think gay people were sinful. (I expect Dad feels the same, he just doesn't say it as much).

 

I wonder if she really believes I'm still "saved." I guess all she has to go on is my word...

I just can't bring myself to come out and tell them right now, espacially that they're getting crazier than ever....

 

Ugh...

 

Just, every time I hear them say something about Jesus returning, I want to scream and laugh and tell them to wake up.... But, alas, I don't think it would be a very good idea.

 

Well, I'm glad I can rant here.

 

Oh, and please excuse my disorganized post. I sometimes go all over the place when venting...

 

 

*takes a deep breath*

[Dianka]

It seems like unless you're pissing your pants in fear of God's wrath, you're not a real Christian. Hmm, what does this have to do with your post you ask??? I don't know.

[evergreen]

That's ok. There's not really anything to be said in reply to my post.

I was just venting.

 

But what you said seems true. I just don't get how being afraid of some god can make you happy. But I guess, for them, it's not about being happy, it's about not frying in flames for all eternity.

*sigh*

[Friendly neighborhood atheist]

Doing my math, you might live to 80, and that gives you *almost* 60 more years,

does that mean you're over 21 years old?

 

You have some stress ahead of you, I won't lie about that.

It's gonna suck.

But would you rather it suck for the truth of who you are and what you believe (or DON'T believe) or would you rather it suck as you deny yourself and your doubts, try to shut off your brain and live a lie for the benefit of your parents?

 

They're your parents, they will ove you no matter what.

And if they can't love you because you respectfully reject their religion,

that's on them, not you.

 

"Coming out" as a skeptic/agnostic/atheist parallels coming out as a homosexual.

Don't freak by the comparison, it's a valid one because all the same feelings of stress, rejection, betrayal etc are involved.

But just as a gay man living in a loveless marrige to a woman, living "in the closet", trying to be someone he's not is forever unhappy - so too is a non-believer trying to pretend he/she is,

which is usually because they don't want to alienate their family, or be alienated by them.

 

If you're going ot have "faith" in anything, make it yourself and your parents.

Not invisible men in the sky who have to be prayed to umpteen times a day to keep them happy.

 

That's my personal view on how to handle this, if you're old enough to start a life on your own apart from your folks in case it goes sour. But I've found that if family truly loves you, they will be highly motivated to keep you in their lives, even if you reject their religion. Just make is clear that you're not rejecting them personally. After all, this is what every good parent wants for their children;

the strength to have their own identity, stand up for themselves and fight for what they believe in.

I truly wish you the best of luck, however you decide to deal with this dilemma in your life.

I've been there myself. -Greg FNA

[lothartx]

I can second what the Friendly Neighborhood Athiest said (pun intended ) My problem was not with my parents, but with my wife. I tried for many years to live a "dual" life. At first, it doesn't seem to hard, but it will wear on you over time. I'm still struggling with it to a lesser degree even now. Habits built up over years are hard to dispense with overnight.

 

Maybe now isn't the ideal time to let your feelings be known, but I would not put it off too long. You may find living a duality affects many aspects of your personal life. Decisions you make today have ramifications and consequences perhaps years down the road. What if you fall in love with someone who is leaning toward being a fundy? Do you go along and hope for the best because everything else seems so great. What happens after 15 years? What if you were honest in the beginning and instead he/she leaned away from being a fundy because of your honesty? Be sure of what you believe and gently let your parents know that you love them, but not the religion.

 

 

For what it's worth, I your not alone.

 

 

My .02 cents worth...

[Evelyn]

The general opinion of pastors and others around me when I was in junior and senior high was that Jebus would come back before I graduated from high school. I graduated in 1977, almost (gulp!) 29 years ago! I'm still here. The world is still here. In my xian days, I believed the rapture would happen before now.

 

There have been lots and lots and lots of times since Jebus went bye-bye that xians and others thought the second coming was near and it hasn't happened yet.

[Dianka]

Evergreen, just so you know, I haven't told anyone in my family other than my sister (after having a few talks with her, she's pretty much an agnostic and sees the sham that Christianity is). I know that no other member of my family would be open minded enough to accept that I don't believe in God, so I keep my trap shut. It's not that they would never talk to me, it's worse than that. The rest of my family would harp on me and worry about me constantly. If my grandparents ever learned that I don't believe in God anymore I think at least one of them would choke on their tongue. Most of my family is Catholic, but my brether and his wife are fundy Baptists. Every friggin time I'm over there we have to talk about God. godgodgodbiblegodbiblebiblegodgodbible...

 

I don't want to put myself in the position of having to defend myself every friggin time I see the family. Some people prefer to be open about these sorts of things, others - for whatever reason - don't say anything.

