Coerced Into Watching 'The Case For Christ' by a Christian Friend.

[skysoar15]

This entire post is copy & pasted from another thread update.

It was strong enough to warrant a thread on its own. 

 

A friend from out of town and I hung out tonight, ate dinner, and caught a movie.

I prepared myself for any possible manipulations for him to try to win me back to 'Christ.'

 

The car ride was fine at first. We were just talking as normal adults getting adjusted to adulthood. 

He told me about his marriage and job situation while I told him about my struggle to craft a successful grad portfolio.

 

As we were about to get tickets to watch Fast and Furious 8 (because why not), he lovingly begs and pleads for us to see 'The Case For Christ' instead.

This being a cheap college town theater, tickets were not expensive...but I froze.

Here I was...celebrating having my old friend back in town to spend time with him before his birthday.

 

Like a child, he pleaded for us to see 'Case For Christ.'

I froze for about four minutes...with the newly bought Fast 8 tickets right in my hand.

He even asked the ticket booth people what they suggested we see. Most of them suggested 'Case For Christ.'

 

Now I'm not saying Fast 8 was going to be a masterpiece, but it was just going to be a good time. 

 

For the good of my friend, I reluctantly traded those tickets for 'Case For Christ' instead.

He bought me dinner as a way of showing gratitude, and in a lovingly 'Christ' like way, he knew that I hated him for it.

However, he basically stated that uncomfortability was a good thing to push us toward the truth.

 

I was pissed for most of the meal, trying to keep my conversation to a minimum. 

I felt manipulated.

 

We sit down and watch the movie.

To my surprise, it is actually a well-crafted (especially for a faith-based film) movie.

It was a period piece about how author Lee Strobel searched obsessively for answers disproving the resurrection of Christ.

His wife had just become a Christian and he was working hard to save his marriage, feeling increasingly alienated from her new way of life.

I related to Strobel through the entire journey as he wrestled with anger toward losing his marriage, his drunken fight with his wife over the fact that she 'loved' Jesus more than him, and the general attitude he held throughout the whole film.

 

Every person that he questions leads him between a rock and a hard place.

He spends the entire film trying to disprove it.

Eventually, he learns to accept that the resurrection did occur and that he can't find anything to disprove it.

 

The film was moving. 

But I was angry. 

I spoke little as my friend dropped me back as my place and headed back to his hometown.

My first thought was to post on here.

 

I know I should have stood my ground...

but I chose to see what he wanted to see.

 

I'm still not sure about anything anymore.

The movie wasn't perfect, but watching this guy slowly turn from a hardcase atheist to a new believer was surprisingly convincing.

This wasn't one of those preachy "God's Not Dead" type films where very atheist is an evil person out to ruin a Christian's life.

Here, we see this man (an atheist) as a loving husband and father who sees his entire world fall apart as his wife becomes a Christian and 

someone who researches desperately to debunk her beliefs to save their marriage.

 

After the movie, I knew that I couldn't latch onto feelings.

But I am even more confused than ever.

I am perfectly willing to cut ties with my friend now. Perfectly willing.

I once found the idea of it hard...but now I see that my sanity is at stake. 

 

Holy shit.

[buffettphan]

Check out "The Case Against The Case For Christ" 

 

Quote

Leading New Testament scholar Robert M. Price has taken umbrage at the cavalier manner in which Rev. Lee Strobel has misrepresented the field of Bible scholarship in his book The Case for Christ. Price exposes and refutes Strobel's arguments chapter-by-chapter. In doing so he has occasion to wipe out the entire field of Christian apologetics as summarized by Strobel. This book is a must-read for anyone bewildered by the various books published by Rev. Strobel

 

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Christ-Testament-Reverend/dp/1578840058

 

I think there are youtube videos also.

 

STAY AWAY FROM CHRISTBOTS!  So what if you have to be lonely for a while.  Be true to yourself.  Stop torturing yourself with these so-called friends.   You'll find new friends -- true friends -- not these robots for jesus whose primary (if not only) goal is to bring you back into the fold.

[sdelsolray]

Do you know how to set boundaries?  Whether yes or no, this is a perfect opportunity for you to do just that.

[Lilith666]

Is this the same one you posted about earlier? Why are you letting this person use your caring for him as a convert-harvesting opportunity?

[skysoar15]

1 hour ago, Lilith666 said:

Is this the same one you posted about earlier? Why are you letting this person use your caring for him as a convert-harvesting opportunity?

I know a good deal of Christian people.

I also don't use names a lot of the time when I write about them.

 

I've cut ties with the guy who invited me to church. 

This is another friend who I knew back when I was a small group leader. He was in my group and we were good friends.

Since his birthday is on Monday, I decided to see if he wanted to spend time with me and get away from his hectic marriage for a night. 

 

I didn't realize I had to suddenly walk on eggshells around most of the people I've loved.

So while you're right in not letting people essentially walk all over me, I don't think you understand how deep these friendships went.

