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Another doozy from Desiring God


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Here is a broadside against the evils of two women being too close as friends.

 

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/more-than-bffs

 

And the author, Kelly Needham, doesn't even "go there" into denunciation of lesbians. She just thinks it makes the baby Jesus cry if a woman is too close to a friend. That's a sin that must be confessed and renounced.

 

I admit there can be too much clinginess in a friendship. But this stuff is just sad. 

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I am speechless.

 

I have seen a lot of weird stuff in the Christian world, and this definitely fits right in there. Clearly this woman hasn't read too much of the Bible because what she's written could arguably make David and Jonathan's friendship wrong. Looks like nothing more than her desire to share what she thinks about the world through "God's eyes". I agree. Its just sad.

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Wow - if a best friend threatens the specialness of your relationship with Jesus, what the hell does having a sweetheart or a spouse do to it? 

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This article hits to the heart of many doctrines: That is God must come first and above all else. You must love God more than your mother, father, spouse, partner, and friend. And if you don't you are a sinner.

 

They are essentially saying put this being of which you have no real contact above all real relationships.

 

This is not a problem... until someone you should care more about steps outside the church line. Then mothers, fathers, spouses and friends reject those they should care about because an ancient book says to love something you have no proof for more than your own self.

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I note the author is married with children, Her own Bible says that her husband and children should abandon her. 

 

Bet she wouldn't like that to happen, in her Christ centred life.

 

 

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It's not going to go down well for her kids if one of them turns out to be gay or to think independently or something.

 

Or on the other hand, maybe she'll love her children enough to put them above the dogmas in her head.

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While I agree with the sentiment that one should not look to one's friends for the meaning, purpose, and contentment which should come from within one's self, I don't see how looking to an imaginary friend instead is a viable alternative.  At least a real friend is... real.

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Dear lord. These Christian articles are deliberately written to make people feel guilty. "Are you sure you're not sinning against your lord and savior Jesus Christ, who suffered for your iniquities? Are you sure? Better check again."

 

And they're even more insidious because they are written to sound so wise and insightful, and sometimes are partially true. Friends can get too clingy and dependent on each other. Some of these warning signs listed are actual red flags.

 

A couple of them ask if friends use "nicknames or special language with each other," and if they are "more physically affectionate than with other friends." That sounds crazy to me. Relationships are unique; some are closer than others. There's nothing evil in having a special bond with a particular person who isn't also a boyfriend or girlfriend.

 

This thing repeatedly describes people as universally "broken" and needing to confess what they've done wrong. What a disgusting way to view oneself and others. And it further drives in the implication that people always have to be searching for how they've disappointed Jesus.

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On 3/2/2017 at 7:30 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

This article hits to the heart of many doctrines: That is God must come first and above all else. You

 

They are essentially saying put this being of which you have no real contact above all real relationships.

 

This is not a problem... until someone you should care more about steps outside the church line. Then mothers, fathers, spouses and friends reject those they should care about because an ancient book says to love something you have no proof for more than your own self.

Wow, there is so much great stuff in this thread.  What I quoted above really resonated with me because I am feeling the destructiveness of this "prioritize the imaginary relationship over the real one" in my marriage.  My wife an I really should be so happy right now - we are both healthy, smart, financial very comfortable,  we are great friends, we share the same political views and core values, we like the same foods, tv shows, travel destinations,  etc.  We should be loving life and sucking the frickin' marrow out of it while we are young (ish) and able...  but instead she is basically the walking dead - convinced that she wI'll only be hopelessly empty for the rest of our lives because she is married to an unbeliever.  It's utter misery for her.  She has no "spiritual leader" and anything I say to comfort her is met with "you can't understand because you're not a believer".   What I wouldn't give for her to see through the insanity of her belief system...   

 

And, thank you Lillith for your observation :  these articles create guilt in the believer - I love how you exposed that.  "Are you SURE you didn't disappoint Jesus?".  Thanks Lillith.  I really appreciate all of your posts - I track with you almost perfectly and share so many of your observations and emotions.

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This brings back so many arguments and issues I had or witnessed as a Christian!  I remember being in a college group that argued over whether a person should love god or his/her spouse more.  It got remarkably heated!  I remember my best friend, whose husband was in ministry, complaining about how much time he spent traveling and meeting with college students instead of being with the family.  I was conflicted, because Paul said that ideally, no one should marry, but stay single so they could focus solely on god and His work.  Her husband was demonstrating exactly why no one, but especially those called to service, should get married.  They're naturally torn between service to god and service to family.  What a mess!

