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Dumbest/weirdest/most Repulsive Argument Or Story A Fundy Ever Told You?

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Yup @Lydie... A very sad detail here is that this young minister had already (with much grief) settled with the thought that he wasn't going to have a family, when the woman who later became his wife met him. She felt that God was telling her to marry him. She told him that, he believed her (and thought it was the answer to his "problem" of homosexual desires), and they got married. And now this. 

 

The wife appears to have completely disappeared from public websites, I hope she's ok.

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Not as provocative, perhaps, but I think the "Once saved always saved" myth deserves a place on this thread.

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On 7/22/2017 at 5:05 PM, ThereAndBackAgain said:

 

Wow, this guy needs to deconvert so badly...

 

Ya got that right!

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I asked my youth pastor "How do you know god has forgiven you?"

 

Pastor... "Because it says so in the bible."

 

Me.."Oh yeah, wait, whaaa?"

 

Beginning of the end. Got tired of "Because it says so in the bible" as a remedy for EVERYTHING.

 

Not amazing. Most of the stories I just read are crazy awesome! :58:

 

 

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On 4/27/2017 at 6:19 PM, nutrichuckles93 said:

Cheese and fucking crackers, this entire thread is wack as fuck. Hot damn.

 

I got here late.....I know right!

 

When I was a kid, the church my parents went to (so... me too) the pastor was caught sexing it up with his secretary in his office by a church elder. When confronted the pastor said it never happened. Became a "he said, he said" situation. The pastor managed to keep "the rumor" under wraps from most of the congregation. Some of the elders left and his wife divorced him because she wouldn't submit to her husband. It took five more years for that church to fizzle out.

 

Also, I forgot this part until memories started to flood in. A year before the above happened, the "vice pastor" or whatever they called him, had an "affair" with a high school girl while he was wearing the youth pastor hat and got caught. He repented in front of the congregation asking for forgiveness for his "weak flesh" and later resigned. Nothing was ever mentioned or done concerning his victim.

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A very personal story about my sick fundy mother and her "Christian" reaction to a personal crisis.

 

I was married young. My now ex was doing some weird shit literally... culminating with him shitting in the shower for me to find. My suspicions before the said offense was maybe he was gay because of the gay pics I found on the computer (this was early 90's AOL days). I confronted him thinking maybe we could be friends if he admitted to the pictures and it wouldn't be my fault for the divorce, he just had other interests. He of course would not admit to any wrong doing.

 

I reached out to my mother for help and support. I asked if I could move back home as I was leaving the marriage. Her answer was...paraphrasing...that Jesus could fix anything and through "his" love "he" could heal the marriage. So no, I was not welcome to move back to her home. I retorted with "I'm glad Jesus wants me to be in a relationship with a man who just shit in our shower." Jesus! I now know she didn't want her perfect Christian image to be tarnished with a divorced daughter.

 

So, oh yes, it continued.... looking for help I turned to a friend who is a lesbian. My friend and her partner offered to take me in while I was going through the divorce and got back on my feet. When my "Christian" mother heard I was moving in with lesbians....of all people.....she said that my father and her had prayed about "it" and Jesus told them he wanted me to move back home. As emotionally unhealthy as I was at the time, I did move back with mommy because I was still searching for her love and protection that was never given. Looking back, I wish I had told her to shove her "offer" up her ass because Jesus told me to.  I would have had more support from my friends.

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1 hour ago, Ann said:

A very personal story about my sick fundy mother and her "Christian" reaction to a personal crisis.

 

I was married young. My now ex was doing some weird shit literally... culminating with him shitting in the shower for me to find. My suspicions before the said offense was maybe he was gay because of the gay pics I found on the computer (this was early 90's AOL days). I confronted him thinking maybe we could be friends if he admitted to the pictures and it wouldn't be my fault for the divorce, he just had other interests. He of course would not admit to any wrong doing.

 

I reached out to my mother for help and support. I asked if I could move back home as I was leaving the marriage. Her answer was...paraphrasing...that Jesus could fix anything and through "his" love "he" could heal the marriage. So no, I was not welcome to move back to her home. I retorted with "I'm glad Jesus wants me to be in a relationship with a man who just shit in our shower." Jesus! I now know she didn't want her perfect Christian image to be tarnished with a divorced daughter.

