Israel

[♦ nivek ♦]

Ironhorsie...

 

Israel Military Industries does create some fine ammo which is imported to US. Every John Moses Browning Day I usually give thanks by blasting a few thousands of IMI thanks downrange. 

 

Those people make some excellent shit man...

 

kFL

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Ironhorse,

Are you suggesting that the holy spirit does not speak to you and guide you as the scriptures claim it should for all believers? Thanks.

Have a good day,

TheRedneckProfessor

F.A.O. Ironhorse.

[ironhorse]

Ironhorsie...

 

Israel Military Industries does create some fine ammo which is imported to US. Every John Moses Browning Day I usually give thanks by blasting a few thousands of IMI thanks downrange. 

 

Those people make some excellent shit man...

 

kFL

 

 

I have never had a chance to fire those rounds, but I do enjoy plinking cans downrange with my 10/22 Rutger.

 

 

And I agree, they do make some good stuff. Their weapons technology is in constant motion.

 

Two Israeli military rifles, the Galil and The Tavor TAR-21 are listed among the top small arms in use today. The Israeli Air Force is also one of the most technologically advanced air forces in the world and their pilots are ranked as some of the best.

http://www.military-today.com/firearms/top_10_assault_rifles.htm

[TheRedneckProfessor]

"Rather than address the many issues others have brought up in this thread, I'll just talk guns with Mr. Skip." ~Ironhorse

[florduh]

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/realstory.html

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Why would you ask Pastor Matthew? Was it because you asked jesus and never got an answer?

~ TheRedneckProfessor

 

You might see some sleazy false preachers on TV claiming to now hear the audible voice of God, but you should know I’m not one of them.

 

Brutal TRP, brutal biggrin.png

Ironhorse, my dear friend! You are back! Please see the other threads in the den and respond to BAA and myself.

Thanks

~ LF

 

Thanks, things have just been busy lately. I hope to spend more time here this week and onward. I am working on some replies to you, BAA and others. I will post soon.

 

But neither your brother nor you are Jews or Messianic Jews, Ironhorse.  You are both Gentiles. 

And Paul (the apostle to the Gentiles) asks the Gentile church of Galatia if they received the Holy Spirit by going back to the Old Testament ways of the Jews.

~ bornagainathiest

 

Did you not read the Messianic Jewish site I posted on this subject?

 

And did you not read what I wrote about you not being either a Jew or a Messianic Jew?

 

You, a Gentile Christian, posted an exclusively Jewish interpretation of Genesis 12 : 3, in your OP.

 

Which, as Paul explains to the Galatians and Ephesians, is not the full and proper understanding that a Gentile Christian should either hold to or preach publicly.

 

Your way is the way of Christ, not the way of the nation of Israel.

 

That way is held to only by the Jews and they neither accept, believe in nor honor Jesus Christ. 

 

So, by publicly preaching Israel over Christ like this you are making the same kind of error as the churches of Ephesus and Galatia.

.

.

.

Posting a link to a Messianic Jewish site doesn't alter the fact that for 31 days you were publicly preaching this error.

 

Furthermore, if I hadn't prodded you into action with repeated requests for a reply and then finally a private message, you'd STILL BE publicly preaching this error.

 

And please don't respond by saying that you 'weren't preaching', Ironhorse.

 

You wrote and put this information out there, for all to read.

 

So, it's your responsibility.

 

 

.

.

.

You may not to be sleazy, false preacher ...but you do handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence.

 

Or would you care to dispute that, Ironhorse?

 

 

 

Ironhorse,

 

Would you care to dispute that you handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence?

 

 

(Bump!)

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

Why would you ask Pastor Matthew? Was it because you asked jesus and never got an answer?

~ TheRedneckProfessor

 

You might see some sleazy false preachers on TV claiming to now hear the audible voice of God, but you should know I’m not one of them.

 

Brutal TRP, brutal biggrin.png

Ironhorse, my dear friend! You are back! Please see the other threads in the den and respond to BAA and myself.

Thanks

~ LF

 

Thanks, things have just been busy lately. I hope to spend more time here this week and onward. I am working on some replies to you, BAA and others. I will post soon.

 

But neither your brother nor you are Jews or Messianic Jews, Ironhorse.  You are both Gentiles. 

