Asimov Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Ok guys. Say you're debating a Christian, right? And all they do is make unsubstantiated claims and arguments, like quoting from the bible or saying "heaven is great!" and "god exists you sinner", you know...shit like that. Well, here's what you do, just negate everything they say. It pisses em off, and you're doing the same thing they do. You KNOW that they are not interested in a good discussion so why not fuck with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Yep, I agree that most of the time, when they come to a site like this...it is truly not for real information....it is usually to mess with people like us. It does get frustrating too at times...they never can open thier minds...even just a little bitty amount to actually admit that you might be right!! I just left not long ago and this site has TRULY been helping me a lot in the deconversion process. It really is a deconversion...as I had came to realize I was so brainwashed!!! You go to a lot of sites, don't you? I think I read that somewhere..you had mentioned it. Do you ever have fundies come here? Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 9, 2005 Author Share Posted April 9, 2005 Yep, I agree that most of the time, when they come to a site like this...it is truly not for real information....it is usually to mess with people like us. It does get frustrating too at times...they never can open thier minds...even just a little bitty amount to actually admit that you might be right!! I just left not long ago and this site has TRULY been helping me a lot in the deconversion process. It really is a deconversion...as I had came to realize I was so brainwashed!!! You go to a lot of sites, don't you? I think I read that somewhere..you had mentioned it. Do you ever have fundies come here? Lisa I lurk around a few, post mostly at Christianforums.com and Christianforums.net. Sometimes I go to Theologyweb, or ravingatheist, or faithless community fundies rarely come here, they're scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 I lurk around a few, post mostly at Christianforums.com and Christianforums.net. Sometimes I go to Theologyweb, or ravingatheist, or faithless community fundies rarely come here, they're scared. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> May I ask how long you were part of the christian community before you converted? What did it for you? I also would like to find out if there are any relatviely new ex-christains here that I can discuss with.....issues that have now come up for me. Have any idea? Sorry for hi-jacking your thread. Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 9, 2005 Author Share Posted April 9, 2005 May I ask how long you were part of the christian community before you converted?What did it for you? I also would like to find out if there are any relatviely new ex-christains here that I can discuss with.....issues that have now come up for me. Have any idea? Sorry for hi-jacking your thread. Lisa I was never a Christian, so I've never converted or deconverted. I changed my stance almost a year ago from agnostic atheist to strong atheist. If you wish to discuss with new ex-c's, I'd suggest posting an invitation for newbies in one of the sections here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 good idea, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Possibly an effective tactic, I'll have to test it out at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areformedthinker Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 As a Christian, I have to admit that the Bible is my athority, so I would have to say "the Bible says." If I did not, I would be trying to make a claim from a foundation other then what I consider my athority, and that does not make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyby Stardancer Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 The problem comes up when we ask for proof of your arguments, and then show how your Bible is not a good authority and we need more evidence than that when you back up your claims. If the Bible is your only authority, then you can never convince us who are thinking rationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Also to add here that the bible contradicts itself all over the place. Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- AUB - Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Actually it cancels itself out. I'm working on a essay that shows this. Also a dissection of the gospels, gunna take ages to do though, my bussiness takes priority. Asimov, good to see other strong atheists here, man we are so miss-understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 12, 2005 Author Share Posted April 12, 2005 really...I'd be very interested in reading that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scitsofreaky Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 I'm working on a essay that shows this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You should put it up when you get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ExistanceOfEvil Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Actually it cancels itself out. I'm working on a essay that shows this. Also a dissection of the gospels, gunna take ages to do though, my bussiness takes priority. Asimov, good to see other strong atheists here, man we are so miss-understood. