Truth set me free

[Guest]

Hey everyone, I feel like I have to write a little bit more about my experiences particularly as I don’t have a lot of opportunity to talk about what going through this de-conversion process is like, although I feel a need to.

 

 

I grew up in a smaller, protestant, fundamentalist church likely not known to any of you. My childhood and teenage years revolved around the church. I never questioned the church and its teachings. In hindsight I see how thoroughly my siblings and I were indoctrinated. Church, bible class, Sunday school, summer camps, trips to other countries where the church also operated. Until recently I’ve mostly looked back on my childhood fondly. We have a loving, close-knit family, and this has been a plus, until the ideologies and doctrines and endless rules of fundamentalism begin to be questioned and one wants to exit.

 

Growing up, I felt different from the majority around me, and knew I was different. I didn’t watch TV. No piercings, makeup, movies, dancing or rock concerts. I was one of the few saved in this world, different from my classmates or peers (others weren’t saved, not even other Christians).  The church told us the world hated and misunderstood us. However I had a few close friends in the church and the church community as well as family, and this was enough.

 

 

If life would have taken me on a rather smooth path without any difficulties, I would still be a Christian today. I was a sincere believer and the faith itself felt right to me most of the time. I thought the church was my main source of security. But life doesn’t work that way, it’s messy and painful and God does not have the answers.

 

 

My older sister left the church first. It was devastating for all of us still in the church. Any ex-believer knows the pain of this, having a family member leave the church and believing that they are bound for hell. The anxiety on their behalf. Having your parents blame themselves. My sister was depressed and attempted suicide shortly before leaving the church. The sense of guilt and shame over her sin was too much for her. However, being a model believer myself, I refused to see or examine this connection with sin and mental health in any depth myself.

 

 

As a young adult I was diagnosed with a chronic pain disorder, which has worsened over the years. I was able to complete university, however it's a tough go financially and I would not be able to do it without family support.  Through these years I prayed to God to help me deal with the challenges and accept my life as it was. I wondered what I had done to deserve them. I dealt with all the “we don’t know God’s ways, they are a mystery. This has some purpose” comments, which frankly, are not helpful for those who suffer or deal with pain. In the last few years I have had other health complications that have forced me to confront the issue of my own mortality. It was this that finally drove me to the big questions.

 

 

Dealing with mortality and death is a funny thing. Of course I heard from the pulpit every Sunday that the end of the world is near, that it could come any time and we had better be ready. But it had little impact on me in comparison to sitting in the doctor’s office and discussing risks, and of having to face my own mortality head on.  We all tend to think we’re invincible, until we know we’re not, and time is limited.

 

 

Why, God, why? Why me? Why, on top of all the other crap life has handed me? Have I done something to deserve this? These questions rang in my head for weeks, and there were no answers. God was silent. My friends had lots of the “it’s all in God’s hands” answers, which for me, resulted in an internal rage I could not express, because it was inappropriate. At this time I knew it was time to find a therapist, and begin to deal with the issues.

 

 

I know the damage that religion deals out in regards to emotional stress, first hand. When another sibling with whom I am particularly close left the church, the emotional toll for me was much worse.

 

 

Why is there no recognition for the mental health problems religion causes? My anxiety and depression were not only caused by my health challenges but by the needless anxiety and the real belief that people I love are going to spend an eternity in hell. However, I did not have the tools to even begin to question my religion until my therapist was wise enough to suggest to me that I read Richard Dawkins. After Dawkins I read voraciously, and I am not finished with all the books I downloaded, but what I have read has finally opened my eyes to the truth.