And Paul (the apostle to the Gentiles) asks the Gentile church of Galatia if they received the Holy Spirit by going back to the Old Testament ways of the Jews.

~ bornagainathiest

 

Did you not read the Messianic Jewish site I posted on this subject?

 

And did you not read what I wrote about you not being either a Jew or a Messianic Jew?

 

You, a Gentile Christian, posted an exclusively Jewish interpretation of Genesis 12 : 3, in your OP.

 

Which, as Paul explains to the Galatians and Ephesians, is not the full and proper understanding that a Gentile Christian should either hold to or preach publicly.

 

Your way is the way of Christ, not the way of the nation of Israel.

 

That way is held to only by the Jews and they neither accept, believe in nor honor Jesus Christ. 

 

So, by publicly preaching Israel over Christ like this you are making the same kind of error as the churches of Ephesus and Galatia.

.

.

.

Posting a link to a Messianic Jewish site doesn't alter the fact that for 31 days you were publicly preaching this error.

 

Furthermore, if I hadn't prodded you into action with repeated requests for a reply and then finally a private message, you'd STILL BE publicly preaching this error.

 

And please don't respond by saying that you 'weren't preaching', Ironhorse.

 

You wrote and put this information out there, for all to read.

 

So, it's your responsibility.

 

 

.

.

.

You may not to be sleazy, false preacher ...but you do handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence.

 

Or would you care to dispute that, Ironhorse?

 

 

 

Ironhorse,

 

Would you care to dispute that you handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence?

 

 

(Bump!)

 

 

(Re-bump!)

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

Why would you ask Pastor Matthew? Was it because you asked jesus and never got an answer?

~ TheRedneckProfessor

 

You might see some sleazy false preachers on TV claiming to now hear the audible voice of God, but you should know I’m not one of them.

 

Brutal TRP, brutal biggrin.png

Ironhorse, my dear friend! You are back! Please see the other threads in the den and respond to BAA and myself.

Thanks

~ LF

 

Thanks, things have just been busy lately. I hope to spend more time here this week and onward. I am working on some replies to you, BAA and others. I will post soon.

 

But neither your brother nor you are Jews or Messianic Jews, Ironhorse.  You are both Gentiles. 

And Paul (the apostle to the Gentiles) asks the Gentile church of Galatia if they received the Holy Spirit by going back to the Old Testament ways of the Jews.

~ bornagainathiest

 

Did you not read the Messianic Jewish site I posted on this subject?

 

And did you not read what I wrote about you not being either a Jew or a Messianic Jew?

 

You, a Gentile Christian, posted an exclusively Jewish interpretation of Genesis 12 : 3, in your OP.

 

Which, as Paul explains to the Galatians and Ephesians, is not the full and proper understanding that a Gentile Christian should either hold to or preach publicly.

 

Your way is the way of Christ, not the way of the nation of Israel.

 

That way is held to only by the Jews and they neither accept, believe in nor honor Jesus Christ. 

 

So, by publicly preaching Israel over Christ like this you are making the same kind of error as the churches of Ephesus and Galatia.

.

.

.

Posting a link to a Messianic Jewish site doesn't alter the fact that for 31 days you were publicly preaching this error.

 

Furthermore, if I hadn't prodded you into action with repeated requests for a reply and then finally a private message, you'd STILL BE publicly preaching this error.

 

And please don't respond by saying that you 'weren't preaching', Ironhorse.

 

You wrote and put this information out there, for all to read.

 

So, it's your responsibility.

 

 

.

.

.

You may not to be sleazy, false preacher ...but you do handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence.

 

Or would you care to dispute that, Ironhorse?

 

 

 

Ironhorse,

 

Would you care to dispute that you handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence?

 

 

(Bump!)

 

 

(Re-bump!)

 

 

(Re-re-bump!)

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

 

Why would you ask Pastor Matthew? Was it because you asked jesus and never got an answer?

~ TheRedneckProfessor

 

You might see some sleazy false preachers on TV claiming to now hear the audible voice of God, but you should know I’m not one of them.

 

Brutal TRP, brutal biggrin.png

Ironhorse, my dear friend! You are back! Please see the other threads in the den and respond to BAA and myself.

