Conflicted about leaving faith

[skysoar15]

Hey peeps,

I'm new to this website.

Recently, I graduated college back in August. 24 years old.

 

The idea of signing up for this is weird for me. I never thought I would consider leaving my faith, yet here I am. 

 

I've been reading a lot of testimonies about people who left religion (or specifically, Christianity). For hours I have poured my eyes on these heartbreaking and shockingly relevant stories of people who have felt just like me. It convinced me to sign up.

 

Tell you the truth, I don't know if what Im feeling will stick. My emotions sometimes make me want to come back to Christianity, so I signed up to prove to myself that I was at least on the road to being done with it.

 

Going to college changed my life. In 2011, I was a freshman at Irrelevantly Named University. Boy, was I broken. Thing was, I hid it remarkably well, and no one could tell. My life was fairly privileged as I had a single mom who adored and loved me. She still does.

 

I always loved to draw. Always. My mother always claims that before I could pick up a pencil to write, I was drawing. Even from my earliest memories as a three year old, I remember trying to draw the spinning 'Universal Pictures' logo from the 1995 movie, 'Casper.'

 

Quiet and introverted, making friends back then wasn't an option: it simply didn't happen. I clung to my mom like glue. I clung to my older half-sister (12 years older!) to nearly the same, if more hesitant, degree.

 

My emotions regularly led me astray. If I felt like something was right, I would bend the rules to do it. It's a miracle I have never smoked or drank a hint of alcohol. Still, I had major issues doing homework and caring about school. Often I grew up a kid who said a lot of things just to see how others would respond. As children, we were all selfish back then. We're still selfish to this day. Human nature I suppose.

 

I went to a private Christian school in 8th-9th grade. My mom and step dad (at the time) believed it would be safer than the public school I was zoned to. It probably was.

 

Because of my awkward social skills, I was relentlessly teased and bullied. I kept waiting for a day when it would stop, but being a small school, my maturity could never escape my poor reputation there. The girls would either belittle, ignore, or patronize me. Most of the kids had it out for me. Again, we were all selfish back then. 

 

I left to move to a nicer area where I was able to start fresh without an in-built reputation. At first the high school was glorious. Three times bigger and an opportunity for respect. By senior year though, I realized I actually had no idea how to make friends. 

 

All I knew my whole life was how to make acquaintances. I never knew real, genuine friendship there. Some may not understand it, but I was never taught even how to be a friend. Not realizing that friendship wouldnt fall into my lap, I lived a lonely high school life filled with a bunch of people who respected me, but I whom I was never close to.

 

I did all I could to fit in. I did Track, which I was decent at, I did Theatre, also good at, and of course...Art, which I excelled at.

 

And multiple times I wanted to kill myself. 

 

Funny right?

 

Seemed to me back then, that the only way to make friends was to get high or do alcohol. Neither I was interested in. Still, without realizing it, I ignored people who COULD have probably been my friend...but who I chose to ignore in my pursuit of having the 'right' people be my friend. Again, we were all selfish back then.

 

College meant the world to me. By senior year, I felt that everyone had cliques that couldnt be shaken. I was the aloof acquaintance guy to everyone. Some weekends I would be doing nothing but watching porn or drawing/writing all day. I was also mind numbingly terrified of driving which made me feel lower. Friendships on tv, the ones that looked genuine...felt like a thing of fiction to me. I believed one core thing: 'Everyone was in it for themselves and for what they could get out of something.'

 

So in college, I was in for a shock for the senses.

 

First off, I made a dedication to myself: 

1.) Get two-three real friends.

2.) Get a girlfriend.

3.) Get my artwork out there.

 

Those three were things I KNEW were my top priorities. Of course, a degree would naturally come. 

 

I learned my senior year in high school how to draw people's portraits at a super fast speed. I did it to try to impress people, unaware that my talent would only take me so far socially.

 

In college, I drew over 20 people a day all for free. My reward would be networking and friendship. I was done with being acquaintances with everyone. I hungered for real, balls deep friendships. None of that "hi, bye" crap. 

 

As I drew people, a lot of them would talk about this thing called 'Chi Alpha.'  