I am figuring this out one hard lesson at a time.

 

None of this is easy.

[Daffodil]

The fact that Strobel had to fight for his marriage just because his wife chose to believe something new speaks volumes.  If Christians care so much about the nuclear family, they should fight hard to keep EVERY marriage intact regardless of the beliefs of either side.  He shouldn't have had to fight for anything.

 

I feel for you and your situation.  While we haven't been back to church for many months, most of my church friends still think they just somehow "miss" me because we go to a different service or something.  One knows, I think, but never says anything.  We don't actually get together because she is very busy, but our kids are best friends so we cross paths as they get together.  Anyway, I don't know how it will be once the others find out.  Interestingly, my best friend moved away seven years ago but is moving back in May.  She has no idea and I don't know how that will go when I tell her.  Her family aren't super crazy fundies, but they are strong believers.  Should be interesting!  

 

I agree with the others where your friend is concerned.  It was completely ridiculous to ambush you like that and basically ruin your reunion.  Shows how little he really cares for you as a person.  Cut him off!

[rerics]

Just another reason why I despise the evangelical mentality. Imagine if you coerced your friend into seeing "Religulous" for example--would they appreciate that?

[Astreja]

Cut the ties.  Mercilessly.

[★ Citsonga ★]

I can't speak for the movie, since I haven't seen it, but the book was atrocious. I was still a Christian when it came out and I was convinced that there was sufficient evidence to support Christianity, but even then I could see how shallow the Case for Christ book was. For someone who was supposedly a hard-line skeptic, the book showed Lee easily swallowing what Christians said, usually without bothering to check with nonbelieving scholars. His story simply didn't ring true.

[pratt]

not really tit for tat person, how about inviting him back to see a porn movie on your birthday???

 

think it will be a reasonable request....

 

remember to show him your puppy eyes

[Lilith666]

15 hours ago, skysoar15 said:

I know a good deal of Christian people.

I also don't use names a lot of the time when I write about them.

 

I've cut ties with the guy who invited me to church. 

This is another friend who I knew back when I was a small group leader. He was in my group and we were good friends.

Since his birthday is on Monday, I decided to see if he wanted to spend time with me and get away from his hectic marriage for a night. 

 

I didn't realize I had to suddenly walk on eggshells around most of the people I've loved.

So while you're right in not letting people essentially walk all over me, I don't think you understand how deep these friendships went.

I am figuring this out one hard lesson at a time.

 

None of this is easy.

You're not the only one going through this kind of thing, skysoar. Even though we're not in your situation right now, we can still tell you that the way he treated you wasn't right. OK, fine, you're close with this person. Give him another chance if you think it's appropriate and depending on whether this is a pattern with him. But make it clear to him that you have no interest in Christianity, and Jesus will not be a part of your friendship with him. I'm not sure how much time I would want to spend with someone who behaved so immaturely, but it's your call.

[★ Citsonga ★]

15 hours ago, skysoar15 said:

Since his birthday is on Monday, I decided to see if he wanted to spend time with me and get away from his hectic marriage for a night.

 

I'd recommend that you consider the movie his Birthday gift and let it go for this time, but set some boundaries and don't let him manipulate you again. If you go to another movie together, make sure he understands that the movie selection must be one that you're both interested in.

 

 

[Lilith666]

2 hours ago, Citsonga said:

 

I'd recommend that you consider the movie his Birthday gift and let it go for this time, but set some boundaries and don't let him manipulate you again. If you go to another movie together, make sure he understands that the movie selection must be one that you're both interested in.

 

 

Fair deal. And, that kind of begging and whining at the last minute is something I would expect from a nine-year-old, not an adult with children. Makes me shudder to think how he's raising them to treat other people, come to think of it.

[skysoar15]

Birthday or not is irrelevant. He would have pulled this crap even without his birthday being involved. I just had sympathy since it was.

 

This friendship can't go on anymore. 

 

I'll find a way to tell him. Gently at first, mercilessly if he pushes hard. I also won't go out of my way to tell him unless he calls first.

 

This is just the way it has to be. 

[Ellinas]

Gently won't work.

 

If your are going to cut this particular tie (which strikes me as being a good idea) just do it.  Tell him politely, firmly, and admit of no discussion.  Start swearing if you can't get rid of him.

 

It won't be pleasant.  It will be easier than you fear.  It will work.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Probably so, skysoar15. I was just hoping it'd help lessen the stress a wee bit to think of it as a birthday gift.

 

Good luck as you terminate the friendship. If there's not much chance of him starting to behave better, then that's what I'd do, too.

 

[sdelsolray]

8 hours ago, skysoar15 said:

Birthday or not is irrelevant. He would have pulled this crap even without his birthday being involved. I just had sympathy since it was.

 

This friendship can't go on anymore. 

 

I'll find a way to tell him. Gently at first, mercilessly if he pushes hard. I also won't go out of my way to tell him unless he calls first.

