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Christians: Why would an all-good God base our salvation from Hell on whether or not we believe in a 2,000-year-old supernatural story?

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All children are taught.   

 

Did your parents teach you anything?    Was that brainwashing whatever it was they taught you and didn't teach you?

 

If the Bible is true and there is God and Christ, is it brainwashing to teach your children that?

 

In other words, Christians teaching their children about the Bible, God, and Christ is brainwashing to you because you assume it isn't true.

 

Stranger

 

It is wrong to demand they believe what you believe with regard to religion.

It is wrong to impose punishment/sanctions against a child for not believing what you believe.

It is wrong to teach a child to be afraid of God or Satan or other boogeymen.

 

Why? It's child abuse.

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All children are taught.   

 

Did your parents teach you anything?    Was that brainwashing whatever it was they taught you and didn't teach you?

 

If the Bible is true and there is God and Christ, is it brainwashing to teach your children that?

 

In other words, Christians teaching their children about the Bible, God, and Christ is brainwashing to you because you assume it isn't true.

 

Stranger

 

Notice how poster Stranger attempts to place the burden of proof upon poster Asterja to demonstrate that his beliefs are not true.  This is typical for a theist who pretends to "know" the truth.  On the other hand, poster Stranger has used the word "if" in regards to his own beliefs for perhaps the first time in his short time on this forum.  Impressive.  But yet again, he uses that "in other words" pivot, once again, to mischaracterize and attempt to create a strawman.  And, note his inability, or intentional refusal, to distinguish between teaching and brainwashing.

 

Put simply, and in context, it is poster Stranger who asserts the existence of his particular sky fairies and related religious dogma.  Whether by laziness, inability, cowardice, or something else, he is unable to support those mere assertions with anything other than more mere assertions.

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In the interests of scientific rigour I request that Ex-C regulars and lurkers refrain from praying to rival deities or resorting to anti-prayer magic of any sort until the end of the experimental period.  (We can always do that later.) :lol:

 

Powers down the Chaos Machine.

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The word used for young women of marrying age always speaks to a virgin in the Old Testament.

...

 

Mere assertion.  No actual evidence is provided to support this claim.

 

 

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Indeed the prophecy speaks to the people of its time, but also to a future time.    Which is why the term for virgin was used.

...

 

Mere assertion.  No actual evidence is provided to support this claim.

 

 

...

So you accept that it is a prophecy of it's time?  

 

 

An infantile attempt to try to force someone to "admit" poster Stranger's belief.  A demonstration of disingenuous behavior (LF's post was a hypothetical which assumed a prophecy for the purposes of discussion only).

 

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Is raising, teaching or otherwise instructing your child in the ways of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints brainwashing?

How about being raised a Muslim? Brainwashing?

Being raised a Scientologist?

 

(just because you assume these teachings aren't true?)

 

I don't know if I'd use the brainwashing as it refers to a radical change in one's belief. Once normal, now messed up.

 

So, being raised from birth as a Christian isn't brainwashing so much as a creating a dysfunctional emotional base.

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I come from a family of scientists.  If my dad said something like "If you put pennies in a dish, add some vinegar, and then sprinkle salt on it, the pennies will turn shiny," I didn't have to take his word for it.  I did the experiment, and the mixture removed the tarnish from the pennies.  If I was told that there was a lunar eclipse that evening, we went out in the back yard and watched it.  If I didn't know whether a resistor was 4.7 ohms or 47 ohms, I plugged the leads into the volt-ohmmeter and measured it.

 

 

That is a big, big "if."  The last time I checked, snakes did not talk and dead people stayed dead.  Literally everything I have experienced in my nearly 60 years of life points to the Bible being false, and to God and Christ being no more than fiction.

 

I dare you to make one of your prayers work, not in your indoctrinated imagination, but in my life.  I predict that you will fail totally.  You have 24 hours, ending at 7:15 p.m. on Monday, July 10, 2017.  If anything the least bit out-of-the-ordinary happens, I'll be delighted to announce it on the forum and then we can hash out what actually happened, and whether there's even a faint hope that your imaginary friend was responsible.

 

In the interests of scientific rigour I request that Ex-C regulars and lurkers refrain from praying to rival deities or resorting to anti-prayer magic of any sort until the end of the experimental period.  (We can always do that later.) :lol:

 

So, your parents taught you nothing.  OK.

 

My prayers won't work in your life.   

 

Stranger

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It is wrong to demand they believe what you believe with regard to religion.

It is wrong to impose punishment/sanctions against a child for not believing what you believe.

