Coerced Into Watching 'The Case For Christ' by a Christian Friend.

[sdelsolray]

Dr. Robert Price has written a rather good book refuting Lee Strobel's claims and arguments:

 

The Case Against the Case For Christ: A New Testament Scholar Refutes the Reverend Lee Strobel

[Burny]

One more thing. The Case For Christ contains a huge lie. Strobel did NOT convert while researching the book. He converted already years earlier. This book is nothing other than boring and predictable Christian propaganda. That's it. Strobel is selling ice to the Inuit. He's making millions of dollars off of the time honoured tradition of preaching to the choir. The easiest thing in the world is telling people that they're right. And charge them money for it. 

 

Would you read a Mormon or Wiccan or Muslim propaganda book and instantly be confused or convinced of that religions truth? I doubt it. 

[Akheia]

FWIW, I think you did the right thing. That last conversation you recounted makes the guy sound very manipulative. He's still got his Jesus Blinders on, and he's acting super-Jesus-y, like a character in a movie--because he very likely sees himself that way. But to others, he comes off as, well, manipulative, creepily childish, and boundary-violating. You weren't asking him to put Jesus aside. You were just asking for the consideration anybody would ask for: to enjoy stuff you both like together. At least he's told you exactly where he stands. He's going to be rude, self-centered, and whiny every single time you two are together unless you do the stuff that only he likes and enjoys.

 

How considerate of him! You can cut ties without a shred of guilt over the matter. 

 

I lost every Christian friend I had after I deconverted. Every single one. That's not uncommon, either. I know it hurts, and hope you'll find other good friends soon--people who'll give-and-take and enjoy the same stuff you do, and who'll gladly treat you with respect, courtesy, and compassion. You deserve people like that in your life.

 

I just hope he was honest about not bothering you again. Let him instead go whine to his small group, his eyebrows squinched sky-high and amid maybe even some tears, that he'd faced real live persecution and demons had taken yet another friend from him for jus' bein' Christian, but he's planted a seed of faith in that poor heathen, and let him exult in their admiration. He's chosen his tribe. May he enjoy it.

 

Oh, and the book at least that the movie's based on is pure bullshit. Steve Shives ripped it to ribbons on YouTube. This guy's an investigative journalist like I'm Betty Fuckin' Crocker.

[skysoar15]

18 hours ago, Burny said:

One more thing. The Case For Christ contains a huge lie. Strobel did NOT convert while researching the book. He converted already years earlier. This book is nothing other than boring and predictable Christian propaganda. That's it. Strobel is selling ice to the Inuit. He's making millions of dollars off of the time honoured tradition of preaching to the choir. The easiest thing in the world is telling people that they're right. And charge them money for it. 

 

Would you read a Mormon or Wiccan or Muslim propaganda book and instantly be confused or convinced of that religions truth? I doubt it. 

What source do you have that Strobel lied about it?

I'm interested in looking at it. (That's indeed a huge lie).

[Lilith666]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 8:18 PM, skysoar15 said:

Update:

Told my friend my feelings about the matter. 

He essentially stated that 'Christ is a big part of my life and I'm not going to tone it down just because it makes you feel a certain way."

More or less what I predicted.

Not even around you? You're not asking him to stop being Christian, just not to make it a part of your relationship. That's pretty self-centered for him to refuse.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Hmmm I don't know this Lee guy. I HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE OR READ THE BOOK. However I see multiple things going on here. First he is in a highly emotional state because his life is falling apart. Let's look at that aspect

 

1. why is this man's life falling apart?

 

Answer: Christianity. His wife has converted and is being indoctrinated and brainwashed. She is being told that her husband is a bad influence. Probably urged to part ways so their children aren't influenced by him etc. Etc. Everything he loves and holds dear is being taken away by the bibles asshole God. And according to the one interpreting the bible their is not telling what is being said to her.

 

2. He wants to save his marriage and is trying to convince her that Christ isn't the saviour. Convincing a hardcore believer in the heightened stages of early conversion is almost impossible. That stage lasted for years with me. So any arguement he gives his wife will be batted off and dismissed I'm sure, because she "feels" christs presence within her.

