Christians: Why would an all-good God base our salvation from Hell on whether or not we believe in a 2,000-year-old supernatural story?

[Stranger]

 

 

Stranger, I understand there are Muslims who believe that John 16:7-15 is Jesus speaking about sending Mohammed to the world.  In the context of John, I think this is a reference to the holy spirit.  But in considering your responses about immediate and later fulfillment of prophecy in relation to Isaiah 7:14, how can you be certain that there was not a hidden message or double-fulfillment for John 16:7-15?

 

⁷ Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Advocate^[a] will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. ⁸ And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong about^[b] sin and righteousness and judgment: ⁹ about sin, because they do not believe in me; ¹⁰ about righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer; ¹¹ about judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned. ¹² “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. ¹³ When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. ¹⁴ He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. ¹⁵ All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

 

Muslims change many things in the Bible.   

 

This is not a prophecy from Old Testament prophets.   This is a prophecy of the coming of the Holy Ghost.    That He has come in (Acts 2) is clear.  That He continues to indwell, and fill the lives of believers is clear also.   So there are future implications until the time appointed by God for the Church to be removed.   

 

That these verses speak to mohammed  is just another lie.

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

Lol yeh sure if ya wanna turn a blind eye. Come on surely you can agree there should be tons of evidence left behind. Your just a wuss. There is nor evidence and you know it.

 

DB

 

As I said, everything about the exodus was miraculous.    God miraculously provided.  God hid the body of Moses.   There is no need for a 'ton of evidence'.

 

Stranger

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Well the bible doesnt say that God hide the post holes, the broken pottery over 40 years. The shit holes they must have dug, the artifacts that must have been left behind. This wasn't a time of faith. God was showing his power and what he could do. So show me! Show me where God proved himself! Otherwise you are just believing in Alice in Wonderland.

 

DB

[Margee]

 

 

Well, what brought the veil off your eyes?

 

Stranger

 

 

 

The silly bible itself.

[Realist]

 

 

The silly bible itself.

.... nothing brought the veil off his eyes Margee ... like many of us here he has grown up from birth with indoctrination and brainwash.

 

When born into a fundie religion it is very very hard to ever find the truth from there. Daily indoctrination as a child IS an evil thing! If your ruler has 13 inches to the foot you will always go through life trying to make things fit even though it does NOT make sense!

[Stranger]

 

Well the bible doesnt say that God hide the post holes, the broken pottery over 40 years. The shit holes they must have dug, the artifacts that must have been left behind. This wasn't a time of faith. God was showing his power and what he could do. So show me! Show me where God proved himself! Otherwise you are just believing in Alice in Wonderland.

 

DB

 

I don't need to show you scientific evidence.  I show the book of Exodus.   You will see God proved Himself.

 

No, not Science and Wonderland.    God.   

 

Stranger

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

I don't need to show you scientific evidence.  I show the book of Exodus.   You will see God proved Himself.

 

No, not Science and Wonderland.    God.   

 

Stranger

 

Inadmissible, due to circularity.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

.... nothing brought the veil off his eyes Margee ... like many of us here he has grown up from birth with indoctrination and brainwash.

 

When born into a fundie religion it is very very hard to ever find the truth from there. Daily indoctrination as a child IS an evil thing! If your ruler has 13 inches to the foot you will always go through life trying to make things fit even though it does NOT make sense!

Exactly.  It's like being taught that the only formula you will ever need is (2xL) + (2xW) and then getting an exam with triangles and trapezoids on it.  You can still attempt to apply the formula; but unless the problem calls for the perimeter of a rectangle, you're fucked.

[LogicalFallacy]

 

 

As I said, everything about the exodus was miraculous.    God miraculously provided.  God hid the body of Moses.   There is no need for a 'ton of evidence'.

 

Stranger

 

Dear lurkers,

 

As per usual Stranger makes unfounded assertions and insists that magic is responsible for the Exodus.

 

How much magic is required you ask?

 

I'm going to hit you with some mathematical problems - these are quick figures, and probably at the lower end of what would be required so I may have to update with recalculated figures:

 

Noah's Flood: In order to flood the world to cover Everest by 15 cubits would require 4.1 BILLION cubic kilometres of water. The current total estimated water on earth is 1.3 Billion km3. So you 1) need to find and extra 3 billion km3 of water, 2) Stop earths crust from collapsing under the weight of all that water, 3) Have somewhere for all that water to go - we should be able to find 3 Billion km3 of water hidden somewhere.

 

Exodus:

 

Approximate 2-3 million people to feed and water, plus MUCH livestock.

 

Food:
According to the Quartermaster General of the Army, it is calculated that Moses would have needed 1500 tons of food each day to feed the Israelites. To bring that much food each day, two freight trains, each a mile long, would be required.

Wood for cooking and warmth. This would take 4000 tons of wood and a few more freight trains, each a mile long, just for one day.... they are in a desert.... with no trees!

 

Water:

They would have to have water. If they only had enough to drink, cook and wash a few dishes, it would take 11,000,000 gallons each day...and a freight train with tank cars, 3 miles long, just to bring water!

 

You still haven't accounted for each cattle beast drinking 120 litres a day in the desert! Allowing for 30,000 cattle for the whole people that's 951,000 gallons per day plus the feed needed for cattle and sheep... in the desert.

 

And before you get tempted to say "Water from the rock" go calculate the volume and pressure of running water required to fill the daily requirement! You stand in front of that pressure you'd be killed.... much less be able to gather the water before it drained into the sand.