It is wrong to teach a child to be afraid of God or Satan or other boogeymen.

 

Why? It's child abuse.

 

Who says it is wrong to teach your children your beliefs?

 

What punishments or sanctions are you talking about?

 

The fear of the Lord is not being afraid of God.   Is that what your parents taught you?   Shame on them.

 

Stranger

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My prayers won't work in your life.   

 

Stranger

 

Why? You're supposed to pray for the lost sheep?

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Is raising, teaching or otherwise instructing your child in the ways of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints brainwashing?

How about being raised a Muslim? Brainwashing?

Being raised a Scientologist?

 

(just because you assume these teachings aren't true?)

 

I don't know if I'd use the brainwashing as it refers to a radical change in one's belief. Once normal, now messed up.

 

So, being raised from birth as a Christian isn't brainwashing so much as a creating a dysfunctional emotional base.

 

I don't care if islam teaches its children about islam.    I don't expect anything else from them.   So?

 

But, if something is true, is it brainwashing?      Or, if something is true, why is it dysfunctional?

 

Stranger

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Why? You're supposed to pray for the lost sheep?

 

First of all, give me the chapter and verse of what you are saying.

 

Second of all, I do pray for the lost.   But, not everyone who is not a Christian is lost.

 

Stranger

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So, your parents taught you nothing.  OK.

...

Stranger

Yet another mere assertion.  Poster Stranger has probably exceeded 250 mere assertions since becomming a member of this forum.  He's very proficient with them, as empty and shallow as they may be.  Note also the obvious vitriol poster Stranger directs at Astreja's parents, pretending her father's lesson about how to remove tarnish from a penny is a "nothing".

 

 

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My prayers won't work in your life.   

...

 

Even a broken clock is correct twice each day.

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Of course it's not brainwashing when christians do it.  It's only brainwashing when jews and mohammedans do it... and buddhists... and hindus... and those flower-loving wiccans...  But not christians; they're the only ones who don't brainwash their kids.

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I dare you to make one of your prayers work, not in your indoctrinated imagination, but in my life.  I predict that you will fail totally.  You have 24 hours, ending at 7:15 p.m. on Monday, July 10, 2017.  If anything the least bit out-of-the-ordinary happens, I'll be delighted to announce it on the forum and then we can hash out what actually happened, and whether there's even a faint hope that your imaginary friend was responsible.

 

In the interests of scientific rigour I request that Ex-C regulars and lurkers refrain from praying to rival deities or resorting to anti-prayer magic of any sort until the end of the experimental period.  (We can always do that later.) :lol:

Nobody pray for me at all.  I'll act as the control of this experiment.

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I don't care if islam teaches its children about islam.    I don't expect anything else from them.   So?

...

Note poster Stranger's disdain and hate for a competing religion and the lack of empathy for the children being exposed to that religion.  That likely comes from the tribalism and the "We're special" dogma of which he was indoctrinated.

 

 

...

But, if something is true, is it brainwashing?      Or, if something is true, why is it dysfunctional?

...

Poster Stranger's uses passive-aggressive behavior when he doesn't want to address others' opinions, statements or claims.  Again, this is evidence of lazy and cowardly behavior.

 

 

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Who says it is wrong to teach your children your beliefs?

 

What punishments or sanctions are you talking about?

 

The fear of the Lord is not being afraid of God.   Is that what your parents taught you?   Shame on them.

 

Stranger

 

If your beliefs cause fear, shame, guilt, yes, it's wrong to teach them that. I didn't like it as an adult. Imagine how magnified your fear of God, Satan, Hell might be if you're raised that way. Ask some others here about their psycho religious upbringing.

 

Punishments for a child when they start thinking for themselves and question Christianity. Or even deny it. Will it be ok if your children decide not to believe in Jesus?

 

No, my parents taught me that religious people rely on something that isn't there, other than their own mind. They were atheist/agnostic. The church I attended as an adult actually instilled some fear and guilt but I made it go away.

 

 

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So, your parents taught you nothing.  OK.

 

That is *not* what I said.  I quite obviously learned many useful skills from my parents (chemistry, astronomy and electronics in my example, along with gardening, carpentry, baking, sewing, and how to operate audiovisual equipment).  Fortunately they did not teach me how to worship a mythical zombie rabbi from the eastern Mediterranean region.

 

My prayers won't work in your life.

 

Aw, giving up so soon?  Your forfeit of the challenge is noted.

 

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I don't care if islam teaches its children about islam.    I don't expect anything else from them.   So?

 

But, if something is true, is it brainwashing?      Or, if something is true, why is it dysfunctional?