Thanks

~ LF

 

Thanks, things have just been busy lately. I hope to spend more time here this week and onward. I am working on some replies to you, BAA and others. I will post soon.

 

But neither your brother nor you are Jews or Messianic Jews, Ironhorse.  You are both Gentiles. 

And Paul (the apostle to the Gentiles) asks the Gentile church of Galatia if they received the Holy Spirit by going back to the Old Testament ways of the Jews.

~ bornagainathiest

 

Did you not read the Messianic Jewish site I posted on this subject?

 

And did you not read what I wrote about you not being either a Jew or a Messianic Jew?

 

You, a Gentile Christian, posted an exclusively Jewish interpretation of Genesis 12 : 3, in your OP.

 

Which, as Paul explains to the Galatians and Ephesians, is not the full and proper understanding that a Gentile Christian should either hold to or preach publicly.

 

Your way is the way of Christ, not the way of the nation of Israel.

 

That way is held to only by the Jews and they neither accept, believe in nor honor Jesus Christ. 

 

So, by publicly preaching Israel over Christ like this you are making the same kind of error as the churches of Ephesus and Galatia.

.

.

.

Posting a link to a Messianic Jewish site doesn't alter the fact that for 31 days you were publicly preaching this error.

 

Furthermore, if I hadn't prodded you into action with repeated requests for a reply and then finally a private message, you'd STILL BE publicly preaching this error.

 

And please don't respond by saying that you 'weren't preaching', Ironhorse.

 

You wrote and put this information out there, for all to read.

 

So, it's your responsibility.

 

 

.

.

.

You may not to be sleazy, false preacher ...but you do handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence.

 

Or would you care to dispute that, Ironhorse?

 

 

 

Ironhorse,

 

Would you care to dispute that you handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence?

 

 

(Bump!)

 

 

(Re-bump!)

 

 

(Re-re-bump!)

 

 

(Re-re-re-bump!)

[rjn]

 

You're on fire BAA!

[ironhorse]

You, a Gentile Christian, posted an exclusively Jewish interpretation of Genesis 12 : 3, in your OP.

 

~ BAA

 

A view held by Jewish and Gentile believers as I have posted. 

 

The core answer is God chose the small tribe of Israel to reveal himself to the world. It is through them God spoke in the scriptures. It is through them the world has received many blessings.

 

It is through them the Messiah entered the world. The ultimate blessing. 

[Jeff]

^standard dodge

Always afraid or unable to directly answer questions pertaining to positions you've taken.

 

'Everyone thinks this or that...'

 

Lame

[bornagainathiest]

You, a Gentile Christian, posted an exclusively Jewish interpretation of Genesis 12 : 3, in your OP.

 

~ BAA

 

A view held by Jewish and Gentile believers as I have posted. 

 

The core answer is God chose the small tribe of Israel to reveal himself to the world. It is through them God spoke in the scriptures. It is through them the world has received many blessings.

 

It is through them the Messiah entered the world. The ultimate blessing. 

 

Ironhorse,

 

I have already explained to you where your error is, but you still do not seem ready to accept that you are in error.  

Your line seems to be that if other Gentile Christians can say that Genesis 12 : 3 refers to the Jews, then so can you.  Never mind what the Bible says.  Never mind what God's word actually says, even when clearly explained by Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles.  And this is why you handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and neglect.  You erred by presenting Genesis 12 : 3 as referring only to the Jews, when it doesn't.

 

It's now time for you to face up to the fact that your OP in this thread was in error.  

I've explained that error to you in this thread, in the thread 'Not Israel' and to you directly, person-to-person, via the private messaging system.  This issue isn't going away and I will continue to ask you to resolve it in the only satisfactory way - by admitting to your error.  All of 2017 lies before us and I'll be keeping the counts I've started regarding this issue going for as long as necessary.  You haven't replied to any of my PM's and you only seem to reply when prodded by me, so I will just have to keep on prodding you until you are ready to accept, admit and put right your error.

 

Please note that I'm not asking you to do anything I wouldn't.

As quickly as I can, whenever I'm made aware that I've erred about something (anything!) I admit my mistake, put it right and thank the person correcting me.  