 

So, oh yes, it continued.... looking for help I turned to a friend who is a lesbian. My friend and her partner offered to take me in while I was going through the divorce and got back on my feet. When my "Christian" mother heard I was moving in with lesbians....of all people.....she said that my father and her had prayed about "it" and Jesus told them he wanted me to move back home. As emotionally unhealthy as I was at the time, I did move back with mommy because I was still searching for her love and protection that was never given. Looking back, I wish I had told her to shove her "offer" up her ass because Jesus told me to.  I would have had more support from my friends.

 

Girl, I feel you. I barely ever talk about my mother issues because it's emotionally exhausting to think about, but my mom is a narcissist and only has ever supported me if it made her look good. I'm sorry you've had to deal with all that shit. The fundamental speak with all the "he loves you so much", "he works miracles," "oh how he heals" gets suuuuper old. 

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3 hours ago, nutrichuckles93 said:

For the veil of Christ covers all sins, amirite?

In my best surfer accent...Totally.

 

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19 minutes ago, Ann said:

@ag_NO_stic It is exhausting. I found myself responding to one post, and memories came flooding in. Hence the verbal diarrhea after. :49:

 

That happens to me a lot, actually. I will write a whole post, read it, and then just delete it because no one can understand what she's like except me and my siblings lol. The emotions will come out of nowhere too. Sometimes, when I watch a movie with a good mother/daughter relationship or a tv show (like gilmore girls) it just......hurts and I feel this weird emptiness where a relationship and good memories should have been.

 

All of that to say, my mom will comment on facebook posts (just one this past week) of cookie projects I've shared and say things like "God has blessed you" and "God has given you such a gift, I am so awed," blah blah blah. She only does it now that other people are impressed and she needs to look supportive. The prayers, the "your identity isn't in me, it's in christ," the "god will bring you back" shit is just..... *sigh* lol

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10 minutes ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

That happens to me a lot, actually. I will write a whole post, read it, and then just delete it because no one can understand what she's like except me and my siblings lol. The emotions will come out of nowhere too. Sometimes, when I watch a movie with a good mother/daughter relationship or a tv show (like gilmore girls) it just......hurts and I feel this weird emptiness where a relationship and good memories should have been.

 

All of that to say, my mom will comment on facebook posts (just one this past week) of cookie projects I've shared and say things like "God has blessed you" and "God has given you such a gift, I am so awed," blah blah blah. She only does it now that other people are impressed and she needs to look supportive. The prayers, the "your identity isn't in me, it's in christ," the "god will bring you back" shit is just..... *sigh* lol

Wow! Your mom and mine could be best friends. More like frenemies because narcissists don't have real friends.

I also had a "movie moment." I cried like a baby, but then accepted she will never be what I need and want. It's better that way. BTW I loved Gilmore Girls. In a sad way, that show helped fill an empty void.

I am convinced Christianity is narcissistic abuse. Or maybe another manipulation from the narcissist in my life. I just posted on "Rants and Replies" about my theory. You might relate if you want to give it a read.

I totally identify with your your last sentence. That shit IS just......undermining and dismissive.

I do have a couple of questions. Are you a GenXer? And have you tried no contact with your narcissists? If you don't want to answer, I understand and it won't hurt my feelings. I'm relieved to know another human out there has had similar life experiences.

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8 minutes ago, Ann said:

Wow! Your mom and mine could be best friends. More like frenemies because narcissists don't have real friends.

I also had a "movie moment." I cried like a baby, but then accepted she will never be what I need and want. It's better that way. BTW I loved Gilmore Girls. In a sad way, that show helped fill an empty void.

I am convinced Christianity is narcissistic abuse. Or maybe another manipulation from the narcissist in my life. I just posted on "Rants and Replies" about my theory. You might relate if you want to give it a read.

I totally identify with your your last sentence. That shit IS just......undermining and dismissive.

I do have a couple of questions. Are you a GenXer? And have you tried no contact with your narcissists? If you don't want to answer, I understand and it won't hurt my feelings. I'm relieved to know another human out there has had similar life experiences.

 

I know right, I'm sure my mom and your mom would have snide comments about each other in typical narcissist fashion.

 

I LOVED Gilmore Girls too, but sometimes it hurt to watch. It was simultaneously reassuring and funny and comforting, while also causing an ache. I am very interested in fundamentalism and its correlation with authoritarian parenting, so narcissistic abuse is tied in with that. I'll check out your post and reply there. And you totally said it, it completely undermines and dismisses. I was just never enough and it has given me all kinds of "earn love" complexes from people, including my husband.