 

I wanted nothing to do with frats during my freshman year, but most of the people I drew, including pretty girls, were somehow apart of it.

 

Then I meet a guy named James.

 

This dude was different. He had a chillness that I related to. He was also a thinker and superhero geek. At times, he went out of his way to be my friend, which I wasnt used to.

 

He'd meet me where I was and we would walk to football games. He would buy me food in spite of my polite refusals. Lastly, he actually seemed to give a real, genuine damn about my life.

 

I thought this guy was gay.

 

No joke.

 

Upperclassman guy who wore tight-ish clothes and stared into my eyes as he listened to me speak. I wondered, "just WHAT is this guy's angle in this?"

 

Still, I understood him as genuine and he would ask me legitimate questions about life and how my mom was doing. I believed I could trust this guy. In fact, this was the type of friendship I thought would never come true.

 

He later invited me to what he called 'small group,' which he described as a hangout where 'guys can just be guys.'

 

I said to myself, "more guys like him? I'm in."

 

Accepting the invitation, James drove me to his apartment which drove me crazy. Here I was, a college freshman, being in this upperclassman's apartment. I felt like I had finally made it in life.

 

In the living room were five to six guys. I saw Bibles everywhere. I thought this was strange since religion wasn't my thing...but I respected the Bible enough to listen to what it had to say.

 

This is the first time I truly understood James to be a Christian. 

 

His first opening lines: "When I was six years old, I got addicted to dirty magazines."

 

I was shocked. Here was this Christian flat out being open with his crap unafraid. 

 

After all, "Christians don't do that sort of thing. They're perfect," I believed.

 

I listened to what he had to say, for this was the first time I had ever heard a guy refer to it as a problem. In this culture, guys would either joke about it or not talk about it, and I fell in the latter category. 

 

So I immediately understood what he meant and was game to listen to what else this guy had to say. 

 

He spoke about the fruit of the spirit being a result of walking with God and the works of the flesh a result of worshiping God's creation instead of Him. Realizing I worshiped people, I knew that I was heading the wrong way in God's eyes and needed to turn around.

 

This applied to how I viewed everything in my life, and while I still watched porn, I did it out of habit instead of glee. I would come every week to hear James talk about the surprisingly relevant Word.

 

After inviting me to go to Chi Alpha with him, I quickly realized it was a college church. 

 

Filled with some of the friendliest people I would ever meet and hundreds of students I had seen on campus at some point, it was pretty overwhelming. 

 

James had us sit in the front, which challenged every part of my demeanor and introversion. Soon, the worship started. I saw people on the ground arms out reaching out to the air to the most mellow guitar music I had ever heard. Immediately I glanced at the exit sign until I saw James silently standing with hands up and eyes closed. I figured I'd stomach this church thing if it meant honoring my first true friend.

 

My other motive was more insidious. I wanted to see that these people were faking it. Week after week I went and would see college student after college student ensnared by the worship music to lyrics I couldn't understand.

 

I said to myself: "God, if you are real...then I want to be where they are. These people don't care how stupid they look in front of everyone. I'm too ashamed to take my hands out of my pocket."

 

Over time, the culture won me over. This truly was what I was looking for my whole life. Growing up, my mom always gave me vague answers to the questions about God I had. Here, during my first adult year, I understood finally what all the fuss was about. It was beautiful.

 

This is what God would have wanted the world to be like. Everyone coming together to sing praises and pray for one another. They weren't just white students either. The services had genuine diversity.

 

For all the complications of religion, I was told time after time about having a real 'relationship' with God. That seemed appealing to me. 

 

One night, I heard (out of full context) James say that Muslims weren't going to see Heaven.

 

Maybe it was easy to accept back then due to all of the crazy acts done in the name of Islam, but it still haunted me.

 

Nonetheless, it made sense what I had seen. Jesus was real and he united everyone of color and creed. Here I was given another family. Real brotherhood. The night James celebrated my 19th birthday was something I will always remember. Back then, he consistently treated me like a big deal. 

 

People usually talk about Christians being awful people. While many are, my first genuine friendships were with Christian people who were down to talk about love, life, and real things. It wasn't just about the latest score or party to head to. No...these people cared about each other with a love stronger than most blood families seemed to give.