 

Anyway, here is what I posted for your attention twenty (20) days ago.  I re-post it here because you still haven't addressed the error I have been at pains to explain to you.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BAA,

What does me being a Gentile have to do in understanding “the blessings” promised in Genesis 12? 

 

I explained this to you in the private message that I sent.  A message that Duderonomy carefully checked and had no trouble understanding.  

 

In Galatians 3 Paul was pointing out the error of going back to the Law to seek righteousness. As Paul points out, this was achieved by Christ’s crucifixion.

 

If you refer back to the pm I sent you, I explained that your error is of the same kind as the one being made by them - but not exactly the same one.  

Do not confuse an error about the Law with an error about the promises made to Abram.  

Again, Duderonomy had no problem seeing this.

 

As I have stated before, this view of Genesis 12 is held many, both Jewish and Gentile believers.

 

Please re-read my pm to you and you will see what I am saying.  I said it clearly and lucidly and Duderonomy had no problem following my line of argument.

 

Since you are slow to understand, maybe you would like the Dude to explain where and how you are in error?

 

Anyway, here is what I sent to you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.

.

.

Also, for you benefit below, I re-post this, which now be fourth (4th) time I've done so.

 

Genesis 12 : 1 - 3

 

1 The Lord had said to Abram, "Go from your country, your people and your father's household to the land I will show you.

 

2 "I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.

 

3  I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

 

When Abram heard these words, what he didn't know at that time was that he actually hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, announced by God, thousands of years in advance of the birth of the Messiah.  Nor could he have known that, 'all nations will be blessed through you'  was a Gospel announcement about Jesus Christ being a blessing to all nations.  At this time there were no Jews and the nation of Israel did not yet exist.  On that day they only existed as promises given to Abram by God.  And this is the very understanding all Jews have taken from this passage of scripture since then.  That God fulfilled his promises to Abram, by making him the founding father of the Israelite people.  

 

This exclusively patriarchal understanding of God's promise is not the full story, however.  

Nor is it the understanding that Christians should hold to.  A new, better and complete understanding was revealed by God to the apostle Paul.  One that supersedes the original and incomplete understanding held by the Jews.  It is this new understanding of what God meant in His promises to Abram that I will now explain.  

 

So, how do we know that Genesis 12 : 3 refers to Jesus Christ and not to Abram (Abraham) or Israel?  We know because Paul explained it to the church of the Galatians. 

 

 

Galatians 3 : 7 - 9

 

 7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

 

8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”

 

9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

 

 

Paul then went further, explaining that these promises referred not to the whole nation of Israel, but to one specific descendant of Abraham - Jesus Christ.

 

 

Galatians 3 : 15 & 16

 

15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 

 

16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.

 

 

So, God's promises were made to Abraham and his seed (Jesus Christ) and not to Abraham and his seeds (Israel).  

Abraham couldn't have known the full scope of the promise that God made to him on that day.  At that time he would have concluded that God was promising to make him the father of a great nation.  He would not have concluded one of his descendants would actually... BE ...God Himself, incarnated in the flesh of a mortal man.  The humble son of a carpenter.  Such knowledge was not only beyond Abraham's imagination but this information was deliberately withheld from him and from the Jewish nation until God was ready to announce it to the world.  Paul explained this to the Ephesian church, like this...

 

 

Ephesians 3 : 2 - 11.

 

2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you,

3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.

4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power.

8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ,

9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,

11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

The mystery of Christ that was not made known to Abraham or any other generation of the Jewish people was this.

Their God (as Jesus Christ) would become a blessing to all nations.  So the promise given in Genesis 12 : 3 refers not to the nation of Israel blessing the Gentiles, but to God Himself (as Jesus) blessing both to the Jews of Israel and the Gentiles with salvation.   The full magnitude of God's promise was necessarily hidden from Abraham and the Jews, because their hearts and minds were not ready to accept this message.  The message that God's love extends not only to His Chosen People, but also to the entire world.  This refusal to accept the salvation of the Gentiles has been stumbling block for the Jews since God first appointed Paul as His apostle to the Gentiles. 

 

Time and again in his letters to the early churches Paul reminds, corrects and disciplines his fellow Christians regarding which gospel is the truth.

He warns them that any other gospel than that of Jesus Christ is no gospel at all and that anyone preaching such a gospel is under God's curse.