 

As for your questions, I am considered a millennial and am 25 years old. I live 5 minutes from my parents in a bible belt environment, so it's VERY hard to escape them and we usually pretend everything is fine. I'm very guarded around her and good and acting fine to keep her happy. So.....(((hugs))) you absolutely have another human wounded from mommy lol.

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On 2017-05-25 at 10:10 AM, ag_NO_stic said:

I have several stories I could probably give, but they mirror so many on here that they wouldn't surprise anyone.

 

The two that popped into my mind are more personal and emotional for me. One talk with my mom and one with my dad. FYI, I mention rape in one. I don't really believe in "trigger warnings" but I felt it'd be nice to give the heads up.

 

Mom: I don't understand how you can reject God when he's saved you so many times. It's clear he has some kind of purpose, how do you not see this?
Me: Honestly, Mom, I have trouble believing that. I have a lot of trouble reconciling why God would see fit to "save me" so many times and not care at all about so many other people even one time.

*Mom shakes her head"

Me: You seriously believe that he saved me from those car wrecks, he saved me from [insert emotional stories here], but he just watches complacently while some 6 year old out there is crying both verbally and silently to him or herself while enduring endless rape? Praying for salvation, praying for someone to help them, begging said rapist to stop, and God can't because he's too busy blessing you with a parking space?

*Mom is silent*

Me: How can you be okay with that or with the possibility he will send me to hell, Mom?

Mom: It's not about hell, it's about a relationship with Him!

Me: .....

Mom: Don't you see that we *deserve* it? 

Me: You honestly believe that??! That you DESERVE hell?!

Mom: Absolutely I do!

 

The conversation goes on, doesn't get better, and I pretty much end it with mentioned how disturbing I find it all and Mom saying that it doesn't matter how I see it, it matters how God sees it. It repulses me and disturbs me to no end that my parents worship this god and I just had to get it out.

 

 

The other one with my Dad:

 

Me: I don't understand why you can worship a god that will send me, your daughter, to hell for eternal torment if I don't end up believing again.

Dad: I value God more than you, honey. The only thing I can do is pray that you will be redeemed, but God is more important.

Me: And you can't see why that is painful to me?

Dad: No, not really. Because you have control and can change it.

Me: I thought you believed God is sovereign and that I've been predestined.

Dad: I don't know the mind of God or how free will works with predestination. All I can do is have faith and pray.

Me: What will prayer do if I've been predestined? 

Dad: It doesn't do anything, but I can still hope that his will changes.

Me: But if his sovereign will is better than yours why would you want it to change?

Dad: I obviously don't want you to go hell, Jess.

Me: But you're choosing to believe that.

Dad: (the kicker) Choosing not to believe something doesn't make it not true.

 

______________________________

 

The disconnect is so painful. I cannot understand why they don't look into it at all, unless it just doesn't disturb them. Sorry if that was a bit too personal it just stings to think about, seriously stings. It's so disgusting and this thread was fitting. :'(

I know exactly how you feel. Those are the conversations I could try to have with my parents but they would just be too painful for me. The gap is so wide and they will never abandon God at this point. I think it just comes down to that fear of hell that Christians are so conditioned with. And being able to think rationally. And if you believe that thinking rationally itself is a sin than youre screwed, there's no escape from that prison. I will be tempted to start these kinds of discussions, but ultimately it's futile. 

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15 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I know exactly how you feel. Those are the conversations I could try to have with my parents but they would just be too painful for me. The gap is so wide and they will never abandon God at this point. I think it just comes down to that fear of hell that Christians are so conditioned with. And being able to think rationally. And if you believe that thinking rationally itself is a sin than youre screwed, there's no escape from that prison. I will be tempted to start these kinds of discussions, but ultimately it's futile. 

 

Yeah, that was a few months ago when I realized there was no going back and I was freshly not religious. I have since proceeded to never have one of those talks again. I just tolerate mom's religious "isms" like "Praise Jesus" or "Amen" or "Praying for you" or "Your identity is in Christ alone," and dinner prayers and christian radio in the car and all that. It means something to her, not to me so *shrug*, just don't force me to deal with it.