 

Also,

 

What if you fall in love with someone who is leaning toward being a fundy? Do you go along and hope for the best because everything else seems so great. What happens after 15 years? What if you were honest in the beginning and instead he/she leaned away from being a fundy because of your honesty? Be sure of what you believe and gently let your parents know that you love them, but not the religion.

 

I'm thinking this fine lady isn't going to fall for a fundy. Someone of relaxed faith, maybe. But it wouldn't take more than a few dates before to figure out it's not going to work out. Also, keeping your thoughts on religion away from your parents isn't as stressful as keeping something like that away from a spouse.

[evergreen]

FNA - I turn 22 this summer.

And the gay analogy doesn't freak me out, I think it makes sense.

 

I don't plan to hide my non-Christianness throughout my life, but maybe until I get a real job and don't have to financially depend on the folks. They're pretty much taking care of my education for me.

And I know they will always love me. But it would make things so hard for a while, that I'd rather wait until we could put some space between us just for a little while, if it was necessary.

 

As it is, I don't try to hide all of my non-fundy views. They know I accept the theory of evolution and that I don't think gays are disgusting. I think they may even realize that I do not oppose gay marriage.

I think they have the idea that I'm an extremely liberal Christian - so liberal that my soul is in danger!

 

So maybe they aren't naive, and they can see right through me. They might just be ignoring it for their own well-being.

 

lothartx - I don't think I'll be falling in love with any fundies! I can't imagine ever even dating one!

All the friends I talk to on a regular basis know I'm not a Christian anymore. I don't hide it from people I meet. So any fundy boys I meet probably wouldn't want to date me anyway!

 

Evelyn - it seems so crazy that they've been saying this stuff for so long and can still believe it!

It's pretty irritating. I don't get it... I used to, but I can't wrap my head around it anymore...

 

 

Do you folks think it's better to tell your loved ones about your deconversion even if you still aren't sure of what you do believe?

I know lots of things I don't believe. But not much of what I do (if I do).

 

And since my deconversion from Christianity was rather abrupt, I don't know if I'd even be able to explain to them how it happened.

I didn't spend years doubting and searching. I think it took about 3-4 months. If that.

 

So, yeah... I don't know... I guess I'm just griping....

I don't want them to spend the rest of their lives in misery.

One of my aunts has a son who converted from Pentecostalism to Catholicism, and this drove my aunt to severe depression (she had suffered from it before, but this made it worse). She spent months barely able to function, because her son was going to hell...

I wouldn't want that to happen to my parents.

 

 

Sorry for such a long post... Yikes!

 

Dianka - Sorry your family wouldn't let up on you. Maybe it would be similar for us. We'd tell them, and then never be able to have a conversation without them bringing up hell and damnation and Jesus loves you... It's neat you can share with your sister though.

I think my brother knows I'm no longer a Christian, but he'd have no idea why. He just knows that I occasionally drink, and for Pentecostals, that pretty much means you aren't "saved."

I think he looks down on me for it, too, which makes me sad because he used to really like me... We weren't normal siblings, we got along great.

[spamandham]

Evergreen, think carefully before you consider telling your family. If they are as nutjob fundy as you indicate, they may well disown you. You know them better than we do, so it's clearly your call.

 

That said, I do not feel compelled to answer religious questions. When people tell me they're praying for me, I just smile and say "thanks, I appreciate your concern". I've had to do this at work today.

 

When directly asked religious questions by those who have no business asking, I simply reply that I'm not very religious. I've had to do that at work too. It leaves them not knowing what that means (not religious = no churches or worse -gasp- a nonbeliever), and I simply refuse to provide any more detail ("like I said, I'm not very religious" - translated, shut the fuck up, but nicer).

 

My spouse knows I'm an atheist. My oldest child (the only one old enough to understand - heh heh, the other two are still atheists from birth), knows I'm not religious. My parents and siblings know I'm no longer religious, but beyond that there's mostly an implicit "don't ask don't tell" policy. My mother aksed out right if I worship Satan. I laughed hysterically for a minute and told her "I'm a rationalist. How rational would it be to worship Satan?" My dad is denial about it. One of my sisters started the whole "blah blah blah I can't let you burn in hell blah blah" nonsense. That one was harder. I reverted to the rationalist reply again, but with more detail as to why, and appealed to her own rejection of Catholicism in favor of Southern Baptist brainwashery.

 

I had an argument about the 10 commandments with my mom. She brought up the whole 10 commandments display thing and I said something like "well, at least 3 of them are pretty much universal" (murder, theft, false witness). She started to vent and I quickly changed the subject.

