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Lyra

Christians: Why would an all-good God base our salvation from Hell on whether or not we believe in a 2,000-year-old supernatural story?

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One can have questions about the Bible and not question the Bible.   

 

I see I was given a requirement to prove I question something in the Bible.   I have till page 50.  But that ain't going to happen.  

 

If that requirement remains, there is no need for me to continue.

 

If so, it has been a pleasure.

 

Stranger

 

 

No need to wait till page 50.   I will never question what the Bible says.

 

It's been a pleasure.

 

Stranger

 

I could be wrong, but it seems poster Stranger is ready to take his marbled nonsense and go away.

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I could be wrong, but it seems poster Stranger is ready to take his marbled nonsense and go away.

 

Cue song line: "What a feeling, beings believing!"

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I could be wrong, but it seems poster Stranger is ready to take his marbled nonsense and go away.

 

I hope you're right. A comedian who keeps telling the same tired old jokes over and over again just isn't funny anymore. ;)

 

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So, your parents taught you nothing.  OK.

 

My prayers won't work in your life.   

 

Stranger

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

End3

 

How can you possibly know where prayers will work.  I've met a lot of Godly people S, but none making this claim. 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

End,

 

Now that Stranger's skedaddled he won't be answering your question.

 

But I can do it for him, if you'd like.

 

He's already told me how he can know things for absolute certain - without any need for evidence.

 

Please lmk.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA. 

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Guest Ann

Wow! Discovered this thread today. Feelings I cannot describe...

Ex-christian community......:clap:

 

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On 6/5/2017 at 7:19 AM, OrdinaryClay said:

Lyra, You confuse your disbelief of the supernatural with your judgments of God's moral character. By muddling the two together you have a form of circular reasoning. IOW, you justify the "rediculousness" of it all because the supernatural nature of God does not exist. If you assume, just for arguments sake, that Christ is who He said He is, then it puts the situation in a different light.

 

Let me make a comment on item 4, your view is strictly self centered. You are basically saying that only your feelings matter and that the feelings of the person receiving the mercy do not matter. For example, the person receiving the mercy has a father also.There are many, many non-Christians who believe that selflessness is a high morality. 

Moral? What is moral about the xtian “god”? A genocidal, ego maniac? That’s moral? No the “god” you xtians invented is about as moral as Vlad Tsepesh. 

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I'm not a christian, but my theory is that a monotheistic god has no other god friends to have adventures with so he gets a little neurotic and weird about what the little humans do and think. he needs god friends so he can get his own life.

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On 7/27/2018 at 4:05 PM, Aries256 said:

Moral? What is moral about the xtian “god”? A genocidal, ego maniac? That’s moral? No the “god” you xtians invented is about as moral as Vlad Tsepesh. 

 

What's even more interesting is most Christians' values actually are diametrically opposed to their stated religion. Here are some standard conservative christian values:

 

1. Self-reliance. This is not supported by Christianity which teaches you to be obedient to and dependent on biblegod.

 

2. Self-defense. "Turn the other cheek". I hardly need to add to that.

 

3. Family values. Jesus has no family. No wife. No children. Doesn't seem to give a shit about his mother or really any families at all. He also says he comes to divide families, which as those of us with families where some of us are Christian and some are not, is self-evidently true.

 

4. Democracy. It shouldn't be hard to see how democracy and "follow my list of obsessive commands" don't go together.

 

5. Freedom. The only freedom a Christian has is the freedom to renounce their freedom. This definitely is not a god they can reject without a consequence. So... not free.

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On 10/20/2018 at 7:20 PM, VerbosityCat said:

 

What's even more interesting is most Christians' values actually are diametrically opposed to their stated religion. Here are some standard conservative christian values:

 

1. Self-reliance. This is not supported by Christianity which teaches you to be obedient to and dependent on biblegod.

 

2. Self-defense. "Turn the other cheek". I hardly need to add to that.

 

3. Family values. Jesus has no family. No wife. No children. Doesn't seem to give a shit about his mother or really any families at all. He also says he comes to divide families, which as those of us with families where some of us are Christian and some are not, is self-evidently true.

 

4. Democracy. It shouldn't be hard to see how democracy and "follow my list of obsessive commands" don't go together.

 

5. Freedom. The only freedom a Christian has is the freedom to renounce their freedom. This definitely is not a god they can reject without a consequence. So... not free.

 

You know? You just said what I have struggled to put into words since my deconversion. Your post covers one of the "kernels of doubt" that we've talked about on this forum before. I am in the "bible beltish" part of the South in the US and am surrounded by the types of the conservatives that espouse the values you mentioned. Nothing wrong with them, of course, but you are SO correct that they don't really match up with the bible and what Jesus taught.  Just own your values, stop getting Jesus mixed in with them. Where I live, you'd think taxes were straight from the pit of hell. The more I thought about this "hatred of having some money taken," the more I realized (at the time, still Christian) that I was serving "the wrong master," or living for money.

 

That's what did it for me. I started thinking to myself, "I mean, apparently I need to let everyone else deal with their own problems. It's just that Jesus wants me to care for those who need it, who are in poverty." Or "Why do I have such a problem with taxes? I live in a civilized (most days) society, we need roads and police, and there ARE people who are working their butts off and can't make ends meet." or  "So many people I know are so harsh on gay people, but then turn around and celebrate all these second marriages right after divorce, thought God wasn't okay with that either." I started realizing that maybe not all conservative values were compatible with scripture, which led to me feeling pretty duped. I thought at first that surely, since god is never wrong, that perhaps I needed to reexamine various political values and adjust accordingly. But that's when I started noticing how much I'd rather hang out with "heathen" non believers because they were so much less judgmental and, most times, so much more giving. 