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I've primarily been a lurker around here, but today, a FB post to our "siblings" group really got to me. My niece is a lovely young woman who has really had it hard since her teenage years when her parents (my brother and his wife) divorced. She got pregnant at 16, forced to give birth, then give up the child for adoption; a few years ago her husband was nearly killed in a freak accident; he has really never fully recovered. Then her house burned down, killing her two beloved dogs (luckily, no human life lost). Now, after having appeared to have gotten back on her feet, and only months after having a much-wanted baby, she has now been found to have uterine cancer. This poor little lady just hasn't gotten a break. BUT, but, but... her (my) family knows that God has great plans for her! I almost gagged when I read my sister's post:

"Prayers please for our beautiful Amy as she faces challenging surgery next week.  God certainly is preparing this young family for great things. — praising God." 

With a halo-wearing emoji yet!

I threw up a little in my mouth.

Thanks for letting me vent...

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On 10/18/2017 at 10:26 AM, FuzzieConcepts said:

I've primarily been a lurker around here, but today, a FB post to our "siblings" group really got to me. My niece is a lovely young woman who has really had it hard since her teenage years when her parents (my brother and his wife) divorced. She got pregnant at 16, forced to give birth, then give up the child for adoption; a few years ago her husband was nearly killed in a freak accident; he has really never fully recovered. Then her house burned down, killing her two beloved dogs (luckily, no human life lost). Now, after having appeared to have gotten back on her feet, and only months after having a much-wanted baby, she has now been found to have uterine cancer. This poor little lady just hasn't gotten a break. BUT, but, but... her (my) family knows that God has great plans for her! I almost gagged when I read my sister's post:

"Prayers please for our beautiful Amy as she faces challenging surgery next week.  God certainly is preparing this young family for great things. — praising God." 

With a halo-wearing emoji yet!

 

I threw up a little in my mouth.

Thanks for letting me vent...

 

 

People that say this shit, like Mrs. MOHO (fuck me), are absolutely convinced that, if they don't utter this nonsense, that god will punish the liv'n shit out of them. Total and complete superstition this is. 

 

And superstition, in general, holds mankind back. I recon you (the Ex-C community) and I can sense this more readily (or have admitted to it) whereas the fundies in our lives have not. That must be why we are so uncomfortable with we hear that stuff.

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I was once told that I must not take holy communion when I am on my period. When I asked why, it was explained to me that I was "unclean". 

This was also the reason given as to why women cannot be priests. They will defile the holy eucharist. Superstitious, sexist fuckwits!

 

PS. Menstral blood is sterile

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My dad used to tell me a story about how back in his missionary days he visited a man in a hospital on his death bed to preach to him. He was hoping to convert him and thus save his soul, but the man he tried to preach to said that he was doing alright, and that he was content with his life and his mortality. He loves to tell the story with a kind of outrage at the dying man's supposed arrogance, and as an example of how death-bed conversions generally don't happen and people are predisposed to be depraved and rebellious against God. Today I look back at the story and think "wait... he went out of the way to visit a dying man and still managed to make it about himself and his own rejection and anger???". He wasn't there to comfort him or to help him in any way... how self absorbed is that?

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3 hours ago, DestinyTurtle said:

My dad used to tell me a story about how back in his missionary days he visited a man in a hospital on his death bed to preach to him. He was hoping to convert him and thus save his soul, but the man he tried to preach to said that he was doing alright, and that he was content with his life and his mortality. He loves to tell the story with a kind of outrage at the dying man's supposed arrogance, and as an example of how death-bed conversions generally don't happen and people are predisposed to be depraved and rebellious against God. Today I look back at the story and think "wait... he went out of the way to visit a dying man and still managed to make it about himself and his own rejection and anger???". He wasn't there to comfort him or to help him in any way... how self absorbed is that?

I heard a lot of similar comments when I was in the church. It was always about how us humans could do nothing about converting people on their death beds, and that all we could do was pray, because "it was in God's hands." When I was in the process of deconverting I had a religious relative visiting someone that was dying of cancer, and of course it was all about how this person just didn't understand and was too arrogant and self-righteous to accept and convert to this very fundamentalist sect, so that they could be saved along with this tiny minute percentage of people who would eventually make it to heaven. To subject someone to such treatment and emotional abuse in their last days is truly horrific and the very definition of inhumane.

