The Simplicity Of The Christian Message

[midniterider]

God creates a law that nobody can follow... but you can ignore that law if you believe in Jesus. That is completely absurd.

 

 

[sdelsolray]

4 hours ago, ironhorse said:

 

 

 

 

The standard is God’s Law.

The big problem is as humans we cannot perfectly keep the law. We all fall short. 

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. ~ James 2:10 (NIV)

God knew in that the Jews (including all humans) wouldn’t be able to keep the law perfectly. The law was to them teach what He already knew: that they were born sinners who had natures of sin and needed forgiveness of sin.

 

The law was never about producing salvation for the Jews; it was about proving their need of a Messiah who could offer it to them. That Messiah would be Jesus.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. ~ Galatians 3:24 (KJV)

 

Jesus, being both man and God, kept the law perfectly.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill."

~ Matthew 5:17 (KJV)

 

Christians are free from the “law of sin and death,” which means, although they will commit sin, the Law no longer has the power to condemn them. We are not under the Law’s condemnation because Jesus fulfilled (“filled-up, completed”) the expectations of the Law perfectly.

 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

~ Romans 8:3 (KJV)

 

There are two final judgements: The Judgement Seat of Christ and The Great White Throne

 

For the believer their judgement is about their works and deed as a follower of Christ, not salvation. It is where believers receive their awards. 

“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.” ~ Revelation 22:12 (NIV)

 

Without Christ people are judged by their sins and the light (knowledge) they had revealed to them. Their inner most feelings and conscience. 

 “I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” ~ John 8:24 (NIV)

“… since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.” ~ Romans 1:19 (NIV)

The "display" and "plainly" revealed is the created universe and this living world.  

 

 

Typical religious proselytizing.  This is just a sequence of bald assertions by an indoctrinated theist.

 

To the lurkers:  This is what a brain can do when it is deeply infected with (this particular strain of) the Christian God Virus.  

[duderonomy]

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

 

So then Ironhorse, there is a condition to being "saved"?  There is some work we must do. So much for unmerited favor then. Righteousness comes not by believing but by "walking" in a certain way. 

[Fweethawt]

Aerosmith knows...

[LogicalFallacy]

3 hours ago, Fweethawt said:

Aerosmith knows...

... nothing

[midniterider]

IH, in order to be saved can I just 'give myself to Jesus' then forget about him for the next 30 years?

Or does salvation require regular thoughts about Jesus? And if so, for what duration, and how often?

Is there a requirement to go to church to be saved?

Do I need to pray to be saved?

Do I need to evangelize to be saved?

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

The "simplicity" of the christian message is nothing more than a classic bait-n-swap, as can easily be seen from ironhorse's dialogue here.

 

"Just believe in jesus, nothing more... except the law... and god's standard... oh and don't forget about certain works... and it's probably also best if you avoid "R" rated movies... you know, because not everyone who comes calling 'lord, lord' shall be saved... But really, that's how simple it is; just believe."

[duderonomy]

On 12/2/2017 at 9:24 PM, duderonomy said:

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

 

So then Ironhorse, there is a condition to being "saved"?  There is some work we must do. So much for unmerited favor then. Righteousness comes not by believing but by "walking" in a certain way. 

 

Oh dear Ironhorse, I'm still waiting for an answer not only to this but what I asked before; if all of my sins past present and future were forgiven, then am I still saved if I quit believing? 

I'm sure the Redneck Professor and others would like an answer as well.

 

Also, it seems that BAA has backed you into a corner and you are avoiding answering him. You think God's power petered out when Peter petered out when it comes to the gifts of the Spirit, and that's plainly not what the Bible teaches. The gifts of the Spirit didn't only include tongues and healings, but also the gift of faith. Is faith gone too?  

[ironhorse]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:24 PM, duderonomy said:

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

 

So then Ironhorse, there is a condition to being "saved"?  There is some work we must do. So much for unmerited favor then. Righteousness comes not by believing but by "walking" in a certain way. 