 

This was what I have been apart of for the last five years.

 

I wad a small group leader for three years, starting my third year in college. James had left to serve somewhere else and life gradually grew us apart. 

 

I felt like I had real purpose and real drive to show others the love that I was shown. My mom was proud that I was apart of a good organization and I regularly went on mission trips.

 

I had a good small group and was n good standing with everyone in Chi Alpha due to my drawing portraits.

 

But things would slowly turn sour.

 

Regularly I would try to share my faith to my mom who claimed to be a Christian already. She would listen to me speak up to a point and then cut me off in an unknowingly abrupt way. 

 

Witnessing became a part of who I was as a person and it wasnt my intention to turn my mother into a project. When she claimed all ways lead to the same God, I feared for her salvation as clearly this defies Christian thinking.

 

Upon realizing that her faith was indeed genuine to her, I began praying for ways to open her eyes to the true Christ. As a sponsor for AA, my mom had internalized its universalist beliefs for decades. As such, she had a strong aversion to evangelism...something she wouldnt speak in so many words about.

 

She also treated her AA Big Book like a legitimate Bible and claimed that it made reading the word digestible to alcoholics.

 

This was a fallacy due to AA's universalist approach. To respect my mom, I kept silent.

 

It seemed like everything she did now rubbed me the wrong way. Here I was apparently trying to live in a Godly way and my mom, the supposedly bigger Christian, regularly made snide comments about people and cussed.

 

She also clung uncomfortably to material comforts and having the best things. Regularly she prayed to win the lottery and when I told her "I've already won the lottery with Christ," she didnt understand it outside of her material mindset.

 

I prayed hard for both my mom and homosexual half-sister. Even for my deadbeat dad who left when I was 3.

 

I prayed enormously for God to send me a wife who could face these battles with me. Someone I could hold and help guide though her's as well. I pursued over 10 Godly girls in college and it never worked out. Multiple people including my good friend Paul got married. What was I doing wrong?

 

As graduation came closer, my mom insisted I do grad school. However I flirted with doing the unpaid Chi Alpha internship. After all, getting people to Heaven is obviously more important than anything else, right?

 

Since my mom didnt have a Biblical view of eternity, it just looked like a dumb young person's choice to throw away their future.

 

After a while, I decided I wanted a future in art instead of being a missionary. After graduating, I tried out another church instead of Assemblies of God which houses Chi Alpha. 

 

Attending a Baptist church, there was immediately a more conservative feel. Still, I helped pray regularly for their college ministry and allowed a homeless guy to live with me for 5 months (my choice, not pressured).

 

As an adult out of college, I have seen a lot of my Godly friends preach at me to wait on God for a wife and for my family to turn around. 

 

I wondered how God could allow my homeless roommate to be abused, raped, and unloved growing up. How God allowed him to have PTSD and Bipolar disorder in spite of how it damaged his ability to walk with Jesus.

 

I wondered why my mom and sister never changed one bit after fervent praying. In fact, when asking my mother about whether Jesus is the one way to God, she stated it was a bigoted, unloving way to see things. Really God? After all those prayers for my Mom's eyes to be opened, that is all you have for me? 

 

But its okay right? Jesus said he would bring a sword, not peace.

 

I wondered why so many men were being married and here I was in my most difficult of days...and no one is with me. Petty? Not when you see 10 people you know getting married on Facebook. 

 

I wondered how men could even date without scrutinized by the church. I actually gave up dating for now because I would no longer date girl who could trust God after all of the unanswered prayers, dying children, and beheaded Christians.

 

I wondered if I was just a young kid influenced by a larger purpose who needed love and direction.

 

I wondered if it was truly selfish to want own happiness before others'  and why I should give God my all when He clearly isn't.

 

I wondered why Christians would be delusional enough to take their families to the most dangerous parts of the Middle East to preach the Gospel. 

 

I wondered why most of the world's greatest inventions and contributions were from people who most likely didnt feel a need to shove the Gospel down everyone's throats.

 

I wondered why Hell seemed more desirable a place than spending eternity with a God who WOULD NOT open my mother's eyes.

 

I wondered why Christians with a martyr complex treated me far better than anyone else. Says a lot about human selfishness.