 

 

Who wouldn’t want to believe in a world where death is simply that – death. No eternal punishment. No eternal rejoicing. No reward or punishment for belief or non-belief. No judgmental, unjust, petty God who is indifferent to, and even worse, allows suffering and horror to occur on this earth. Or orders it himself. No fraction of a million people here on this earth who will be saved and a majority who will suffer forever for simply being born on the wrong side of the planet within the wrong faith. The truth set me free, at last. I was not somehow responsible for my pain. God had no purpose in it. Terrible things happen to good people, no further explanation required. Best of all, I regained a healthier relationship with those in my family I thought lost forever. What a crime religion is, setting family against family and splitting it right down the middle. And the Christians who are left will argue that it is those leaving who have misplaced their love.

 

This is still a process for me, and I am still in the church in the sense that only a couple people are aware of my non-belief. The costs of leaving are high, and I worry how high, and of the toll it will take on myself and on my parents, for whom the church is everything. I know I would be vulnerable to emotional abuse by family members and would likely receive it if I left openly. They would feel emotional abuse is justified. However, living a lie is also difficult. Do we not deserve the best lives, the greatest happiness we can attain, in the time we have? The hardest thing for me is maintaining my ‘belief’ while dealing with the control mechanisms the church exercises, not only in the form of preaching from the pulpit but of members ‘policing’ each other through the form of gossip masquerading as ‘concern’ for each other. When religion is so intertwined in your life that is IS largely your life, maintaining the façade is extremely difficult particularly in relations with family members who are still in the church. It becomes a battle between your own needs and the cost of dealing with the fallout should you make your beliefs public. I know dealing with my own needs and wanting to build my own kind of life will eventually prevail, but it could be at great personal cost.

 

In conclusion I’ve a few questions. Has anyone else experienced problems with personal boundaries? How do you deal with people overstepping personal boundaries in the name of Christian ‘love’?

[Shinobi]

On 3/22/2017 at 10:40 PM, TruthSeeker0 said:

Why is there no recognition for the mental health problems religion causes? My anxiety and depression were not only caused by my health challenges but by the needless anxiety and the real belief that people I love are going to spend an eternity in hell. However, I did not have the tools to even begin to question my religion until my therapist was wise enough to suggest to me that I read Richard Dawkins. After Dawkins I read voraciously, and I am not finished with all the books I downloaded, but what I have read has finally opened my eyes to the truth.

 

[\;',./'[

[Geezer]

Sadly, for those of us that have been indoctrinated by some strict fundamentalists group, our stories are often similar. Leaving groups like that is often one of the most difficult things you will ever have to do in your life. These type of religious fundamentalists are dangerous cults & getting away from them is difficult both physically & emotionally. 

 

There is no easy way to accomplish this. Loss of social structure is a certainty & loss of family, or at least some parts of your family, is also likely. Deconversion is a journey not an event & it often takes years to get all the indoctrinated garbage they put in your head out, and your post indicates you're headed in the right direction. 

 

Sites likes this where you can find like minded people, who have had similar experiences, should be helpful. We've all been there & done that. I don't need to tell you this isn't going to be an easy journey or a pleasant experience. Your dependency on family will make your journey all the more difficult, but not impossible. 

 

You probably need to get out of the environment you're in, but it sounds like that might not be possible unless your sisters can help. Like you the truth set me free too, but my children were grown & had left religion right after high school, so my journey was easier. My wife is still a believer but we've been able to work all of that out. I was able to convince her to leave fundamentalism & join the Methodist Church. She is happy there and has accepted that I'm not a believer.

 

Lots of good & really smart folks here to give you support. This is a good place to vent. Glad you found us. It will all work out for you but it will take time.

[florduh]

Quote

 

When religion is so intertwined in your life that is IS largely your life, maintaining the façade is extremely difficult particularly in relations with family members who are still in the church. It becomes a battle between your own needs and the cost of dealing with the fallout should you make your beliefs public. I know dealing with my own needs and wanting to build my own kind of life will eventually prevail, but it could be at great personal cost.

 

In conclusion I’ve a few questions. Has anyone else experienced problems with personal boundaries? How do you deal with people overstepping personal boundaries in the name of Christian ‘love’?