 

 

What work? Walking what certain way?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

 ~ Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)

 

Doing some work or required rules to walk by. No.

Does a father kick his son who breaks a rule out of the family?

Once saved always saved.

A believer cannot lose their salvation.

 

This is the assurance believers have in Christ. Salvation is a done deal. All sins past, present, and future are forgiven.

The NT continually teaches that in this present world we will continue to make mistakes, we will still sin. If when we do, we are told to pray and confess our sins to restore and keep in fellowship with God.

 

For a more detailed explanation: 

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-lose-salvation.html

 

 

 

[sdelsolray]

More proselytizing from one indoctrinated in one particular Christin cult.

[midniterider]

5 hours ago, ironhorse said:

 

 

What work? Walking what certain way?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

 ~ Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)

 

Doing some work or required rules to walk by. No.

Does a father kick his son who breaks a rule out of the family?

Once saved always saved.

A believer cannot lose their salvation.

 

This is the assurance believers have in Christ. Salvation is a done deal. All sins past, present, and future are forgiven.

The NT continually teaches that in this present world we will continue to make mistakes, we will still sin. If when we do, we are told to pray and confess our sins to restore and keep in fellowship with God.

 

For a more detailed explanation: 

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-lose-salvation.html

 

 

 

 

Since future sins are forgiven by salvation, there is really no need to pray and confess our sins (which were already forgiven during salvation).

 

If 'once saved always saved' then your work here is done. We were saved once therefore we cannot lose our salvation.

 

Salvation is a done deal, so we don't need to:

 

1. Think about Jesus

2. Read the bible

3. Pray.

4. Go to church

[realityrunt]

5 hours ago, ironhorse said:

 

 

What work? Walking what certain way?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

 ~ Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)

 

Doing some work or required rules to walk by. No.

Does a father kick his son who breaks a rule out of the family?

Once saved always saved.

A believer cannot lose their salvation.

 

This is the assurance believers have in Christ. Salvation is a done deal. All sins past, present, and future are forgiven.

The NT continually teaches that in this present world we will continue to make mistakes, we will still sin. If when we do, we are told to pray and confess our sins to restore and keep in fellowship with God.

 

For a more detailed explanation: 

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-lose-salvation.html

 

 

 

If salvation was really in someone else's hands, they'd own you for a billion years.

You really want salvation of your soul in some spooky incompetent father figure? 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

8 hours ago, ironhorse said:

Does a father kick his son who breaks a rule out of the family?

According to the bible, the son should be stoned to death.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

8 hours ago, ironhorse said:

Once saved always saved.

A believer cannot lose their salvation.

If this is the case, Ironhorse, why do you feel compelled to bear witness to the "simplicity" of the godspell here?

[duderonomy]

On 12/5/2017 at 10:29 AM, ironhorse said:

 

 

What work? Walking what certain way?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

 ~ Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)

 

Doing some work or required rules to walk by. No.

Does a father kick his son who breaks a rule out of the family?

Once saved always saved.

A believer cannot lose their salvation.

 

This is the assurance believers have in Christ. Salvation is a done deal. All sins past, present, and future are forgiven.

The NT continually teaches that in this present world we will continue to make mistakes, we will still sin. If when we do, we are told to pray and confess our sins to restore and keep in fellowship with God.

 

For a more detailed explanation: 

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-lose-salvation.html

 

 

 

 

So all  Ex-Christians are still saved and going to Heaven. That's good to know!

 

You'll have a few more jewels in your crown once we all get there sure, but what the heck, you'll share them. I mean, you'll still be compelled to give to anyone that asks, and even if someone takes them, you won't gripe, right? According to Luke 6:30 at least, unless the Word of God is only good here on earth in this life.

 

Luke 6:30:  "Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again."

 

I don't even have to "walk by faith"!

[ironhorse]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 7:00 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

According to the bible, the son should be stoned to death.

 

 

Using verses from Leviticus to attack the Gospel of Christ, although very popular among critics, ignores the purpose of the book.