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would like to see this too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- AUB - Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Thanks, I'm getting into the head of Matthew so as to understand his motives and goals for his gospel, its quite funny, he was a Lee Strobel of his time. I take long walks through a cemetery at night and go over it in my head, plotting the down fall of xtianity surrounded by crucifixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areformedthinker Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I would actually love to read this essay as well when you get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 May I ask how long you were part of the christian community before you converted?What did it for you? I also would like to find out if there are any relatviely new ex-christains here that I can discuss with.....issues that have now come up for me. Have any idea? Sorry for hi-jacking your thread. Lisa <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was a Christian for nearly 30 years, and started to deconvert a few months ago. I'll discuss whatever you want, but I have limited time. A PM or e-mail might be best. I would prefer to not air out all of my personal info since I still have close friends that are unaware of my new identity (hence the Emperor avatar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Well, here's what you do, just negate everything they say.... ...or quote the Quran tit for tat. ...or demand that they prove they are a real christian and raise the dead or move a fricken mountian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 15, 2005 Author Share Posted April 15, 2005 or you could just wedgie them and run away laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francois Tremblay Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Here's a way to refute a Christian quickly. A : Your morality is subjective. C : No ! It's based on the God's Word. A : Did God create the universe ? C : Of course. A : So it is entirely a product of God's will, which makes it subjective to God. That's what "subjective" means. Therefore everything that God says is subjective. C : But God is unchanging, and his words are unchanging. A : So ? That has nothing to do with his words being subjective. Whether you like it or not, it is still a creation of God's will. C : Um... God is unchanging ! A: Yes... ? C : ... A : So your morality is subjective. C : No... you can't have morality without the Ten Commandments ! You're just a bunch of atoms banging around ! Bla bla God bla bla free will bla bla Scriptures ! A : Good grief. I guess that didn't really work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 As I'm sure most of you know, I think the most important point to keep in mind when debating real Christians is that they CANNOT admit defeat on any significant point. As part of their belief system, they MUST continue to believe what they they've based their faith on. For them to give in to any major point is to admit their belief is wrong! I know, that seems obvious (and circular), but it's something they cannot easily do and remain a Christian. For a Christian to admit Jesus may never have lived, or the gospel accounts are false, would be like taking one of their children away! They are too emotionally attached, too commited to the belief, and have way too much to lose (socially, family, ego, etc). The greatest benefit to debating them is to show them and anyone watching what the truth is, and give it time to brew in their minds. Maybe at a later date they will be able to mentally admit that maybe they were wrong. They will either start to reject their entire world view or go back to the apologist websites/church leaders/Christian bookstore and reenforce what was in doubt. They could then digest a new pile of garbage that will strengthen their faith, and give them fresh material to leave around the yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfunkman Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 As a Christian, I have to admit that the Bible is my athority, so I would have to say "the Bible says." If I did not, I would be trying to make a claim from a foundation other then what I consider my athority, and that does not make sense to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If "god" decide to actually speak to you for the first time in your life and he asked you to kill someone that you love, I take it that you would actually do it. Even Abraham agreed to kill his beloved son just because "god" asked him to. Sick, sick perverted "god". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- AUB - Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Kryten Yes, that is one of the 1st things i said the 1st time I was "ambushed" by a fundy here, they cannot be changed, but the demonstration to others of why they are wrong is very valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Kryten Yes, that is one of the 1st things i said the 1st time I was "ambushed" by a fundy here, they cannot be changed, but the demonstration to others of why they are wrong is very valuable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I totally agree. It's also always good for the truth to be told wherever possible, regardless of whether it's received or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Dave Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 If "god" decide to actually speak to you for the first time in your life and he asked you to kill someone that you love, I take it that you would actually do it. Even Abraham agreed to kill his beloved son just because "god" asked him to. Sick, sick perverted "god". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think in the case of Abraham in the biblical narrative, the response of Abraham was conditioned by an already initiated dialogue with God. God did not simply pop up one day without a prior introduction, demanding obedience. It likely was a surprise to Abraham in content. However, the overall focal point of the narrative is that God did not allow Abraham to follow through...that is the punch line of the narrative, NOT that God asked Abraham to do the unspeakable. If the narrative where to proceed more in the way that God showed up, asking Abraham to sacrifice his son, and then the conclusion has Abraham succeeding, then it would seem that a claim of 'sickness' could be made, being that in this case, we sympathize with Isaac, in that is seems he was innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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