 

Stranger

 

 

 

But Christianity is dysfunctional bullshit. It's not true and it causes people to be fearful, guilty and shamed. Sinner mentality. Ashamed when they do or think something normal in society that is wrong in the bible. That's silly.

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" My prayers won't work in your life.  "

 

So all things are not necessarily possible with God? Losing faith? :)

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So, your parents taught you nothing.  OK.

 

My prayers won't work in your life.   

 

Stranger

How can you possibly know where prayers will work.  I've met a lot of Godly people S, but none making this claim. 

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I don't care if islam teaches its children about islam.    I don't expect anything else from them.   So?

 

But, if something is true, is it brainwashing?      Or, if something is true, why is it dysfunctional?

 

Stranger

 

If something is true and yet demands that it be taught as true, then that is brainwashing.

 

If something is false and yet demands that it be taught as true, then that is brainwashing.

 

Anything, whether true or false, that demands that it be taught as true, is brainwashing.

 

 

 https://www.openbible.info/topics/teaching_children ...?  

 

The Bible may or may not be true, but so long as it demands that it be taught as true then it locks all those who are taught it as true into an unbreakable, multi-generational cycle of brainwashing.

 

They end up being unable to question it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The word used for young women of marrying age always speaks to a virgin in the Old Testament.

 

Bald assertion. Back this statement up. In Aramaic there is a word for virgin - betulah. Almah on the other hand is as you state is a young woman of marrying age. Most likely almah's would be virgins, since back in those days being unmarried, not a virgin, and an almah was a death sentence.

 

This is important in the context of the 'prophesy' - the fact the word almah is used indicates that the writer didn't actually expect a "virgin conception" but rather that a young woman of marrying age would conceive - using the only way to conceive in those days. Trying to say that Isaiah 7:14 is literally saying a virgin will conceive without intervention from a man is perverting the context.

 

 

Indeed the prophecy speaks to the people of its time, but also to a future time.    Which is why the term for virgin was used.

 

Now you have an issue here - if you want to hold to your near and future fulfillment that means there have been TWO virgin births in history. Do you accept this?

 

And again, no the term for virgin is "betulah". The word used is almah and means young woman. Don't go changing definitions to suit your fancy - that's called perversion... which ironically is what is being discussed.

 

 

So you accept that it is a prophecy of it's time?  

 

Only you would try this dishonest shit. Seriously what is more likely...

 

1) I accept the prophesy as true for its time or

2) I am using the phrase "prophesy" in relation to Isaiah for conversational convenience? 

 

(Edit - Haha, I just read Sdelsolray's post which picked up this very thing! I requote Sdelsolray here for effect "An infantile attempt to try to force someone to "admit" poster Stranger's belief.  A demonstration of disingenuous behavior (LF's post was a hypothetical which assumed a prophecy for the purposes of discussion only)." )

 

Once again, only Stranger would try this shit out on people that he must know by now don't fall for this shit... and its shit Stranger, you are either intellectually retarded, or blatantly dishonest.

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Mere assertion.  No actual evidence is provided to support this claim.

 

Mere assertion.  No actual evidence is provided to support this claim.

 

An infantile attempt to try to force someone to "admit" poster Stranger's belief.  A demonstration of disingenuous behavior (LF's post was a hypothetical which assumed a prophecy for the purposes of discussion only).

 

 

Bloody Oath! You hit the nail on the head here!

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First of all, give me the chapter and verse of what you are saying.

 

Luke 15:1-32 ESV / 

Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.” So he told them this parable: “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing...

 

Matthew 5:44 ESV / 

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

 

Romans 10:1-4 ESV / 

Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

So here we have a few versus that exhort praying for the unbeliever.

 

 

Second of all, I do pray for the lost.   But, not everyone who is not a Christian is lost.

 

Convenient - does that mean you can decide not to pray for us?

 

And care to explain what you mean by "not everyone who is not a christian is lost"? So can we be saved even if we are not a christian? 

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Nobody pray for me at all.  I'll act as the control of this experiment.

Sorry, but I think I ruined this. Kinda... Sorta...

 

I couldn't help it. It just kinda happened. I accidentally wished you well in this endeavor just because I read it.

 

It was something along the lines of, 'Don't ever think of a floating, purple elephant"!

 

See?!? You just thought of a floating, purple elephant, didn't you?

 

So yeah -- I kinda prayed. 

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How can you possibly know where prayers will work.  I've met a lot of Godly people S, but none making this claim. 

Perhaps you've been mistaken about those whom you've met up to this point and Stranger is literally THE very first Godly person you've ever encountered? 

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