“One cannot accurately critique Christianity without understanding The Law of the Old Covenant and the massive exchange that occurred under the New Covenant — here I try to describe it in as few words as possible.”

Leviticus explained…

http://thoughtleader.co.za/martinyoung/2014/01/27/leviticus-explained-and-why-sceptics-should-leave-it-alone/

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

32 minutes ago, ironhorse said:

 

Using verses from Leviticus to attack the Gospel of Christ, although very popular among critics, ignores the purpose of the book.

“One cannot accurately critique Christianity without understanding The Law of the Old Covenant and the massive exchange that occurred under the New Covenant — here I try to describe it in as few words as possible.”

Leviticus explained…

http://thoughtleader.co.za/martinyoung/2014/01/27/leviticus-explained-and-why-sceptics-should-leave-it-alone/

 

I know, I know.  The bible doesn't mean what it says.  Not does it say what it means.  That's precisely why there are so many different interpretations of any given verse.

[ironhorse]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 7:04 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

If this is the case, Ironhorse, why do you feel compelled to bear witness to the "simplicity" of the godspell here?

 

Because many of the posts I see here (and in other forums), to me, are misunderstandings or misrepresentations of the Christian faith and message. I would add that a lot of these “misrepresentations” have been done to the posters by others. I’m here to try to represent a different approach to the scriptures and Christ.

Also, guests who visit this and the other forums will read the views of those who have left the faith and the reasons why.

Although I am free to posts is some of the other forums, I have chosen to keep my posts restricted to the Lion’s Den.

[buffettphan]

On 12/10/2017 at 10:52 AM, ironhorse said:

I’m here to try to represent a different approach to the scriptures and Christ.

 

@ironhorse  and  @PennySerenade  =  "A Match Made In Heaven"

 

Seriously, if you're single, you two should check each either out.   You've got one of the big hurdles in a relationship already covered -- seems as though you've made up very similar beliefs.   

 

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

6 hours ago, ironhorse said:

 

Because many of the posts I see here (and in other forums), to me, are misunderstandings or misrepresentations of the Christian faith and message. I would add that a lot of these “misrepresentations” have been done to the posters by others. I’m here to try to represent a different approach to the scriptures and Christ.

Also, guests who visit this and the other forums will read the views of those who have left the faith and the reasons why.

Although I am free to posts is some of the other forums, I have chosen to keep my posts restricted to the Lion’s Den.

But if "once saved, always saved" is really what you believe, then our "misrepresentations" shouldn't matter to you, or anybody else.  Because we, and the lurkers, and the guests, and you, are all still saved, whether we have rightly divined the message or not.  And if we are still saved, then we have no need for your "different approach to the scriptures and christ."  

 

Which brings me back to my question, why do you feel compelled to bear witness?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

On 12/10/2017 at 5:31 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

But if "once saved, always saved" is really what you believe, then our "misrepresentations" shouldn't matter to you, or anybody else.  Because we, and the lurkers, and the guests, and you, are all still saved, whether we have rightly divined the message or not.  And if we are still saved, then we have no need for your "different approach to the scriptures and christ."  

 

Which brings me back to my question, why do you feel compelled to bear witness?

@ironhorse

[duderonomy]

We Ex-Christians are apparently still saved and part of the choir, and Ironhorse is preaching to the choir. I think he should be out somewhere trying to convert the lost, not we here who are still saved. 

[sdelsolray]

Ironhorse's recent return to this forum indicates he now claims, believes and presents himself as a Correct Christian™.  He wants others to know that.  He claims his religious salvation does not depend on certain things, but then spends his time only with those certain things, making sure those that disagree with those certain things are admonished.

 

I believe this is a step backwards for him...a big step backwards.  Notwithstanding the above change, he still exhibits cowardice, willful ignorance and an inability to think for himself.

[midniterider]

Once saved, always saved. Now let me at that porn!

[duderonomy]

Ironhorse is so predictable, iconic, and full of cliches, that I'm starting to wonder if he's any more real than the "God", "Jesus", and "Holy Ghost" are when whoever that person is posts in the ToT forum.