 

3. You can't disprove Christ by only using scripture. The bible has been rewritten multiple times to prove Christ. I think a better tactic would be to disprove the bible as a whole. And point out that while no one can really "prove" there wasn't a resurrection. No one can "prove that there was one outside of biblical scripture. Then the arguement of faith comes in. It is achingly easy to show how the events of the old testament never happened. And it stands to reason since the whole "case for christ" even being the messiah is based on prophecies in the old testament, then if the bulk of the old testament is false then that also means that Christ is a false messiah even if he did exist. You can't validate the new testament if the old testament is false. I honestly can't say with true conviction that Christ did not exist. But I can say that in my opinion, if he did exist, that he is no different than any modern day cult leaders. Most all religions in modern history can be traced to one man or woman. If he didn't exist then the writer presumed to be Paul made the story up. Christ could very well be nothing but the invention of the man we know as Paul. 

 

4. Ultimately this man in the movie and book was faced with either losing his family and life as he knew it or converting to Christianity. I have a friend and we are both members of a fraternity and he even admits that if his wife wasn't supportive of him being in said fraternity that he wouldn't be. A person in a situation like he was in could probably be forced to believe almost anything just so he didn't lose his wife and kids. In my opinion it is no different than making an innocent man plea guilty so that he doesn't risk spending his life in prison. Lee apparently took the plea bargain that his wife and the religion she chose offered him. 

 

     If anything this is a testament of the raw power that the influence of religion can weld in a person's life. This really is no different than the type of power that caused the crusades, witch trials, and even terrorist attacks from extreme Islam today. While I recognise that religion has its benefits such as a social outlet, keeping habitual offenders in line after conversion, through fear of Hell, and even the peace of mind of knowing that on your death bed that it's not the end. All of these things can be achieved through other means, which do not include living an ancient and out dated lie. Odds are if this Lee fellow is truly a critical thinker that he doesn't truly believe the bible, but in the end he made a buck off of it. Hell I've even considered playing the role of preacher again, to make a buck er two if possible, but that would just be wrong on so many levels. That's just my vindictive nature wanting to get back at a false God that controlled my life for years and I know that. Anyway.... that's my two cents. Leave your fundie friends behind and continue your life in the light of truth my friend. 

 

Best Regards,

                Dark Bishop 

[skysoar15]

16 hours ago, Lilith666 said:

Not even around you? You're not asking him to stop being Christian, just not to make it a part of your relationship. That's pretty self-centered for him to refuse.

My words from the conversation:

Me: "I know not expecting you to talk Christ would be like expecting water not to be wet." (knowing him well enough to say that).

He said, "Pretty much."

I told him, "I'm not sure how much longer this friendship can last with us seeing things so differently. This friendship was started on Jesus."

He said: "I want you the way you are now, bro."

I told him, "I know you. You say you want me now, but what you really want is for me to come back to the guy I was. I can't do that."

He finally said, "Well, Jesus is a big part of my life, and if that offends you then I'm sorry but I won't tone down anything just to make you feel more comfortable."

I told him, "Well, I guess that's just the way it is."

 

(The conversation basically ended there.)

 

To be fair, he is one of the more self-centered Christians.

Many of my other Christian friends would and have tried to just spend time with me without forcing it down my throats.

My only issue with them is that I know eventually they would try to win me back or get frustrated trying.

 

I know some of you would say, "Just keep them in your life and see what happens."

With some friends I may be able to do that, but there's no way I will keep a good chunk of friends who believe that I am living a lie.

I'm getting to a point where I just don't care about how I come off to them. Be polite, sure, but beyond that...I'm losing the ability to care.

 

These friendships are inevitably doomed, so why not just let the truth come out and let it end faster on my terms?

I'd rather that happen than watch the friendships die slowly while seeing the disappointment in their faces over my life choices.

[nutrichuckles93]

Make the choice however you think is necessary. And be thankful that you're unmarried, so you have the luxury of the choices to end these friendships only affecting yourself. Not all of us have that ability.

[Akheia]

4 hours ago, skysoar15 said:

I know some of you would say, "Just keep them in your life and see what happens."

 

I wouldn't say that. Ever. If someone makes you feel bad and won't change the behaviors after you've made clear that those behaviors hurt you, cut 'em loose. You don't need to justify the decision to him either. You deserve good people around you who spur you to your best--not people who will trample you constantly. Don't take shit like that from anybody. He's not interested in your best interests. If you're not either, then you're going to see yourself dragged under by him.

[Lilith666]

6 hours ago, skysoar15 said:

My words from the conversation:

Me: "I know not expecting you to talk Christ would be like expecting water not to be wet." (knowing him well enough to say that).

He said, "Pretty much."

I told him, "I'm not sure how much longer this friendship can last with us seeing things so differently. This friendship was started on Jesus."

