I Don't Know What To Do...

[skysoar15]

I'm trying to leave the faith, but my friends are so genuine. 

 

Nearly all of my closest friends are strong believers. One of them is almost disgustingly genuine. This guy cleaned my entire room earlier this year because he wanted to serve me like Jesus. This is before I considered leaving the faith. Him and I considered each other brothers fighting for a common cause.

 

He has also allowed me to drive his car so I can learn to get my license. 

 

Out of convictions of my own, I had him become my accountability partner against pornography. Im even paying for a software named 'Covenant Eyes.' 

 

Two weekends ago, I reset my phone to take it off. My laptop still has it. That is when I freely began searching up ex-Christian testimonies and reading books. 

 

I'm super torn. I just dont know why my friends have this super extreme conviction. My friend regularly raises support to fund his unpaid college ministry internship.

 

He told me: "In a choice to have all the happiness in the world without Christ vs being lonely with him, he would choose the latter."

 

I have seen him LIVE THIS OUT willingly. He fights for guys to see the Truth by learning their hobbies and doing it with them. He is as pushy as someone needs to be pushed. 

 

He is actually a superb listener.

 

I'm in his small group and I am afraid to go back to the ministry (Chi Alpha) nights OR his small group nights.

 

I feel done with going to Chi Alpha, at least. I just feel that I cant bear to see the disappointment in this guy's eyes if I truly tell him my thoughts.

 

I have told him about my previous depression and he listened. He told me that I would have to make a choice between living for Christ or not. He said he wasnt going to let me give up.

 

What should I do? 

I'm considering telling him the truth and risking half of the ministry trying to push me back..or just lie and be completely on edge.

 

Hell, the answer may be simple...but emotionally this is a nightmare. I cant reconcile all the stuff I have read up here and read from various authors. The Christian in me wants to immediately dismiss it as a plague from the devil trying to keep me off track.

 

But the man inside of me just truly wants to say: "fuck it."

 

This sucks. It truly does.

If I go back to another service, I may physically throw up out of rage. I just feel so emotionally violated by all this. They hooked me with the promise of friendship and brotherhood given by God. Then when I see the dark side of it, I can't let Jesus down.

 

I'm afraid, y'all. Deeply afraid. I also feel alone. 

[florduh]

Sorry you're faced with this dilemma, but rest assured it's not uncommon. Many believers will turn on those who don't share their superstitious beliefs. Most who do leave the faith are terrified that they will anger or disappoint friends and family because of holding a different opinion and, oddly, they feel guilty. Expect emotional manipulation and don't forget that you are entitled to your own beliefs; if you just can't believe the Bible story you have not even made a choice.

 

Some will prefer to lie and hide who they are in order to maintain a false peace. I'm one who votes for honesty. Friends, family and you, yourself deserve nothing less.

[nutrichuckles93]

I'm in the same boat. The icky thing I've discovered (at least about my church) is that the congregation is practically trained to "kill with kindness" to win people over to Christ. Emotional manipulation and insincerity in it's purest (impurest?) form. I now no longer know whether anyone in my church besides my wife would give a fuck if I turned my back. And frankly, I don't want to know whether they actually do or don't. It's a rough place, but I'm learning not to care if they don't sincerely care either.

[Ellinas]

I understand the "kill with kindness" statement, having seen recently the simpering false friendliness of a Christian towards someone he wanted to convert.  It was sickening.

 

The bottom line - if you are in a position where there are family repercussions, especially if it will lead to financial hardship, think carefully.  If these are merely acquaintances, then you have as much right to your convictions as do they.  You'll find out soon enough if they really are your friends.

[skysoar15]

1 hour ago, Ellinas said:

I understand the "kill with kindness" statement, having seen recently the simpering false friendliness of a Christian towards someone he wanted to convert.  It was sickening.

 

The bottom line - if you are in a position where there are family repercussions, especially if it will lead to financial hardship, think carefully.  If these are merely acquaintances, then you have as much right to your convictions as do they.  You'll find out soon enough if they really are your friends.

It may have to come to a point where I distance myself from them. I have several people I am fairly close to, but through the faith. These are men I once called brothers.