But then, there is another problem. Each time they camped at the end of the day, a campground two-thirds the size of the state of Rhode Island was required; a total area of 750 square miles.  Think of it...this space just for nightly camping!

 

 

Both the flood and the exodus should have left a trace! It didn't. So on top of providing for the flood and exodus, Stranger must also believe that god hid all the evidence for such.. this would lead us to ask why? Why hide the truth then blame humanity for not accepting that truth?

 

 

I love maths.

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

 

I'm going to hit you with some mathematical problems - these are quick figures, and probably at the lower end of what would be required so I may have to update with recalculated figures:

 

Noah's Flood: In order to flood the world to cover Everest by 15 cubits would require 4.1 BILLION cubic kilometres of water. The current total estimated water on earth is 1.3 Billion km3. So you 1) need to find and extra 3 billion km3 of water, 2) Stop earths crust from collapsing under the weight of all that water, 3) Have somewhere for all that water to go - we should be able to find 3 Billion km3 of water hidden somewhere.

 

Exodus:

 

Approximate 2-3 million people to feed and water, plus MUCH livestock.

 

Food:
According to the Quartermaster General of the Army, it is calculated that Moses would have needed 1500 tons of food each day to feed the Israelites. To bring that much food each day, two freight trains, each a mile long, would be required.

Wood for cooking and warmth. This would take 4000 tons of wood and a few more freight trains, each a mile long, just for one day.... they are in a desert.... with no trees!

 

Water:

They would have to have water. If they only had enough to drink, cook and wash a few dishes, it would take 11,000,000 gallons each day...and a freight train with tank cars, 3 miles long, just to bring water!

 

You still haven't accounted for each cattle beast drinking 120 litres a day in the desert! Allowing for 30,000 cattle for the whole people that's 951,000 gallons per day plus the feed needed for cattle and sheep... in the desert.

But then, there is another problem. Each time they camped at the end of the day, a campground two-thirds the size of the state of Rhode Island was required; a total area of 750 square miles.  Think of it...this space just for nightly camping!

 

 

Both the flood and the exodus should have left a trace! It didn't.

 

And before you get tempted to say "Water from the rock" go calculate the volume and pressure of running water required to fill the daily requirement! You stand in front of that pressure you'd be killed.... much less be able to gather the water before it drained into the sand.

 

I love maths.

 

Great points, but don't be surprised if he brings up "manna," asserts "god done it," and assumes everything is answered just because he typed something.

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Faith that cannot be tested is faith that cannot be trusted.

[LogicalFallacy]

 

 

Great points, but don't be surprised if he brings up "manna," asserts "god done it," and assumes everything is answered just because he typed something.

 

 

 

I know.... which is why the post is not to Stranger.... actually reminds me to actually address it to the lurkers. Thanks.

 

Stanger has proved one thing in his time on this forum: Discussion with him is completely pointless.

 

I think I can state that as an objectively verified truth. You want evidence? There's 41 pages of it right here, plus two other threads he's engaging in!

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

 

I know.... which is why the post is not to Stranger.... actually reminds me to actually address it to the lurkers. Thanks.

 

Stanger has proved one thing in his time on this forum: Discussion with him is completely pointless.

 

I think I can state that as an objectively verified truth. You want evidence? There's 41 pages of it right here, plus two other threads he's engaging in!

 

Quite true. Logic is definitely not Stranger's forté. My 15 year old son has had far better reasoning skills than Stranger for several years now.

 

[bornagainathiest]

[Stranger]

 

 

My parents are God.

 

Stranger

[Realist]

 

 

My parents are God.

 

Stranger

 

He doesn't get that one either!! 

[nutrichuckles93]

 

 

He doesn't get that one either!! 

And I somehow thought he couldn't get more ridiculous. I was wrong again!

[Margee]

 

 

He doesn't get that one either!! 

 

Let's all bang our heads together!!

 

Stranger....your parents are Adam and Eve!!! 

 

[midniterider]

 

 

My parents are God.

 

Stranger

 

All three of em?

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

 

My parents are God.

 

Stranger

 

Wow. That is the epitome of stupidity.

 

[LogicalFallacy]

 

 

My parents are God.

 

Stranger

 

Good god... well they fucked up proper then didn't he.

 

Hang on... your parent is god, or your parents are gods? Might have gotten your singular and plurals mixed up.

 

Maybe its an asexual god hence the singular nature of God versus the plural nature of parents.

 

Guys maybe, just maybe, Stranger is fucking with us ya know? I mean this is either insanity territory, or boss troll territory.

[Margee]

 

 

Wow. That is the epitome of stupidity.

 

I got no more 'likes' today.....

[Margee]

 

 

Good god... well they fucked up proper then didn't he.

 

Hang on... your parent is god, or your parents are gods? Might have gotten your singular and plurals mixed up.

 

Maybe its an asexual god hence the singular nature of God versus the plural nature of parents.

 

Guys maybe, just maybe, Stranger is fucking with us ya know? I mean this is either insanity territory, or boss troll territory.

I've been thinking he is a troll for awhile now.....

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

 

All three of em?

 

I guess they had a threesome, but now I'm confused. If the Father and Jesus are both male, then the Holy Spirit would have to be his mother, but then how could a female Holy Spirit impregnate Mary?

 

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

Guys maybe, just maybe, Stranger is fucking with us ya know? I mean this is either insanity territory, or boss troll territory.

 

With his last post, I do have to wonder. I've seen plenty religious stupidity, but that one was beyond it all.