 

Of course, if they followed Paul, they would end up like the Shakers and slowly die off.  So how does the commandment to be fruitful and multiply gel with putting god first?  Would not Mr. Duggar be guilty of sin for putting his own carnal needs before god the 19 times he made babies with his wife (as fertile as that couple are, it might have only taken the 19 times!  ?)?

 

It would be a terribly lonely life confiding in no one but god, and potentially mental breakdown-inducing, considering you're only talking to yourself when you do talk to god!

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2 hours ago, Tsathoggua9 said:

Well, this is all quite nutty! Some people just enjoy trying to make other feel guilty about anything and everything, it seems. Lunatics!

Nutty? Yes! But also kinda drifts into abuse, eh?

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WOW!

 

This article seems to be doing everything it can to deprive , not just lonely people, but most of us, of what they/we need most in life. A friend!

 

The person who wrote this is a sick fuck!

 

 

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As a child I had (And still have) a very keen interest in fishing.

 

I was told that I was putting fishing above God, and that books like "Fishing is life" were bad. This is the insanity of religion.

 

We got to the point where books/movies etc regardless of their content were not allowed because the author might be a sinner. Wholesale favourite childhood books were purged from our household. Games were wiped.

 

My sister had her Disney princess collected biffed (She hid one or two which survives to this day), my star wars games were obliterated.

 

Yep, religion can be a real doozy

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     Why is a woman trying to teach about what appears to be religious matters?

 

          mwc

 

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1 hour ago, mwc said:

     Why is a woman trying to teach about what appears to be religious matters?

 

          mwc

 

 It's 2017 man, get with the drift! That stuff Paul spoke about, gahh 2,000 years ago. Poppycock... except the Jesus bit. :P

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1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

 It's 2017 man, get with the drift! That stuff Paul spoke about, gahh 2,000 years ago. Poppycock... except the Jesus bit. :P

     You'll drag me kicking and screaming out of the XXX's!

 

          mwc

 

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If all Christians followed this advice they'd be the most mediocre people in the world. To be really good at something you have to give it all your effort. For example, being a great pianist or surgeon or skateboarder. But for Christians, that would constitute idolatry. They are only allowed to be good at praying, reading the bible, and witnessing. Sure, they can be sort of good at "secular" things, but only if they use it as a witnessing tool. Like they will try to be the best at something but only so when someone asks how did you get so good at that, they can say "The Lord."

 

I may be wrong, but I think this mindset makes Christian people afraid to ever excel at anything.

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My Old Man was a religious mania(c), following whatever seemed to please him at THAT moment in his life. As an enlisted man in US Navy we moved from station throughout my young life. Some places had Brand G, others were Y, one even was a JEW 11!!!!!!One!!111!. Dad settled on LDSism as he and Mom has joined up earlier in life, refound system when proselytized again.

Easy life of an agnostic kid suddenly ended when every Weds and Sun we HAD to play dress up, me in an ill fitting suit and never large enough dress shoes. Forcing this kid to sit on a weekend, usually spent on bicycle, chasing neighbor girls, and generally being neighborhood lawn mowing kid... Stopped. 

Those in CHURCH trying to compel a useless almost teen boy (who wore his dick out playing with it as munkeez on Marlin Perkins show did!) to conform to strict purity, dress, and morality codes did not stick. Old man was pleased to have a spot like his Masonry, to advance and in turn be more accepted into the group of self important assholes.

My last day at that particular LDS Ward (Pensacola FL 1st on 9th) resulted from me punching back the Scout leader whose greeting to anyone he felt "needed it" was a hard punch to upper arm with his captured SS Deaths Head ring, usually leaving an imprint. Hair too long, not shaved my thickening nascent mustache, and being an overall prick "earned" me the 'Mark of Gordon'.

Little known to uncaring Dad had been studying with neighbor in his garage dojo, learning how to defend myself (Mom was a dedicated pacifist). When I hit back, didn't knock him down, did hear later his gold crowns came loose on left side.