 

The whole idea of the ministry group is to be of one mind which is of Jesus. I've had several close friendships with men who have had completely different hobbies and interests but we all learned to honor one another through Christ.

 

Without Christ as my foundation, I know that many of these relationships are doomed. Worst part too is that many of them will probably keep seeking ME out. 

 

The idea of letting people have their own faith apart from Christ doesnt exist with them inherently. They can try to win someone to Jesus by showing them massive kindness like they did with me, but as an ex-brother....the dynamics change.

 

I hope that it becomes just a hi-bye type of thing. These relationships were quite deep. When youre in this thing, people get attached.

 

 

[florduh]

And they say it's hard to walk away from Scientology. To me, all cults are the same.

[LifeCycle]

Religion is Tribalism. We all figured that out when we left. It sucked but I'm a lot happier now without it and them. Face it, God is not real... They're pretending. Your surrounding yourself with fakers.

 

But... Do what you need to do to survive... Many don't have the luxury of letting everyone know your real thoughts. Pros and cons... There's always pros and cons... Dammit.

[sdelsolray]

I suggest you consider not being codependent with your friend.

[skysoar15]

I spoke to him yesterday about my feelings. He responded in a way I wasnt expecting. He said: "I'm glad you aren't just in-between."

 

What he meant was that so many people calling themselves Christians just do it out of habit. He said he preferred someone be all in or all out.

 

He said he was still willing to keep teaching me to drive and said he doesnt believe a friendship should be based just on somebody's faith. 

 

From his words: "I'd still want to be your friend, but not if you turn into a jerk."

 

He told me: "You don't have to come to small group or Chi Alpha, but I hope you still come hang out."

 

He did pray for me to see 'God's love,' but it wasnt in a pushy way. I was honestly shocked.

 

What are your thoughts on how he handled it?

[sdelsolray]

That's good.  Often, theists reject those who leave the particular religious faith.  They are taught to do that.  I observe that theists tend to project their own feelings and personalities upon their worshipped deities.  If your friend is doing that, he is likely a good human being.

[florduh]

Sounds like he's one of the reasonable ones. I hope others don't turn him against you.

[Ellinas]

That's about as good as it gets.  For now, anyway

[MOHO]

On 4/3/2017 at 2:38 PM, Ellinas said:

I understand the "kill with kindness" statement, having seen recently the simpering false friendliness of a Christian towards someone he wanted to convert.  It was sickening.

 

The bottom line - if you are in a position where there are family repercussions, especially if it will lead to financial hardship, think carefully.  If these are merely acquaintances, then you have as much right to your convictions as do they.  You'll find out soon enough if they really are your friends.

 

This is what is keeping me from restating my atheism to the fams and inner circle. Mrs. MOHO and I live in a very nice executive home and have a successful business that I help with when I'm not cut'n code. We're approaching retirement years and to negatively impact that kind of financial security is not exactly an attractive option.

 

Declaring my lack of belief will not directly result in divorce but, after having made such declaration a couple years ago then experiencing very heavy tension in the household, led me to start going to church on Sundays with the Mrs again - just to relieve the tension. I know I'm being a major wuss here and I dream, each and every day, about leaving behind a life of lies.

 

Sky, you are young and, likely, don't have the kind of complications in your life that you will when you are older. If you are financially dependent on your folks then you might have to just grin and bear the discomfort for a bit. But when that day comes when you are on your own...run like the wind! And for dog's sake DON'T MARRY A CHRISTIAN. Or some other adherent to superstition.

[skysoar15]

Thankfully my mom believes in choosing your own spiritual lifestyle. She is only resistant to dogmatic approaches.

Her strong resistance toward 'authentic' Christianity is a large part of my decision to reevaluate my beliefs.

 

I say 'authentic,' because obviously the Bible states we must reject other beliefs and serve 'the true God.'

For some reason my mom doesn't believe this, which is odd since she calls herself a Christian.

My failed prayers for her to 'see' that Jesus was the one way is the biggest thing that got me to wake up and understand reality.

 

So yeah, my only issue is that my close friends believe in this stuff. 