 

I wondered why I rejected gorgeous girls who liked me because they didnt "walk" with Jesus when the women at church are too 'submissive' and fickle to make any choices at all.

 

I wondered why I tried repressing my sexual nature so hard making me angry and depressed.

 

I wondered why I lost my passion for drawing and writing because they werent going to 'lead people to Christ. 

 

Lastly, I wondered why I would ever introduce someone to Jesus when it would mean them losing their sanity.

 

I currently live in the same small college town and my Christian friend Sam is teaching me how to drive. Im finally at a place to get experience to get that license.

 

Im applying for Spring next year grad school. Until then I am stuck here without a car. 

 

My Godly friends have helped me get from place to place. 

 

I cant hope to explain to my Mom any of this because I dont want her thinking that these people are bigots and that this is a cult. Ive been here for 6 years now.

 

I cant talk to anyone close to me about it. They would just point me to Scripture. 

 

Weeks ago, I came back to Chi Alpha when I couldnt take the conservative nature of the Baptist church any longer. I have told Sam how I feel, but he is convinced I am just going through a season. 

 

Im fed up with God and Christianity as a whole. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Storm]

Welcome to Ex-C, Sky!

You are not alone in your feelings. You ask many good questions at the end of your post. All of those things that you were wondering about are all legitimate things to wonder about. Christianity is tough to get out of. But once you get away from those who you are entangled with, things get easier. For me, I could still hang with them Christians at first. I would keep quiet about my leaving Christianity, but eventually I did get to the point where I had to start making choices about who I should hang with and if I wanted to keep going to church. The more I stepped away, the more clearly I saw it for what it is. You need to do the same. I don't necessarily think you have to do it all in one big leap, but you can step out of things as time goes on. Kind of like boiling a frog, keep raising the temperature slowly and they won't know whats going on. You can step out of things and leave in a subtle manner. It works. If you find yourself in situations where you need to listen to them or sit through a service, use that time to practice your critical thinking. Questions things they say. Take notes and study it later. You can become a better person if you listen to others. They will be an example of what to do or what not to do.

Christianity was good to me. I never really had any bad experiences. I only left because I couldn't reconcile all the stuff that I had been taught. I wondered a lot, like you are. I started to look at things from the outside, and I joined this site. I started to see reality. It was definitely scary at first. But it got better in time and now I am able to cope with my loss and move on in life. I have been a Ex-Christian for almost 4 years now and I am still learning and growing as a person. You have a lot of life left to live and you have the opportunity to get out before it takes too much from you. I was a believer for more than 30 years. Leaving was tough. But I did it. You can too. 

Keep on keeping on. Ask the questions, challenge what you know.

It will be worth it.

[Abrooks2007]

Hi Skysoar.

 

First off, welcome as well.

 

Secondly...I first want to address your comment regarding your half-sister.  if she's gay, she always will be.  Reversion?  Not happening.  EVER.  A person is attracted to the sex or sexes that they are attracted to.  This is psychologically proven.  And, as a gay man myself, I can attest to that.

 

As for your post:

 

Whether you choose to leave Christianity is your decision, and no one else's.  No one should pressure you to not be a Christian any more than a Christian 'should' (I put this in quotes because it is antithetical to what they believe) convert a non-Christian to become a Christian.  Do what works for you.  Now, myself, I can EASILY point out all the reasons to leave...the majority that you have mentioned.  I can point out the genocide of the Old Testament, the attempted genocides made by the Catholic Church historically, their greed, and the bigotry of the so called "non denominational" organizations, etc.  But even me...I know that faith is not easily let go.  Even after I came out as a gay man, it was over a decade before I left Christianity entirely.

 

Keep seeking questioning, and asking.  And you have a wonderful group of people here who'll help you.  And I'm here if you want to talk.

 

Andrew

[florduh]

Welcome!

 

Christianity fills an emotional and/or social need. Joining the church, particularly getting "saved," is an emotion driven thing. I doubt that anyone ever made an intellectual decision to believe all that crap; it fails completely in the light of logic, science, history and reality in general. Most, if not all of us here have lost at least a few Christian friends who can't tolerate those who don't share their delusion. You'll be fine.