Long stupid story short, got on my bike, then an K model Sportster and left loudly. Wasn't licensed at 15, just rode it anyway. FTW! (Was on way to prospecting for local patched Club)

 

After Mom died, Old Man did lessen up quite a bit, however that damage of conflicted messages and ideas had set their memes. I tried many many assorted bodies of worship trying to fit in. Finally went to an AoG church finding it cool and relaxed. Still too many fucking rules about personal things, including personal use of my crank... Left that, went to study under John Schafer a friend of Rushdoony. Dunno why, calvinism after most of a year left me cold in its structure and restrictions.

 

Left there, came up with idea that whatever happens in my life is just gonna happen. Do what I can so as not to fuck others over, stay unattached to religiosity, enjoy life.

 

If you've read all this, apologies for windiness. Life laid a path for me that offered no answers to Big Questions, just clues as why doing well for others elevated with them. Other than that, cash spent on "Church" in one lump sum would pay off my home, buy me that restored '57 FLH, and get kid through his eDuMushkashuns...

 

Have good heart recently escaped folks, life gets better as bonds thin and eventually break. Liberty may just be another word, however used in context with Freedom it means Life.

 

kevinL

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53 minutes ago, SkipNChurch said:

...came up with idea that whatever happens in my life is just gonna happen. Do what I can so as not to fuck others over, stay unattached to religiosity, enjoy life.

 

Exactly!!!   

 

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Jebus is my very best close personal friend (say it like Forest Gump).

 

I have a collection of quotes from various sources in response to almost every line of crap a Christian manufactures. This thread reminded me of this one:

 

 

"I have a deep, personal relationship with Jesus Christ."

Do you gag as much as I do at hearing this pious crap?

 

I've known my sister for over 6 decades. Although I live in Tampa and she lives in Boise, so we only see each other every couple of years, I can tell you:
 • how tall she is.
 • what color her eyes are.
 • what color and how curly her hair is.
 • the different kinds of prescription drugs she takes, and what for.
 • which parts of her have been operated on.
 • which colleges she attended.
 • what jobs she's held.
 • what cities she's lived in.
 • what her hobbies are.
 • the names and breeds of the various dogs and cats she's had thru the years.
 • her favorite sports teams, and which one she has season tickets for.
 • the TV programs she watches regularly.
 • that it's her on the phone just from the sound of her voice.
 • her attitude toward eating meat.
 • whom she voted for in the last presidential election.
 • what kind of medical care she wants in case of a terminal illness.
 • her favorite color.
 • and about 50 other things.

 

Now that's a personal relationship. Could any of you Bible-thumpers manage even half a dozen comparable answers about your "deep, personal friend" Jesus? And, even assuming your overwrought imagination could in fact gin up a few stabs at them, what are chances that they'd agree with any other equally deluded True Believer? OTOH, you could ask any of my sister's other good friends about the above characteristics, and they'd give you the exact same answers I would. That's because my sister, unlike your Jesus, is real — a 3-dimensional, flesh-and-blood, living, breathing, real-world human being, with a life, preferences, substance, and history.

So, Mr. or Ms. True Believer, let's say you're walking across the mall one day, you see your good buddy Jesus in a crowd of folks ahead of you, and you holler "Hey, J, dude, wait up!". Would he?

Let's not kid ourselves. This would never even happen because there's no way you'd be able to pick Jesus out of a crowd. Heck, you couldn't pick him out of a 1-person lineup. You wouldn't know him if he walked up to you on the street and handed you his business card. (In fact, it would tickle me pink to see your reaction if somebody actually did exactly that.)

So we both know exactly what your claim to have a "deep, personal relationship with Jesus Christ" is. It's bullshit. You know it's bullshit. Everybody else knows it's bullshit. The only reason you keep on repeating this bullshit is because it's the slogan of the club that some con artist or charlatan has suckered you into believing you really want to be a member of. All you have to do is keep repeating the magic bullshit phrase "I have a deep, personal relationship with Jesus Christ" and you can keep going to the club meetings. (Provided you keep paying the dues, too; let's not forget what's really important here.)

But don't think that repeating that phrase is going to win you anything but contempt or possibly some degree of pity from anyone with a functioning brain. All you're really demonstrating is that you don't know diddly about real relationships or the way the real world really works. You are, in short, a pathetic dupe. And full of bullshit to boot.

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