The same guy I told y'all about invited me to attend the college church with him tonight.

I'm torn about going. 

He stated: "If you could make one last service, I think it should be this."

 

The speaker is an ultra-charismatic college missionary who routinely performs 'healings' on students every year he comes. 

I went nuts for this guy every year prior to this one.

 

Healings freak me out, because I'm not sure how they happen.

I used to believe God worked through the healer, but quite honestly it might just be a placebo effect.

Still, there is a real part of me that is afraid it could be from the real deal. 

 

I'm leaning heavily on not going. I don't need my emotions stirred up for something that just can't be real.

[★ Citsonga ★]

On 4/4/2017 at 11:37 AM, skysoar15 said:

I spoke to him yesterday about my feelings. He responded in a way I wasnt expecting. He said: "I'm glad you aren't just in-between."

 

What he meant was that so many people calling themselves Christians just do it out of habit. He said he preferred someone be all in or all out.

 

He said he was still willing to keep teaching me to drive and said he doesnt believe a friendship should be based just on somebody's faith. 

 

From his words: "I'd still want to be your friend, but not if you turn into a jerk."

 

He told me: "You don't have to come to small group or Chi Alpha, but I hope you still come hang out."

 

He did pray for me to see 'God's love,' but it wasnt in a pushy way. I was honestly shocked.

 

What are your thoughts on how he handled it?

 

That's better than it seems that most ex-christians get from Christians. He's probably a pretty decent person.

 

The one thing that does bug me about that is the "if you turn into a jerk" comment. Sure, becoming a jerk would be expected to push people away, but that should go without saying. The fact that he did mention it makes it seem like he's probably holding onto the typical Christian misconception that those who leave have a certain degree of likelihood they'll become jerks. Hopefully that's not what he meant, but it is how it comes across to me.

 

Anyway, I hope things work out long-term with this friend. Good luck!

 

[skysoar15]

Yeah I'm beginning to wonder about that myself. 

I've been feeling pretty melancholy about the whole situation.

Over time, I know that our friendship will eventually dissipate. I just know it will.

 

As I continue to try to make sense of all of this, the angrier I get toward Christianity.

I'm working hard not to redirect my anger at him or anyone else who believes in it.

 

I think that my whole life, I've felt like I've been in last place.

I felt that way growing up compared to the 'jocks.'

I felt that way compared to all of the 'Christians' who were fiercely dedicated to Jesus and landing beautiful wives.

Ironically, I feel that way to the rest of the world now. I feel like I've wasted these years serving an empty God while I could have been building up a career.

 

It makes me angry when I see him so peaceful about living this Christian life when it's clear to me that it's for nothing. 

Might be a mixture of jealousy and rage. 

 

I want his peace. 

But I can't have it that way. 

 

I just can't bring myself at all to serve someone I believe just doesn't exist. 

Ultimately, I think that is why our friendship is doomed to fail.

[Voice]

Skysoar, I've only read your original post so far, not any replies, and I'm sure you received some practical and insightful advice already.

 

One thing stands out to me: Your friends are genuine now, but should you decide to follow your own convictions and leave the faith, a larger percentage of them will turn against you. Genuinely. They will abandon you and condemn you. I'm sorry.

For me it was around 90 - 95% of my genuine christian friends and associates. No. It was more than that. I had around a hundred friends/associates and maybe one or two of those remained accepting. I lost all my friends in one week. The Internet didn't exist back then either so it was difficult.

 

As they say in Monty Python's The Flying Circus, 'start again!'

 

 

[knightcore]

I think you coming on this forum is a good way to combat a lot of the loneliness. As much as I hate my dad, I always remember something he said about surrounding yourself with voices. Of course, he wanted me to surround myself with Christian voices, but if you're trying to move away from the church the best thing to do is make sure most of the voices of the people around you aren't Christian. Finding new friends is hard, but it's so much better to be able to be yourself. It's such a gift to find a community where you aren't shunned. I really hope you're able to find some people around you who aren't Christian and can help ease you out of it, you shouldn't have to live a life where people condemn who you are to your face on the regular.