 

I'm fairly moderate now, but ask my liberal friends and they'd swear I'm a conservative, ask my conservative friends and I'm a flamin liberal. :P
 

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5 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

You know? You just said what I have struggled to put into words since my deconversion. Your post covers one of the "kernels of doubt" that we've talked about on this forum before. I am in the "bible beltish" part of the South in the US and am surrounded by the types of the conservatives that espouse the values you mentioned. Nothing wrong with them, of course, but you are SO correct that they don't really match up with the bible and what Jesus taught.  Just own your values, stop getting Jesus mixed in with them. Where I live, you'd think taxes were straight from the pit of hell. The more I thought about this "hatred of having some money taken," the more I realized (at the time, still Christian) that I was serving "the wrong master," or living for money.

 

That's what did it for me. I started thinking to myself, "I mean, apparently I need to let everyone else deal with their own problems. It's just that Jesus wants me to care for those who need it, who are in poverty." Or "Why do I have such a problem with taxes? I live in a civilized (most days) society, we need roads and police, and there ARE people who are working their butts off and can't make ends meet." or  "So many people I know are so harsh on gay people, but then turn around and celebrate all these second marriages right after divorce, thought God wasn't okay with that either." I started realizing that maybe not all conservative values were compatible with scripture, which led to me feeling pretty duped. I thought at first that surely, since god is never wrong, that perhaps I needed to reexamine various political values and adjust accordingly. But that's when I started noticing how much I'd rather hang out with "heathen" non believers because they were so much less judgmental and, most times, so much more giving. 

 

I'm fairly moderate now, but ask my liberal friends and they'd swear I'm a conservative, ask my conservative friends and I'm a flamin liberal. :P
 

 

Yep, pretty much. :)

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On 10/22/2018 at 7:23 PM, VerbosityCat said:

But that's when I started noticing how much I'd rather hang out with "heathen" non believers because they were so much less judgmental and, most times, so much more giving. 

 

Jesus felt the same way; He ate and drank with people who were deemed "less than". SOME religionists can be pains in the neck. They can be quite pharasaical and they can  cause more harm than good.

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16 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

 

Jesus felt the same way; He ate and drank with people who were deemed "less than". SOME religionists can be pains in the neck. They can be quite pharasaical and they can  cause more harm than good.

Kinda like you?

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5 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Kinda like you?

Hardy har har. 😛

 

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12 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Kinda like you?

 

.... Yep! They do not even see the truth when leveled at them! That's indoctrination at its best! 😢

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10 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

Hardy har har. 😛

 

Laugh now.  Hell awaits. 

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On 11/20/2018 at 5:46 PM, Thumbelina said:

Hardy har har. 😛

 

you are so self important aren't you!

 

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On 6/14/2017 at 9:59 PM, Stranger said:

 

I agree.

 

Stranger

 

On 6/14/2017 at 9:59 PM, Stranger said:

 

I agree.

 

Stranger

This assumes logic and faith are at odds. Biblical "faith" is logical.

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2 hours ago, LuthAMF said:

Biblical "faith" is logical

Wow.  Yet another unfounded assertion.  

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4 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Wow.  Yet another unfounded assertion.  

If you're going to quote me, use the entire quote. It's not like I wrote 20 paragraphs. 

But I find it odd that you overlook floriduh's own unfounded assertion that 

"Logic will never defeat faith."

 

Yes, The "faith" of scripture requires one to base it upon ascertainable fact and not the blind wish you are so fond of making it.

 

I'm certain this has been covered here ad nauseam.  Being new here, care to point me to the proper forum or do you need another go-round here? Or there is a search feature and I could ignore you but that's not nice nor fair. 

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image.thumb.png.0025c64d101caad3ff1fc89f10ff8f79.png

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The above is a screenshot of dictionary.com

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31 minutes ago, MOHO said:

The above is a screenshot of dictionary.com

Fantastic. And you pick out the one secondary definition to suit your own bias.

 

Biblical faith is never based upon a blind nothingness. It has an object. You know, like the first definition you ignored.

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1 hour ago, LuthAMF said:

the blind wish you are so fond of making it.

Wow.  Yet another unfounded assertion. 

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39 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

Fantastic. And you pick out the one secondary definition to suit your own bias.

 

Biblical faith is never based upon a blind nothingness. It has an object. You know, like the first definition you ignored.

 

Biblical faith is based on  hope against hope that there is an aflert-life and a being that will take care of you there - despite very little evidence that either exists and plenty that they do not. To prop up my assertion please refer to Richard Carrier, Richard Dawkins, Bart Ehrman, Christopher Hitchens.

 

As for the first definition of faith in the screenshot, confidence in people or a thing would, hopefully, be the result of prier performance of said person or thing. My experience, and that of others who's extimonies I have read, indicates, very strongly, that having faith in a god and prayer and Christianity ,or any religion for that matter, would be contrary to definition #1.

 

Yes, I agree with you that Biblical faith has on object. That object is to dupe the masses into following an empty promise so that the purveyors of said duping can reap the rewards in money, power, and having so much control over the flock that they can have sex with anyone they wish and not be outed. 

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34 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Wow.  Yet another unfounded assertion. 

"Logic will never defeat faith."

 

Wow. Yet another unfounded assertion. From one of your own. Deal with him too, please. I hate double standard.

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