Discussion/Argument Tonight. Sigh.

[L.B.]

She says she won't leave me, but she won't give up on "god" and her "faith in Jesus" because the Bible is true and he's (who?) the "one true god".

 

Then when I ask her how she can keep going to church when they teach that I am a sinner on my way to hell, she says "but that's not the truth" or "but I'm not a theologian".

 

She "knows" the "one true god" but won't admit that the bible is not only full of contradictions and myths, but is (at times) perfectly clear about unbelievers and those who fall away.

 

She really thinks she can live through/past the cognitive dissonance that would necessarily occur if she used logic. Apparently, she thinks there's a way for the bible to be the "true word" of the "one true god" and still not have to mean exactly what it says.

 

I told her I didn't absolutely reject the idea of the spiritual, but that I wanted nothing to do with organized religions and no longer consider myself a Christian. She is still having trouble processing that.

 

She also doesn't want to take our children out of church because it's a source of stability and their friends are there; I asked her what kind of stability religion could possibly provide, seeing as it's tearing at the core of our marriage and family life - but she just can't imagine our children being without these "good people" who are doing "god's work".

 

Sigh. Not sure I could feel worse about this, or hate religion more than I do now.

[nutrichuckles93]

I agree. It's pretty (un)amazing how Christians can say they don't believe one part of the Bible but totally believer another part. Even though the book itself says to believe all of it.

 

I'm sorry you are going through this, man. My wife and I have yet to really have any arguments on the subject aside from one a few months ago.

 

I hope both our wives can soon realize the inanity of their religion.

[ToHellWithMe]

5 hours ago, L.B. said:

I asked her what kind of stability religion could possibly provide, seeing as it's tearing at the core of our marriage and family life

 

This does not seem entirely fair. Let's say you were forsaking lawfulness for a criminal life, and you made that argument against law.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 hours ago, ToHellWithMe said:

 

This does not seem entirely fair. Let's say you were forsaking lawfulness for a criminal life, and you made that argument against law.

This is a reasonably good analogy.  However, the law does not intentionally contradict itself.   Granted, there are loopholes which create grey areas; but its purpose is not to obfuscate or inveigle.

 

Scripture, on the other hand, is contradictory, and obscure.  Paul says the believer should remain married until/unless the unbeliever decides to terminate the marriage.  Jesus says divorce is justified in the case of infidelity.  Old testament god considered forsaking the one true god to be infidelity.  Because any or all of these infallible, inerrant, god-breathed scriptures can be applied, the wife could easily make the case that L.B. has committed spiritual infidelity, and by extension, his choices as the unbeliever have effected the termination of the marriage.  Because Mrs. L.B.'s "logic" can satisfy the contradiction between Jesus and Paul, she will be considered blameless.

 

In reality, though, anyone who has to work that hard to justify their actions is obviously anything but blameless.  So, I'd say, yes.  Religion is acting as a destructive force here.

[★ Citsonga ★]

48 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Jesus says divorce is justified in the case of infidelity.

 

That's actually not what the Bible has him saying, although it is a common misconception. Here is the actual quote:

 

Matthew 5:32

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

 

What it actually says is that if a man puts his wife away because of fornication, then he's not the cause of her committing adultery (of course, she would have already committed adultery). A lot of people interpret this as justifying divorce in that case, but that is reading something into it that is not expressly stated.

 

 

[★ Citsonga ★]

8 hours ago, L.B. said:

She says she won't leave me, but she won't give up on "god" and her "faith in Jesus" because the Bible is true and he's (who?) the "one true god".

 

Then when I ask her how she can keep going to church when they teach that I am a sinner on my way to hell, she says "but that's not the truth" or "but I'm not a theologian".

 

She "knows" the "one true god" but won't admit that the bible is not only full of contradictions and myths, but is (at times) perfectly clear about unbelievers and those who fall away.

 

She really thinks she can live through/past the cognitive dissonance that would necessarily occur if she used logic. Apparently, she thinks there's a way for the bible to be the "true word" of the "one true god" and still not have to mean exactly what it says.

 

I told her I didn't absolutely reject the idea of the spiritual, but that I wanted nothing to do with organized religions and no longer consider myself a Christian. She is still having trouble processing that.

 

She also doesn't want to take our children out of church because it's a source of stability and their friends are there; I asked her what kind of stability religion could possibly provide, seeing as it's tearing at the core of our marriage and family life - but she just can't imagine our children being without these "good people" who are doing "god's work".

 

Sigh. Not sure I could feel worse about this, or hate religion more than I do now.

 

That sounds a lot like my wife, so hang in there, because it may get better (it did for us).

 

My wife still believes in Christianity, but she says that I'm a good man and doesn't seem to think that I'm headed for the lake of fire. We don't talk much about religion now; we enjoy the things we have in common and we respect each other's differences. She goes to church regularly and I go to freethinker meetups regularly, and we don't discourage each other from participating in our own communities. We occasionally get together with some people from her (my former) church and we occasionally get together with some people from my meetups (I think her meeting a few of my fellow freethinkers helped her realize that I wasn't being sucked into some terrible thing).

 

Hopefully your future together will work out just fine. Good luck!

 

[Ellinas]

Sounds to me like your wife is desperately trying to cling to something, anything, to avoid seeing her social circle being torn apart.  She is seeking stability, and if that is best found in willful blindness towards illogicality, so be it from her standpoint.

 

Patience is pretty well the only tactic open to you on this one, I suspect.

[sdelsolray]

Secular marital counseling.

[nutrichuckles93]

^^That probably wouldn't be so easy. It'd probably be very hard to get someone so heavily indoctrinated to listen to advice with someone who isn't speaking from the word. Not that I have experience with that (yet anyway), but what I've gathered from the general behavior of believing spouses of members of this forum.

[Lilith666]

Sometimes I feel incredibly frustrated with Christians. They would rather cling to the absolute truth of their warm feelings at the price of people being tortured, than make the hard and scary, but necessary, choice of walking on their own two feet and rejecting such contempt for others.