Bhim Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 So ChilledMilk, any update on your plans to "come out?" If you choose to do so (or have done so in the past couple weeks), I hope all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilledmilk Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 Hey Bhim. I have decided on taking the the slow approach. Hoping my wife will start following me in de constructing. I'm going to read the bible cover to cover and I'm up to Ruth. I pointed out some things that I didn't like to her. (We have never really read it. Just gone to church). I'll continue to do this as I read through. And I'll read books on my lunch break at work, logical has pm some good suggestions to me. I know that because her parents are my pastors that I am in for some serious questioning when I do come out. I know I can't believe that stuff any more. But I would also like to be able to articulate as to why I can't. Thanks for asking ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted September 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 20, 2016 Damn good answer Chilled. I am taking the same approach. You know how I said I planned to 'come out' in October? I have since decided, that 1) putting a time frame on things is detrimental, 2)I have merely scratched the surface of the question "Does God Exist" and all the discussion that goes with it. Like you I want to be fully prepared for the inevitable grilling. I will be dropping hints and questions along the way as I go. However, I feel there will reach a point where I say something that will generate a 'coming out' discussion, but hopefully by that time my parents have a strong suspicion that I am no longer Christian. I have also been watching some great debates on youtube. I've watched so many William Lane Craig vs X that I think I can nearly quote his rather repetitive apologetic argument. However each time I find more material to think about, and am now rebutting him in my mind with stuff I have learned through other research. I am going to write down a list of summarized best points as to why I no longer believe... hopefully will help me. Hope it all goes well for you mate. Hopefully the little seeds of reason you plant with your wife will begin to take root. Remember that results might not be instant - it can take time for full on questioning to begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted September 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 20, 2016 Hey Chilled and Logical, have you come across your fellow-Kiwi member James23? He doesn't post a great deal but when he does it's usually a link to a new entry in his excellent blog, ThoughtControl. I've been working my way through his many posts and have found it very rewarding. I just read one post in particular that does a powerful job demonstrating why the Bible is surely not the work of a supreme being but rather an all-too-human collection of writings. The great thing about this post is you don't have to get into scriptural detail, or know Greek or Hebrew or anything like that. I have to say I wish I'd read this article when I was in my twenties and on a knife-edge between belief and unbelief; it would surely have driven a stake through the heart of Christianity in my view. Unfortunately I took a 25-year detour into Xtianity, but now I digress. . . Here's the article: https://thoughtcontrol.wordpress.com/problems-with-the-bible/bible-the-first-problem/ If you get a chance to read it, let us know what you think. And seriously, James23 is not paying me to promote his writings! I just think his blog is a treasure-trove! All the best, TABA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted September 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2016 Hi Thereandbackagain - he hasn't posted to me directly, however I have had a look though his site. Excellent material - thanks for linking. I have saved the site as one of my favourites (Getting quite a list of resource sites these days ) I'm not sure whether taking detours into xtianity is better or worse than being born into it. I was born into it, part of gods will etc etc, god placed us here, had a xtian family as part of his divine plan etc etc the rest are all going to hell so on and so forth. I find it really sad, but I think I am the only one in my group that has actually bothered to question, and probably only because of my biological make up. I am naturally very curious, not satisfied with just cause answers, and have a strong dislike of illogical things. However my friends and family don't have this, they just believe what they are told cause its the word of gawd almighty, amen, praise be! I am pretty sure the pastor could say all heathen babies will burn tomorrow and the response would be hallelujah. Wouldn't even stop to think of the implications. Sigh I'm rambling sorry.. think I'm venting a bit there. Back to topic, thanks again for posting that. Hope others read it. I find his piece on 'A Question of Morality' to be excellent as well as I think morality is a big topic in a religion vs non religion debate. James hits the points hard and succinctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Hey Bhim. I have decided on taking the the slow approach. Hoping my wife will start following me in de constructing. I'm going to read the bible cover to cover and I'm up to Ruth. I pointed out some things that I didn't like to her. (We have never really read it. Just gone to church). I'll continue to do this as I read through. And I'll read books on my lunch break at work, logical has pm some good suggestions to me. I know that because her parents are my pastors that I am in for some serious questioning when I do come out. I know I can't believe that stuff any more. But I would also like to be able to articulate as to why I can't. Thanks for asking Ah, didn't know that your wife's parents are your pastors. This does make things a bit more complicated. I've only been married 2.5 years, but I'm well aware that you can't avoid seeing your in-laws forever. If your in-laws have such a central role in your church life, that does complicate the coming out process. I don't really have any suggestions here, but just wanted to say that I do appreciate the gravity of your situation. If I may ask, is your mother in law a pastor too? In the American brand of evangelical Christianity, female pastors are considered a solid leap away from orthodoxy, and are a sign of liberalism. If your denomination has female pastors, they may allow for heterodox interpretations of the Bible in other matters as well... Again, hope all is well, and good luck. Certainly keep us informed on how this all goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilledmilk Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Thanks everyone. There and back again. Thanks for that blog site. James23 has made an excellent resource for people de converting. Logical, we have been pm ing. I read your blog about Noah's parallel universe that your dad was preaching. I didn't read that part In the bible, what translation did he read it in (he asked sarcastically) talk about twisting logic to make a myth fit reality. Maybe your dad doesn't believe himself but is stuck it an awkward situation. If that turns out to be the case, subtle hints about the clergy project website would be good for him. Bhim. Yes my mother in law is a pastor. And I have noticed that she is often keeping herself busy out of prayer meeting etc and I have suspicions that she thinks it's all rubbish also. Whether or not she has realised this herself (could be subconscious like it was for me for years ) is another thing. Hopefully my coming out goes well. My wife's sister and brother in law are atheists so they have paved the way for me. I don't think interpretation of the bible comes into it to me. I'm reading it through for the first time in my life. I'm up to 2 Samuel and have only read about a temper tantrum throwing, murder loving double standard dieity so far. I'm looking for Christian morals but seriously struggling to find any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted October 6, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 6, 2016 Chilledmilk Logical, we have been pm ing. I read your blog about Noah's parallel universe that your dad was preaching. I didn't read that part In the bible, what translation did he read it in (he asked sarcastically) talk about twisting logic to make a myth fit reality. Maybe your dad doesn't believe himself but is stuck it an awkward situation. If that turns out to be the case, subtle hints about the clergy project website would be good for him. You just don't have da revelation brah, it's not in the bible it's in out hearts, cause as a man thinketh in his heart so is he. They were saying that a few nights ago and I had to bite my tongue from say the heart is just a big pump you nuts, you think from your brain! Sadly I think he really does believe it - either that or he's exceptionally enthusiastic about it and goes out of his way to promote these weird things but is fooling everyone... in fact he's the one coming up with them. Doesn't sound like someone doubting their beliefs. Ok, you have one massive plus on your side with your wifes sister (mother in law's daughter) being an atheist. However how beneficial this is will be dependant on the relationship between the atheist sister and her mother and sister. How do they get on? or have they cut her off completely? (And thus following the bible to the letter... short of stoning her) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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