 

Galatians 1 : 6 - 9

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

 

So, when the Gentile Christian Ironhorse concludes that the words, 'and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you' refers to the nation of Israel and not to Jesus Christ, he is making a grave error.

Since he is both a Christian of the New Covenant of the blood of Jesus Christ and a Gentile, he should agree with the words of Paul, God's appointed apostle to the Gentiles.  If Ironhorse were a Jew, then he could be forgiven for reading and interpreting Genesis 12 : 3 in purely patriarchal, Old Testament terms.  For thinking that God's promises refer only to the nation of Israel.

 

But since Ironhorse is a Gentile and not a Jew, he should read and interpret the book of Genesis as a Gentile Christian and not as a Jew.

In his letters Paul strongly reminded, reprimanded and disciplined  the early Gentile churches for their readiness to abandon the new covenant of Grace by going back to the old Jewish covenant of the Law.   In a similar way, Ironhorse has abandoned his Christ-centered, gospel understanding of Genesis 12 for a patriarchal, Jewish, Israel-centered one - in clear contradiction to Paul's revealed understanding from God.  I therefore strongly advise Ironhorse to admit his error, to withdraw his false conclusion and to bring his understanding into line with that of Paul's.  If he fails to do so then he will be preaching a gospel other than that of Jesus Christ and he will be putting himself under God's curse.  

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Jeff]

Beautifully explained in a way that even a 10 yr old would have trouble ignoring or dodging.

 

Only a dishonest religious adult will find a way to pretend that they don't get it. Just watch.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Ironhorse,

 

I feel certain that I am not the only person to have noticed that the bulk of your "answers" involve phrases such as "so-and-so has said", "such-and-such people believe", "here is an apologetic from this guy", and "this is what Rabbi Halal had to say on the subject".  In other words, most of your "answers" come from external sources.  What confuses me is that some time ago, you put forth the claim (honestly expecting us to believe it, I presume) that you had done a sincere and thorough skeptical analysis of your faith.  I'm confused by this because, as a general rule, when people are sincere in their skepticism as concerns any given subject, they will come up with one or two answers completely by their own independent thought.  Granted, some of these ideas are inspired by some of the thoughts others have shared with them, be it via book, blog, video, or here's some Dylan lyrics for you.  But, by simple dint of individual and unique thought patterns, each of us is capable of coming up with our own thoughts and opinions, provided, of course, that we have actually put some effort into objective rationality.

 

Why is it that you, having conducted your own "skeptical analysis" of you faith, have come up with zero answers of your own, and must rely upon the thoughts and of others to defend your faith?  This is a sincere question.  You may choose not to answer it here in this forum; but I encourage you to try to answer it for yourself.  Thanks.

 

Have a good day,

TheRedneckProfessor

[ironhorse]

Ironhorse,

 

I feel certain that I am not the only person to have noticed that the bulk of your "answers" involve phrases such as "so-and-so has said", "such-and-such people believe", "here is an apologetic from this guy", and "this is what Rabbi Halal had to say on the subject".  In other words, most of your "answers" come from external sources.  What confuses me is that some time ago, you put forth the claim (honestly expecting us to believe it, I presume) that you had done a sincere and thorough skeptical analysis of your faith.  I'm confused by this because, as a general rule, when people are sincere in their skepticism as concerns any given subject, they will come up with one or two answers completely by their own independent thought.  Granted, some of these ideas are inspired by some of the thoughts others have shared with them, be it via book, blog, video, or here's some Dylan lyrics for you.  But, by simple dint of individual and unique thought patterns, each of us is capable of coming up with our own thoughts and opinions, provided, of course, that we have actually put some effort into objective rationality.

 

Why is it that you, having conducted your own "skeptical analysis" of you faith, have come up with zero answers of your own, and must rely upon the thoughts and of others to defend your faith?  This is a sincere question.  You may choose not to answer it here in this forum; but I encourage you to try to answer it for yourself.  Thanks.

 

Have a good day,

TheRedneckProfessor

 

 

What “zero answers” of my own?

 

You may not agree with my answers, but they are my answers.

 

I have said yes to Christ. I am not trusting or relying on the views of others. The reading and searching I do now is not to convince me Christ is real, but to further my understanding.