He said: "I want you the way you are now, bro."

I told him, "I know you. You say you want me now, but what you really want is for me to come back to the guy I was. I can't do that."

He finally said, "Well, Jesus is a big part of my life, and if that offends you then I'm sorry but I won't tone down anything just to make you feel more comfortable."

I told him, "Well, I guess that's just the way it is."

 

(The conversation basically ended there.)

 

To be fair, he is one of the more self-centered Christians.

Given that he confirmed what you said about his fixation on Jesus, it sounds like you know this guy well enough to predict where the friendship would likely have gone. That's backed up by his nasty little insinuation that you're an offended-snowflake for not wanting something you don't believe in pushed in your face. He has fallen for the victim complex that fundy Christians feed each other about everyone who disagrees with them being a whiny leftist picking on churches for displaying Nativity scenes. I think you would get very frustrated very quickly spending time with someone who sees you that way. His making a pattern of this behavior as you noted doesn't excuse him; it means he's an emotionally-draining person to spend your time with.

 

How can anyone be so pig-headed and thick-skulled as to refuse to make the small sacrifice of not continually talking about their religion around someone who doesn't share that religion, even to save a close friendship?

[sdelsolray]

8 hours ago, skysoar15 said:

My words from the conversation:

Me: "I know not expecting you to talk Christ would be like expecting water not to be wet." (knowing him well enough to say that).

He said, "Pretty much."

I told him, "I'm not sure how much longer this friendship can last with us seeing things so differently. This friendship was started on Jesus."

He said: "I want you the way you are now, bro."

I told him, "I know you. You say you want me now, but what you really want is for me to come back to the guy I was. I can't do that."

He finally said, "Well, Jesus is a big part of my life, and if that offends you then I'm sorry but I won't tone down anything just to make you feel more comfortable."

I told him, "Well, I guess that's just the way it is."

 

(The conversation basically ended there.)

 

To be fair, he is one of the more self-centered Christians.

Many of my other Christian friends would and have tried to just spend time with me without forcing it down my throats.

My only issue with them is that I know eventually they would try to win me back or get frustrated trying.

 

I know some of you would say, "Just keep them in your life and see what happens."

With some friends I may be able to do that, but there's no way I will keep a good chunk of friends who believe that I am living a lie.

I'm getting to a point where I just don't care about how I come off to them. Be polite, sure, but beyond that...I'm losing the ability to care.

 

These friendships are inevitably doomed, so why not just let the truth come out and let it end faster on my terms?

I'd rather that happen than watch the friendships die slowly while seeing the disappointment in their faces over my life choices.

 

How do you define "friend"?  What makes up a friendship?

[skysoar15]

1.) I think a friend is somebody who encourages you to become better while supporting your passions and dreams.

2.) They will tell you how it is even if it means risking the friendship if you need to hear it.

3.) A friend is somebody you can approach without feeling judged.

 

Quite honestly, I'm still trying to figure out what friendship means.

Had no real friends growing up and in college, I got plugged into college ministry. 

I believed I had true friendships there...but I'm realizing that most of it was Jesus centered and thus on a faulty foundation.

I didn't know how to make friends growing up, but I have been a friend to enough people to know that the above 3 points are fairly accurate.

Taking off these Jesus blinders has been hard.

[Rounin]

I actually enjoyed reading "The Case for Christ" back when it was just a book, and I'm reading a similar book right now that a Christian friend recommended to me.

The major difference there is that I wished to challenge myself, and chose to buy and read those books.

 

In your case, it seems like your friend pressured you into doing something you didn't really want, whether intentionally or not. I think it's great that you made it clear to him where your boundaries lie. After all, all your friendships must by necessity include you.

[sdelsolray]

On 4/28/2017 at 7:32 PM, skysoar15 said:

1.) I think a friend is somebody who encourages you to become better while supporting your passions and dreams.

2.) They will tell you how it is even if it means risking the friendship if you need to hear it.

3.) A friend is somebody you can approach without feeling judged.

 

Quite honestly, I'm still trying to figure out what friendship means.

Had no real friends growing up and in college, I got plugged into college ministry. 

I believed I had true friendships there...but I'm realizing that most of it was Jesus centered and thus on a faulty foundation.

I didn't know how to make friends growing up, but I have been a friend to enough people to know that the above 3 points are fairly accurate.

Taking off these Jesus blinders has been hard.

 

You are way ahead of yourself intellectually.  Works on getting your emotions to catch up.  Intellectual and emotional balance is healthy.