[Geezer]

It is my firm opinion that people who leave the faith need to know why they are leaving. If the reason is emotionally based then maybe you need to take some time and think about what you're planning to do.

 

If you're leaving because you see the dark side of religion and you have noticed the inconsistencies & contradictions and realize some of the things you're told to believe could not possibly be true. If the Bible no longer makes sense to you then your critical thinking skills are maturing & that is going to cause you problems until you find answers for the things that are bothering you.

 

Dr. Bart Ehrman is a good bible historian to read if you want to know the truth about the Bible. He has written a lot of books and they are all good. I would encourage you to pick a couple of them out and read them. There are lots of other equally skilled scholars too and I would encourage you to seek them out as well. Folks here will be glad to give you referrals if you're interested.

 

Personally, as I've noted, I think leaving your faith needs to be an intellectual decision not an emotional one, because emotional decisions don't address the doubts you're having. I wish you the best whatever you ultimately decide to do.

[skysoar15]

Interesting reply. Honestly, my entire faith walk seemed based off of emotion, so I dont really see how leaving out of emotion would make it any bigger deal.

 

However, I see your point. I'd hate to be irrational about it years later just out of blind emotion. 

 

Thinking about evolution vs creationism is tough. I used to just accept that evolution was wrong because I believed in Jesus. I was told to research Dr. Arthur Custance, but I never ended up doing it. I figured he'd be on my side.

 

Weeks ago I realized how emotionally charged this all was for me. I stopped reading my Bible because I was tired of being blinded by my feelings. 

 

I'll look into Bart Ehman like you suggested. 

[Guest]

On 2017-03-28 at 1:03 PM, skysoar15 said:

I wondered why Hell seemed more desirable a place than spending eternity with a God who WOULD NOT open my mother's eyes.

 

I wondered why Christians with a martyr complex treated me far better than anyone else. Says a lot about human selfishness.

 

I wondered why I rejected gorgeous girls who liked me because they didnt "walk" with Jesus when the women at church are too 'submissive' and fickle to make any choices at all.

 

I wondered why I tried repressing my sexual nature so hard making me angry and depressed.

 

I wondered why I lost my passion for drawing and writing because they werent going to 'lead people to Christ. 

 

Lastly, I wondered why I would ever introduce someone to Jesus when it would mean them losing their sanity.

 

 

Good questions. I can relate to your first one. It reminds me of something that I wrote in what I've dubbed my 'deconversion journal,' that the idea of sitting in heaven and worshipping a god who would save me and damn the majority of people to an eternal hell offends me.

 

I agree with Geezer, leaving faith should be an intellectual decision and not an emotional one. The thing with emotions is that they go through change, but they don't address all these questions you have. You may feel pulled back to religion for emotional reasons, but in the long term, the doubts will still be there. I recommend reading books that address these issues, you'll find many recommendations on this site.

[LogicalFallacy]

On 3/29/2017 at 9:30 AM, skysoar15 said:

Interesting reply. Honestly, my entire faith walk seemed based off of emotion, so I dont really see how leaving out of emotion would make it any bigger deal.

 

However, I see your point. I'd hate to be irrational about it years later just out of blind emotion. 

 

Thinking about evolution vs creationism is tough. I used to just accept that evolution was wrong because I believed in Jesus. I was told to research Dr. Arthur Custance, but I never ended up doing it. I figured he'd be on my side.

 

Weeks ago I realized how emotionally charged this all was for me. I stopped reading my Bible because I was tired of being blinded by my feelings. 

 

I'll look into Bart Ehman like you suggested. 

 

Hello Sky, welcome to Ex-C

 

Geezers point was right on the money.

 

You mentioned a potential problem with leaving from emotion in your second line. If you leave out of emotion, with no critical intellectual grounding, then you are still open to being sucked in by anything emotionally. 

 

If however you understand the intellectual arguments against all religion, and why religions fail to meet their claims, this will stand you in good stead for critically evaluating other areas in you life.... so for example you don't fall for flat earth and other poppycock that can sound intuitively correct.

 

This is early days for you, and no doubt working through your emotions while developing a critical mindset will be on going. Remember we are here if you need to discuss stuff.

 

All the best

LF