 

To say that reading what others think is stupid is to ignore the reality that a lot of other people have said and written things that deserve our attention. 

If you search this site you will see a few dozen books and aricles by atheists and ex-Christians denouncing the existence of God and trashing the Christian faith. I would not censor nor ban such books.

 

Read them all!

 

I encourage every person to investigate every viewpoint.

[bornagainathiest]

 

Ironhorse,

 

I feel certain that I am not the only person to have noticed that the bulk of your "answers" involve phrases such as "so-and-so has said", "such-and-such people believe", "here is an apologetic from this guy", and "this is what Rabbi Halal had to say on the subject".  In other words, most of your "answers" come from external sources.  What confuses me is that some time ago, you put forth the claim (honestly expecting us to believe it, I presume) that you had done a sincere and thorough skeptical analysis of your faith.  I'm confused by this because, as a general rule, when people are sincere in their skepticism as concerns any given subject, they will come up with one or two answers completely by their own independent thought.  Granted, some of these ideas are inspired by some of the thoughts others have shared with them, be it via book, blog, video, or here's some Dylan lyrics for you.  But, by simple dint of individual and unique thought patterns, each of us is capable of coming up with our own thoughts and opinions, provided, of course, that we have actually put some effort into objective rationality.

 

Why is it that you, having conducted your own "skeptical analysis" of you faith, have come up with zero answers of your own, and must rely upon the thoughts and of others to defend your faith?  This is a sincere question.  You may choose not to answer it here in this forum; but I encourage you to try to answer it for yourself.  Thanks.

 

Have a good day,

TheRedneckProfessor

 

 

What “zero answers” of my own?

 

You may not agree with my answers, but they are my answers.

 

I have said yes to Christ. I am not trusting or relying on the views of others.

 

So why do you cut-and-paste the views of others when answering our questions?

 

 

 

 

The reading and searching I do now is not to convince me Christ is real, but to further my understanding.

 

To say that reading what others think is stupid is to ignore the reality that a lot of other people have said and written things that deserve our attention. 

If you search this site you will see a few dozen books and aricles by atheists and ex-Christians denouncing the existence of God and trashing the Christian faith. I would not censor nor ban such books.

 

Read them all!

 

I encourage every person to investigate every viewpoint.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

You can lead a Horse to Scripture; but you can't make him think.

[Jeff]

IH = the artful dodger

"What da ya mean I don't answer questions? I'm answering you right now?"

(As he ignores the HUGE looming dilemma that has been carefully explained as the vital question and laid at his dishonest feet)

[Jeff]

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm

 

 

"Artful Dodger is a nimble and elusive Warrior. When strongly attacked he changes the subject with a diversionary counterattack. For example, if in a moment of pique his opponent refers to him to him as a "sonofabitch", Artful Dodger will not only demand a public apology for the insult to his own mother, but will castigate his opponent on behalf all mothers everywhere. Knowing full well that staying on topic works to his disadvantage, Artful Dodger will not allow himself to be pinned down."

[bornagainathiest]

 

Ironhorse,

 

I feel certain that I am not the only person to have noticed that the bulk of your "answers" involve phrases such as "so-and-so has said", "such-and-such people believe", "here is an apologetic from this guy", and "this is what Rabbi Halal had to say on the subject".  In other words, most of your "answers" come from external sources.  What confuses me is that some time ago, you put forth the claim (honestly expecting us to believe it, I presume) that you had done a sincere and thorough skeptical analysis of your faith.  I'm confused by this because, as a general rule, when people are sincere in their skepticism as concerns any given subject, they will come up with one or two answers completely by their own independent thought.  Granted, some of these ideas are inspired by some of the thoughts others have shared with them, be it via book, blog, video, or here's some Dylan lyrics for you.  But, by simple dint of individual and unique thought patterns, each of us is capable of coming up with our own thoughts and opinions, provided, of course, that we have actually put some effort into objective rationality.

 

Why is it that you, having conducted your own "skeptical analysis" of you faith, have come up with zero answers of your own, and must rely upon the thoughts and of others to defend your faith?  This is a sincere question.  You may choose not to answer it here in this forum; but I encourage you to try to answer it for yourself.  Thanks.

 

Have a good day,

TheRedneckProfessor

 

 

What “zero answers” of my own?