 

So, of what relevance is all this to you? How the fuck should I know, I'm drunk.

 

BTW evergreen, your avatar is hot as hell (which is a good thing!), as is the pic in your profile.

[evergreen]

Spamandham -

I like your name! It makes me giggle, and all I can think of is "Spam, Spam, Spam, baked beans and Spam and Spam!" Or however that goes... (a Monty Python sketch).

Thanks for the compliment. *blush*

My avatar is a picture from a book cover. The character is pretty much a BDSM prostitute-spy. And I want her tattoo. (www.jacquelinecarey.com - author's website!)

 

Anyway...

I will definitely think long and hard about telling them... I don't think they would disown me, but I can see the possibility of major damage to our relationship. I just wish I could be honest with them. I hate having to listen to their fanatical views without being able to speak up for fear of what they might say.

I got a bit of a telling off during the January federal election for not voting for the guy who got in - our current Prime Minister, the fucktard Steven Harper, supports "traditional marriage" and promised to try to reverse the decision that made same-sex marriage legal. (But what are political promises? lol) Oh, and he's a Chirstian!!!111one!!eleven!!!1!

Apparantly, the fact that he disagrees with gay marriage is the only important thing to consider when it comes to voting for the leader of your country. Meh.

[Dark Helmet]

Well I wish you the best luck with your relations with your parents. I'm a bit in the same boat, except my family is baptist so they are a bit less freaky about prayer meetings, etc. Still I'm not sure what it would do to the relations I have with them. They would not disown me, I'm sure of that but you know how parents worry. :/ I'd hate to put them through the shock. But they might suspect something, my mom at least knows something's wrong with my 'spirituality' or whatever she thinks I'm not taking care enough of. It'll have to come out some day though, and I hope they'll be ready to hear it. Anyway make sure to pick the right time to tell them (especially since they seem really fundy from what you've said about them).

[spamandham]

Spamandham -

I like your name! It makes me giggle, and all I can think of is "Spam, Spam, Spam, baked beans and Spam and Spam!" Or however that goes... (a Monty Python sketch).

 

Good thing then, because that sketch is the origin of my online personna, even though none of the offerings on the menu are actually for "spam and ham".

 

Thanks for the compliment. *blush*

My avatar is a picture from a book cover.

 

There were actually two complements buried in there.

 

But, you're welcome nonetheless.

 

I don't think they would disown me, but I can see the possibility of major damage to our relationship. I just wish I could be honest with them.

 

Sadly, if you think you can't be, you probably can't. However, it is possible to learn to embrace secrecy. People who will judge you for failing to live up to their ideals have earned a lack of forthrighteousness, even parents.

 

I got a bit of a telling off during the January federal election for not voting for the guy who got in -

 

If you can't be honest, perhaps you can at least be dishonest. In such situations, you are free to lie about how you voted.

 

Or you could just do what I do, and not give a crap about politics. If you don't bother to vote, no-one will hold you accountable. If you are compelled to vote by law, you can always write in "no-one", or turn in a ballot with nothing punched. If the laws are such that you must vote for one of the listed candidates listed, flip a coin to make your choice and walk away with a clear conscience.

[evergreen]

Thanks, DH, for the well-wishes. Right back at you.

 

I'm kind of hoping that they'll just gradually realize that I obviously don't share their views, and that if it ever comes up, they won't be shocked that I'm not Christian.

They'll still be scared, but at least they'll be prepared ... or something ...

[evergreen]

Well, spamandham (heehee - "I don't like Spam!"), my folks do seem to think that politics and religion don't necessarily have to match, so I think it's ok for me to tell them which candidate I support. Especially because there's usually more to my decision than religious crap. There were other things about Harper I didn't like that had nothing to do with anything related to religion. And I want to vote.

 

 

Hmmm.... I think I may have made my parents sound really crazy. Usually, they're great about everything. They aren't exactly tolerant of non-Christian views, but they don't hate non-Christians or anything. Several of my closest friends from high school were never Christian, and my parents still really like them.

It's just that all these prayer meetings seem to be making them more fundy than they were... I mean, they aren't stupid people. But I think that if all this church keeps up, then it could make things worse between us, because it's been my experience that when Pentecostals get together that much, end-times talk increases... and thus they'll be even more concernced about being "godly" and making sure I am too, because the rapture is going to happen any second now...

 

Wow... I'd forgotten. When I was a young teen, sometimes I'd get scared that the rapture had happened and I'd been left behind. So I'd have to get out of bed and make sure my parents and brother were still in their beds, sleeping, and not raptured without me. I really don't like the rapture part of this religion.