 

 

On this topic, I am the hard ass around here. For me at least, a false peace based on a lie and conditional love (not love at all but manipulation) is an unacceptable way to live. My right to an opinion is on equal footing with that of believers. I cannot place greater value on maintaining half assed relationships with toxic people than I place on honesty, integrity, equality and freedom. Those who do not think you have an equal right to an opinion may become genuinely distressed, act distressed, feign disappointment, try emotional manipulation to get their way, or exhibit outright rejection or hatred at your audacity to disagree with them. Fuck 'em. (See? That's the hard ass part!)

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, florduh said:

 

On this topic, I am the hard ass around here. For me at least, a false peace based on a lie and conditional love (not love at all but manipulation) is an unacceptable way to live. My right to an opinion is on equal footing with that of believers. I cannot place greater value on maintaining half assed relationships with toxic people than I place on honesty, integrity, equality and freedom. Those who do not think you have an equal right to an opinion may become genuinely distressed, act distressed, feign disappointment, try emotional manipulation to get their way, or exhibit outright rejection or hatred at your audacity to disagree with them. Fuck 'em. (See? That's the hard ass part!)

 

I agree with having an equal right to an opinion. Unfortunately fundies simply don't get this as they are always in the right. If I was living on my own right now these decisions would be so much easier, but I'm not. I'd be dealing with the emotional manipulation day in and day out, which is not what i want to do as there are several other stressors for me as it is. So as much as I get your point, it's also a matter of maintaining my sanity.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Shinobi said:

 However, it wasn't until I was able to properly educate myself on the subject in college that I finally gained enough confidence to finally leave it all behind.  Christianity, to a great extent, relies on its followers remaining ignorant about how the world really works. 

 

You are really fortunate that you had a therapist who was both brave enough and willing enough to introduce you to Dawkins.  I've probably said enough for now.  I wish you all the best on this new journey that you are undertaking.  It won't always be easy, but in the long run, it will totally be worth it.

Yes, ignorance is bliss for Christians. My family put value on education, however I know plenty of others that don't. Education is probably what saved me in the long run. There's only so much information you can input before the cognitive dissonance becomes difficult to deal with. Now that we have the internet and information at our fingertips, maybe Christianity will begin to lose its grip on people. However, I don't think it's all about education. People will still choose to ignore the information that doesn't fit with their worldview and use the information that does to validate their beliefs. I was an excellent example. It's only when life starts handing out a few challenges or you're lucky enough to have spare time to even think about the big picture that you might find yourself having some questions.

I'm choosing to believe that this will be worth it in the long run. Thanks for your kind words.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Geezer said:

There is no easy way to accomplish this. Loss of social structure is a certainty & loss of family, or at least some parts of your family, is also likely. Deconversion is a journey not an event & it often takes years to get all the indoctrinated garbage they put in your head out, and your post indicates you're headed in the right direction. 

Yes, at the back of my mind there is the "what if they are right" thought, but I'm reading Marlene Winell's excellent book and she does a great job describing why these thoughts are normal and part of the de-conversion process. I've seen this process with two siblings, so I have some idea what to expect, I know it will take years. When I start fearing that I might be vulnerable to the brainwashing, all I have to do is take a read through the rant I wrote regarding original sin and the nature of God, and I know that I cannot see a way back. Once you dissect the core of Christianity, it's difficult, probably impossible to believe it, unless you can ignore your own inborn sense of ethics and justice.

7 hours ago, Geezer said:

You probably need to get out of the environment you're in, but it sounds like that might not be possible unless your sisters can help.

 

Lots of good & really smart folks here to give you support. This is a good place to vent. Glad you found us. It will all work out for you but it will take time.

I know the environment has to change, and it helps to have a plan even if implementing it is more of a long-term process. Support from people who know where you're at makes all the difference, and that's why this corner of the internet is so great. Thanks for your kind words.