 

You may not agree with my answers, but they are my answers.

 

I have said yes to Christ. I am not trusting or relying on the views of others. The reading and searching I do now is not to convince me Christ is real, but to further my understanding.

 

To say that reading what others think is stupid is to ignore the reality that a lot of other people have said and written things that deserve our attention. 

If you search this site you will see a few dozen books and aricles by atheists and ex-Christians denouncing the existence of God and trashing the Christian faith. I would not censor nor ban such books.

 

Read them all!

 

I encourage every person to investigate every viewpoint.

 

 

Why should they bother investigating, Ironhorse?

 

Surely they should follow your example and simply decide that "nothing" will ever cause them to change their minds.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why would you ask Pastor Matthew? Was it because you asked jesus and never got an answer?

~ TheRedneckProfessor

 

You might see some sleazy false preachers on TV claiming to now hear the audible voice of God, but you should know I’m not one of them.

 

Brutal TRP, brutal biggrin.png

Ironhorse, my dear friend! You are back! Please see the other threads in the den and respond to BAA and myself.

Thanks

~ LF

 

Thanks, things have just been busy lately. I hope to spend more time here this week and onward. I am working on some replies to you, BAA and others. I will post soon.

 

But neither your brother nor you are Jews or Messianic Jews, Ironhorse.  You are both Gentiles. 

And Paul (the apostle to the Gentiles) asks the Gentile church of Galatia if they received the Holy Spirit by going back to the Old Testament ways of the Jews.

~ bornagainathiest

 

Did you not read the Messianic Jewish site I posted on this subject?

 

And did you not read what I wrote about you not being either a Jew or a Messianic Jew?

 

You, a Gentile Christian, posted an exclusively Jewish interpretation of Genesis 12 : 3, in your OP.

 

Which, as Paul explains to the Galatians and Ephesians, is not the full and proper understanding that a Gentile Christian should either hold to or preach publicly.

 

Your way is the way of Christ, not the way of the nation of Israel.

 

That way is held to only by the Jews and they neither accept, believe in nor honor Jesus Christ. 

 

So, by publicly preaching Israel over Christ like this you are making the same kind of error as the churches of Ephesus and Galatia.

.

.

.

Posting a link to a Messianic Jewish site doesn't alter the fact that for 31 days you were publicly preaching this error.

 

Furthermore, if I hadn't prodded you into action with repeated requests for a reply and then finally a private message, you'd STILL BE publicly preaching this error.

 

And please don't respond by saying that you 'weren't preaching', Ironhorse.

 

You wrote and put this information out there, for all to read.

 

So, it's your responsibility.

 

 

.

.

.

You may not to be sleazy, false preacher ...but you do handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence.

 

Or would you care to dispute that, Ironhorse?

 

 

 

Ironhorse,

 

Would you care to dispute that you handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence?

 

 

(Bump!)

 

 

(Re-bump!)

 

 

(Re-re-bump!)

 

 

(Re-re-re-bump!)

 

 

(Re-re--re-bump!)

[ironhorse]

Would you care to dispute that you handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence?

~ BAA

 

 

You see the thing is, I actually believe God exists. I believe Jesus Christ is not only alive, but will return to this earth one day. I believe the scriptures contain God’s message.

So it is a big deal with me. If I incorrectly use or represent the scriptures or its message, I pray for forgiveness. It is not my intention.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to pray for guidance to correctly interpret the scripture; rather than forgiveness for incorrectly interpreting it?

 

I mean, if prayer actually worked, of course.

[bornagainathiest]

Would you care to dispute that you handle God's word irresponsibly, with carelessness and negligence?

~ BAA

 

 

You see the thing is, I actually believe God exists. I believe Jesus Christ is not only alive, but will return to this earth one day. I believe the scriptures contain God’s message.

So it is a big deal with me. If I incorrectly use or represent the scriptures or its message, I pray for forgiveness. It is not my intention.

 

God cannot be harmed or made to stumble by any misrepresentation of the scriptures you might make, Ironhorse.

 

However, any person reading your words in this thread... can be.

 

Praying for God to forgive you does nothing to help them.

 

The only beneficiary of your prayer is... you.

 

So, if this really is a big deal with you, what will you do in this thread to help others?