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6 hours ago, DestinyTurtle said:

My dad used to tell me a story about how back in his missionary days he visited a man in a hospital on his death bed to preach to him. He was hoping to convert him and thus save his soul, but the man he tried to preach to said that he was doing alright, and that he was content with his life and his mortality. He loves to tell the story with a kind of outrage at the dying man's supposed arrogance, and as an example of how death-bed conversions generally don't happen and people are predisposed to be depraved and rebellious against God. Today I look back at the story and think "wait... he went out of the way to visit a dying man and still managed to make it about himself and his own rejection and anger???". He wasn't there to comfort him or to help him in any way... how self absorbed is that?

It is always about them.  Always.

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16 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I heard a lot of similar comments when I was in the church. It was always about how us humans could do nothing about converting people on their death beds, and that all we could do was pray, because "it was in God's hands." When I was in the process of deconverting I had a religious relative visiting someone that was dying of cancer, and of course it was all about how this person just didn't understand and was too arrogant and self-righteous to accept and convert to this very fundamentalist sect, so that they could be saved along with this tiny minute percentage of people who would eventually make it to heaven. To subject someone to such treatment and emotional abuse in their last days is truly horrific and the very definition of inhumane.

I agree completely. What's funny is that from a deluded point of view I can sort of understand ( if you honestly believed conversion was necessary to save people ) that you might try to convert someone on their death bed and be sad if it didn't work. What's really revealing, though, is that these stories almost always end on a message of their anger and hurt from rejection (they'll project it as the dying person's self-righteousness, though), which exposes to me that their intentions were insincere to begin with. I see a similar pattern with missionaries who at one point dipped into charitable works, got frustrated when they weren't praised and flattered by poor people in return, and then went on to argue that it's immortal to help the poor because it's enablement and they deserve their poverty in some sense. 

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10 minutes ago, DestinyTurtle said:

I agree completely. What's funny is that from a deluded point of view I can sort of understand ( if you honestly believed conversion was necessary to save people ) that you might try to convert someone on their death bed and be sad if it didn't work. What's really revealing, though, is that these stories almost always end on a message of their anger and hurt from rejection (they'll project it as the dying person's self-righteousness, though), which exposes to me that their intentions were insincere to begin with. I see a similar pattern with missionaries who at one point dipped into charitable works, got frustrated when they weren't praised and flattered by poor people in return, and then went on to argue that it's immortal to help the poor because it's enablement and they deserve their poverty in some sense. 

I think that applies when it's strangers they're trying to convert on their death beds. But when it's family and the believers think the stakes are heaven or hell it can get pretty awful with the emotional abuse because tbh the believers are operating on nothing but fear in that context. I have even seen believers scoff at it when they're accused of emotional abuse. They think anything is justified. 

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1 hour ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I think that applies when it's strangers they're trying to convert on their death beds. But when it's family and the believers think the stakes are heaven or hell it can get pretty awful with the emotional abuse because tbh the believers are operating on nothing but fear in that context. I have even seen believers scoff at it when they're accused of emotional abuse. They think anything is justified. 

No kidding. Have you noticed that there's typically no sense of boundary or propriety when it comes to handling sensitive emotions? There are certain people I have to distance myself from a long time before their emotional blackmail material becomes outdated enough that I'm not putting myself at risk of abuse and manipulation by proximity. 

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2 hours ago, DestinyTurtle said:

No kidding. Have you noticed that there's typically no sense of boundary or propriety when it comes to handling sensitive emotions? There are certain people I have to distance myself from a long time before their emotional blackmail material becomes outdated enough that I'm not putting myself at risk of abuse and manipulation by proximity. 

There are no boundaries in some way, particularly in fundamentalist churches, which encourage a constant violation of boundaries as a way to keep tabs on members to ensure they're staying on the straight and narrow. So this naturally extends into family relationships as well. My boundaries are still far from being respected with family, and I fear this will become even worse when I "come out." Sometimes the only option is to go underground so that people have no way of contacting you, until you are OK with it. When you have grown up in this kind of environment, the constant boundary violations become normalized, and its difficult even once you're out of the church to see them for what they are. This is why therapy has been so useful for me, I don't feel guilt at all anymore for having to establish those boundaries in a not so nice way, since no other way works. Abuse and manipulation in any form is never ok, we need to put ourselves first, which can be really hard to do.

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