[florduh]

Quote

I agree with having an equal right to an opinion. Unfortunately fundies simply don't get this as they are always in the right.

Fundies aren't the only ones who seem to not get it. (Not directing this specifically at you.)

 

I don't know your situation, but I would add that if you are a dependent minor, the implication necessarily is that you must live under someone else's rules if you want to receive their benefits. An adult who is not dependent on anyone for their survival is another animal altogether.

[LogicalFallacy]

6 hours ago, florduh said:

 

On this topic, I am the hard ass around here. For me at least, a false peace based on a lie and conditional love (not love at all but manipulation) is an unacceptable way to live. My right to an opinion is on equal footing with that of believers. I cannot place greater value on maintaining half assed relationships with toxic people than I place on honesty, integrity, equality and freedom. Those who do not think you have an equal right to an opinion may become genuinely distressed, act distressed, feign disappointment, try emotional manipulation to get their way, or exhibit outright rejection or hatred at your audacity to disagree with them. Fuck 'em. (See? That's the hard ass part!)

 

 

You know I might be slowing coming to agree with you on the hard ass part... after having disagreed for some months.

 

Hmmm

[florduh]

1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

You know I might be slowing coming to agree with you on the hard ass part... after having disagreed for some months.

 

Hmmm

I know there is no one-size-fits-all solution. In general, though, we Ex-Christians often tend to defer to the religious and discard our own dignity, honesty and right to an opinion. I'd just like to see a day when people aren't so programmed that they reflexively still bow to the religion even after leaving and disavowing it.

[sdelsolray]

3 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

...

If I was living on my own right now these decisions would be so much easier, but I'm not.

...

You'll likely just have to pretend until you are on your own.  Still, you can probably slowly start moving in the direction you desire.  How much pretense you will need to use, how much freedom you will have to research the things you want to study, what new social groups you can join and what new friends and acquaintances you can make will be up for grabs I suspect.    As you go, set some reasonable boundaries with those around you who are infected with the religious virus.

[Guest]

On 2017-03-23 at 5:08 PM, florduh said:

Fundies aren't the only ones who seem to not get it. (Not directing this specifically at you.)

 

I don't know your situation, but I would add that if you are a dependent minor, the implication necessarily is that you must live under someone else's rules if you want to receive their benefits. An adult who is not dependent on anyone for their survival is another animal altogether.

I'm well over the dependent minor age, there are other complications in my life, one of which is disability, which have resulted in pooling resources. However, I don't wish to discuss this issue further, there are many aspects to individual situations and sometimes the best way out is the suggestion above, pretending until one has more space to breath, building new social networks in the meanwhile.

[florduh]

Obviously, being dependent on a relationship with someone for survival might require getting along with them, even if it's unreasonable. A necessary compromise.

[Abrooks2007]

Christianity, to a great extent, relies on its followers remaining ignorant about how the world really works.  For me, education was the key that truly unlocked my mind and gave me the strength I needed to see through the charade."

 

Shinobi, truer words were never spoken. :-P

 

As a gay man, it took me 3 years before I finally left the church I was in.  I just abruptly stopped going.  Then it was another decade (2014) that I left Christianity FOR GOOD and started posting here.  3 years later and I'm doing fin.  I accept that things happen here and there, some good and some bad.  It has nothing to do with some sort of divine destiny, it's just life.

 

Leaving the environment you're in...when it is SAFE to do so physically and mentally...is the best thing for your emotional health.  In the meantime, having support like the awesome people on here I think will be a great asset to you.

 

-Andrew

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Abrooks2007 said:

 

 

Leaving the environment you're in...when it is SAFE to do so physically and mentally...is the best thing for your emotional health.  In the meantime, having support like the awesome people on here I think will be a great asset to you.

 

-Andrew

Thanks for those words, I realize right now is not such a great time to come out with my non-belief as I need more time with adapting to it myself, this whole change happened very quickly. I'll have to trust myself that I'll know when the time is right.