 

This is just the way it has to be. 

Are you entirely sure that this friend will not adjust to your disclosure to him of your Ex-Christianity?  If he doesn't, then you can choose to limit or eliminate contact with him.  If, on the other hand, he said something like, "You know, I've been thinking the same thing but I've been hiding from others because I am afraid of how they will react and treat me", then you may have things to talk about.

[skysoar15]

5 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

Are you entirely sure that this friend will not adjust to your disclosure to him of your Ex-Christianity?  If he doesn't, then you can choose to limit or eliminate contact with him.  If, on the other hand, he said something like, "You know, I've been thinking the same thing but I've been hiding from others because I am afraid of how they will react and treat me", then you may have things to talk about.

I'm definitely sure.

He is in complete disbelief that I've given it up.

As long as he's in my life, he will try in some way to win me back to Christ.

 

A friendship with him right now is impossible.

[skysoar15]

Update:

Told my friend my feelings about the matter. 

He essentially stated that 'Christ is a big part of my life and I'm not going to tone it down just because it makes you feel a certain way."

More or less what I predicted.

 

We parted ways. The talk wasn't vicious, but it was honest. 

His last words were: "If you ever want to talk again, I'll be here."

 

Glad it wasn't as hard as I thought it'd be.

[nutrichuckles93]

Well, at least you were both honest then. No misunderstood feelings there.

[sdelsolray]

On 4/23/2017 at 10:27 PM, skysoar15 said:

I'm definitely sure.

He is in complete disbelief that I've given it up.

As long as he's in my life, he will try in some way to win me back to Christ.

 

A friendship with him right now is impossible.

Still, things may change in the future.  I suggest you take a benevolent intellectual, emotional and psychological high ground and see what happens.  Set clear boundaries regarding the religious stuff, don't burn secular bridges, do nothing further, and wait.  Perhaps your friend will approach you later with questions or thoughts that you choose to deal with.  Perhaps not.

 

[LogicalFallacy]

On ‎23‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 3:33 PM, Citsonga said:

I can't speak for the movie, since I haven't seen it, but the book was atrocious. I was still a Christian when it came out and I was convinced that there was sufficient evidence to support Christianity, but even then I could see how shallow the Case for Christ book was. For someone who was supposedly a hard-line skeptic, the book showed Lee easily swallowing what Christians said, usually without bothering to check with nonbelieving scholars. His story simply didn't ring true.

 

Exactly this! I have the book, I have read half of it. At each stage I am left wondering why a critical sceptical investigative person did not ask harder questions.

 

I'll bet my bottom dollar is that he went though some psychological change when his wife converted that made him convert as well. This was not just a atheist was converted, - his wife had previously converted.

 

If that guy is an investigative journalist then I'm Stephen Hawking!

[Jedah]

I saw the case for Christ and was unimpressed. The entire thing is mostly an emotional argument disguised as a logical one, which largely uses the bible to prove the bible and then closes the deal by showing how it's beneficial to believe. Problem is, just because something "would be nice" doesn't mean it's true. So nothing but yawns from me.

 

 

[skysoar15]

2 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Exactly this! I have the book, I have read half of it. At each stage I am left wondering why a critical sceptical investigative person did not ask harder questions.

 

I'll bet my bottom dollar is that he went though some psychological change when his wife converted that made him convert as well. This was not just a atheist was converted, - his wife had previously converted.

 

If that guy is an investigative journalist then I'm Stephen Hawking!

Interestingly enough, they regularly show Strobel abusing alcohol during his quest to debunk Christianity.

 

Alcohol + overwhelming desire to save marriage + insecurities with father figure = Pretty strong confirmation bias. 

 

Not that I'm trying to act like the movie is 100 percent historically accurate, but it probably didn't make up any of the above either.

[R. S. Martin]

Case for Christ answers no hard questions. It was recommended to me when I was asking hard questions of a friend who was also a baptist minister's wife. I couldn't understand it; these people supposedly had lots of education about the Bible and all (this was before I had my seminary degree) but they could not answer simple questions about why the Christian principles work as they do or how we know God exists--questions that had been burning in my brain since childhood. Jesus had said we should become as children; I was sticking to the unanswered questions of my childhood and no one would answer them. Then I got this recommendation. And found it disgustingly irrelevant. It said nothing that the Bible and the sermons didn't say. Skysoar, your description of the movie sounds like the movie capitalized and sensationalized Strobel's conflict over his wife's conversion. I've watched him speak on video and I remember no mention of a conflict regarding the marriage. If I remember correctly, he did have some questions regarding the validity of Christianity's claims but he seems to have found answers (that satisfied him) rather quickly and easily. He is (or was) a lawyer, hence the title "Case for Christ." He approached the Christian religion as a legal case to see if it made sense. I forget what question he was seeking to answer but he obviously answered it positively, Christianity made sense to him.