[SkepticOfBible]

I kind of think that Pentacostal christians are nothing more than a cult. They seem to use all the classic brainwashing technique.

 

Check this out evergreen

 

Persuasion & Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The Public Today

[lothartx]

I kind of think that Pentacostal christians are nothing more than a cult. They seem to use all the classic brainwashing technique.

 

Check this out evergreen

 

Persuasion & Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The Public Today

 

 

Very interesting site. Definetely worth bookmarking. I'll have dig in a little further and do some research. Since I still attend a fundy church I'm going to pay closer attention to the mechanics of the service. I'm almost tempted to send the link to the pastor and tell him I'll be watching...

 

Evergreen,

 

Sorry if I sounded preachy... I shouldn't post after a third glass of wine, otherwise I get whiney... I was self-venting on my own situation.

 

Good luck to you... btw I like your avatar. I'm not big on most tattoos, but I like that one!

[lothartx]

I kind of think that Pentacostal christians are nothing more than a cult. They seem to use all the classic brainwashing technique.

 

Check this out evergreen

 

Persuasion & Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The Public Today

 

 

Very interesting site. Definetely worth bookmarking. I'll have dig in a little further and do some research. Since I still attend a fundy church I'm going to pay closer attention to the mechanics of the service. I'm almost tempted to send the link to the pastor and tell him I'll be watching...

 

Evergreen,

 

Sorry if I sounded preachy... I shouldn't post after a third glass of wine, otherwise I get whiney... I was self-venting on my own situation.

 

Good luck to you... btw I like your avatar. I'm not big on most tattoos, but I like that one!

 

 

Hate to reply to my own post, but checked out the rest of that site and it's a little too much into the new age/channeling stuff..

Quote from a photo caption... "At Tuzigoot, a Sinagua village built between 1125 and 1400. This is a two-story pueblo that once had 77 rooms. We meditated together to make contact with the spiritual caretaker and used psychometry to perceive the lives of the people who once lived there"

 

He may be correct about directing crowds and making people open to suggestion, but the rest of his site makes me highly skeptical. Churchs do manipulate people using things like fear and repetitive music and subtle suggestions.

 

I'll go back to work now....

[evergreen]

Hey, SkepticOfBible! I was going to abbreviate that to SOB, but...

 

Neat link! That's pretty crazy. I'd say there's a good chance I'll attend another Pentecostal service within the next few months, especially if I go home for a visit. I'm going to see if I notice any of those techniques being employed. I may even go to the campus Pent. youth group (Chi Alpha, they call it) and see how it goes there... haha. That should be fun. Maybe I'll look there for sexy guys to corrupt.

 

lothartx, no worries, you didn't sound preachy at all!

 

And thanks for the comments on the av - if I ever have enough money to get the tattoo, I'll post a pic! (You might be waiting 7 years, though!)

 

 

I'd just like to thank everyone for their comments. I'm really glad that this place is here so we can discuss our frustrations. Thanks for the support.

[♦ nivek ♦]

"LOOK MA, A NEWFIE!!!!"

 

"Don't look Junior, if we are quiet, she'll sneak away!"

 

Hiya evergreen,

 

Welcome to ExC.. Got halfassed relations up there in the Maritimes. We don't discuss them much, save for the DNA experiments that happen to them..

 

Err.. Yeah, welcome to ExC! Newfie jokes aside, feel free to find a place here at ExC to hang and spend time with others who have also tossed off the religious shackles and chains.

 

k, related to them odd maritime provincinals, L

[evergreen]

"LOOK MA, A NEWFIE!!!!"

 

"Don't look Junior, if we are quiet, she'll sneak away!"

 

Hiya evergreen,

 

Welcome to ExC.. Got halfassed relations up there in the Maritimes. We don't discuss them much, save for the DNA experiments that happen to them..

 

Err.. Yeah, welcome to ExC! Newfie jokes aside, feel free to find a place here at ExC to hang and spend time with others who have also tossed off the religious shackles and chains.

 

k, related to them odd maritime provincinals, L

 

Newfies are awesome. Though we might all be halfassed.

*hands you a Newfie-shot of Screech and a plate of cod tongues and brewis*

 

Thanks for the welcome. Technically I've been a member for a couple months, but I lurk far more than I post, so this is probably the first many of you have seen of me. Hopefully that will change, I'd like to participate more, but I often don't feel like I have anything too add, because Newfs are too stupid. Haha. I love Newfie jokes!

 

(Did you know that you can be an honorary Newfie? It involves ridiculous amounts of Newfie Screech, a strange recitation of jibberish in the best Newf accent you can muster, and kissing a codfish. All I can say is I'm glad I was born here!)